Reply With QuoteI liked it until I read "52mm lug to lug"
I am subscribing to this
Paolo, an Italian Pilot and marksman, has developed his own version of what he considers as the "perfect" pilots watch, which looks very nice to me. Totally based on the A13-A specification of aircraft clock.
It uses the ETA 251.264 movement, with central minute counter. Like the Lemania 5100, but quartz.
Think of a pilot-style EZM1, on a budget. Very clean design, no date, stealth branding, and imho very cool.
I have posted about little links to it before, but as of today the project is live and he is collecting (I think quite fast) the 70 or so €50 deposits he requires to start production.
Thought you guys would like to know.
All the best
Dave
ps - Please satisfy yourselves as to the trustworthiness of this project if you are thinking of going for it. I am getting one, and I am quite happy with the €50 deposit punt, but you need to make your own judgements.
I liked it until I read "52mm lug to lug"
Yes, I thought that, but he posted some photos showing how well turned down the lugs are, and it looks okay.
If the watch is rested on the back, the 4 lugs are on the table and the caseback is a couple of mm above.
Willing to give it a go.
D
Thanks for sharing this project.. the watch looks amazing, design is there.. also, the guy seems to be genuine about building a quality product.. shame it's a quartz, but it's probably more historically accurate! change shy of 800€, is it worthy that much?
Hell yes, i'm italian so i'm biased
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I think it looks lovely.
I'm goingo to get roasted for this but what are the pushers for on this type of watch?
Its a central chronograph, they are start/stop and reset pushers.Originally Posted by SteveR
It is a chronograph
The two hands with the lollipops on are a stopwatch measuring seconds (plain hand) and minutes (hand with the wings on the pointer).
So you can measure a 1-hr event as well as tell the time.
The pushers are for start/stop and reset.
Dave
Interesting! I just assumed chronograph sale had the subdials. This makes it even cooler!
As a long-time advocate of the Precista Mission Timer, I was very interested in this until I saw the price. It costs about twice as much as it should in my opinion.
Not just historically!
It is say 30 times more accurate in keeping you informed about time.
Thanks Sweets, I have signed up and paid.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 27th February 2017 at 21:46.
Hopefully enough will be pre ordered
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...imited-edition
Last edited by David@; 27th February 2017 at 21:57.
LoL yes, i care more about historical accuracy than time accuracy :)
So what do we think about price? is it worth 800€?
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Very reliable and robust:
http://www.eta.ch/index.php?id=248&L=2
That's a lot of money for what is essentially a Kickstarter quartz watch. Looks good, but …
Do you think today's crop of main Swiss main stream luxury watches with their automated mass produced mechanical 7750 worth several k euros??
At least this one is cool and unique.
Why not have a look first at what this movement actually is and at what is available with the ETA 251.264 movement?!
Chucking 'quartz' on a heap is even more ignorant than doing so with balance spring ones.
So i take it as your sarcasm actually means yes! thank you :)
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If you would compare the movement on a quality level, then this movement is obviously more state of the horology than the in reality rather pedestrian 7750 and imo better made too than the more basic 7750 variants.
As you can find very easily, the same movement even comes in a COSC certified variant that is as accurate per year as the 7750 per day.
You can also look at it as the more modern ETA variant of the Seiko 7A28.
Objectively: Just have a look at the number of jewels used.
As to price I think just about ALL watches beyond the utilitarian ones are way overpriced today. Some a LOT more than others. So it is more of a relative thing in a market that has gone nuts.
You decide.
You can also get yourself a Seiko Sportura GPS for it.
No one's chucking quartz on a heap. I have plenty of quartz costing more than this, but it's an unknown watchmaker asking an awful lot of money for a watch of unknown quality.
Just been comparing prices of movements. One American supplier for example was selling this ETA for $93 and the Miyota 9015 found used by lots of microbrands for $80
I agree.
You could also buy a vintage Omega with 1675 caliber inside which is a variant of the same quartz movement.
For the moment though, I am in as I support these initiatives. If things turn out to be less than painted I will cut my losses. You win some, you learn some.
thanks for all the clarifications on the matter.. i found it very helpful!
i forgot to mention that i'm new, totally new to this world of watches, but that makes me feel like i want to know more.
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I am ambivalent about the price.
The guy has started from scratch and modelled and designed and come up with something.
He has the most dial area that he can muster from the 42mm diameter, managed to put in a large step-dial to keep the raised numeration of the original clock, got sapphire, shrouded pump pushers, a quality movement, an engraved crown, engraved back, 100m WR and a commendable sense of style.
He has never done it before and I am not in the least surprised that it is €650 plus tax. If it had come in at less than €500 it would have been a miracle. Especially as Paolo is an oil and gas engineer, used to engineering up to a standard before engineering down to a price.
Considering what Breitling want to charge you for the same movement in their quartz chronos, it is a total bargain.
Yes, Eddie would charge less. But despite waiting a few years, Eddie hasn't made his mission timer. More's the pity.
Have a look at this
I reckon Paolo's creation looks pretty good against these two classics.
Dave
A shameless 2k more for a variety of also-ran sub register designs.
It does underline that the movement is quite good if the use by Omega in the Seamaster was not enough of a pointer.
It also underlines the price madness.
The price does remain a relative thing though as always. The price development of the market really is beyond silly:
I have been given a fake Swiss holy watch by a lover. It is a veryVERY good copy using good quality materials, of a highly complicated composite case design. It is all spot on and the chronograph movement is totally functional.
It is not my style to wear fake but that is not the point. The point is that it cost her less than 4% of the original and returns the makers plus retail chain a nice profit.
Bugger R&D; nobody believes THAT anymore! WHAT development needs be researched??? The only ones pushing anything horological forward are the two Japanese big ones.
Btw. the sister of same lover has a relation with a Moroccan leather ware wholesaler. His cost price of a very nice leather jacket also makes one cry. Even without looking at Hermes prices for pretty much the same and that is made in the third world too.
Same as the Swiss assembled, oops made, horology.
Owwww how cool!!!! My SDGA just went in radio signal seach mode and displays it in the format of the map of Europe. It is now searching for the UK station and will in a moment switch to the German station. I am out of reach now so in 2 hours it will try again. By Jove that is .. euhm... stunning technology.
You can buy one of those too used for the same money.*
All is relative, pick your choice.
* p.s. Oops no you can't. Even this jap crap digital tech has gone up beyond that used!!!
Last edited by Huertecilla; 28th February 2017 at 02:19.
I agree. Talking of quality, where is this watch going to be made?
Looks excellent, great wee movement and a nicely built case with some great attention to detail/function. I wish him well and ditto the comments on Eddies Mission Timer project; one I'd have loved to have seen but alas not to be.
I can find no information about where this watch is going to be manufactured. In the absence of any such details, one has to assume that it is going to be made in China.
The dial (at 6) and the cardboard "spark plug" type tube both clearly state "Made in Italy".
Paolo has also stated (in the W&W interview he did) that movement modifications (removal of 2 stepper motors) are taking place in Milan.
I think it is therefore safe to assume that none of this is happening in China.
But I will ask him, certainly.
D
If it's truly made in italy, i'm in!
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Fair enough.
I have sent Paolo a message asking, and I will post here what his response is, if and when I get one.
Dave
So, Paolo has responded very quickly. Every component is from Italy or Switzerland bar 2, the crystal and the hands. The domed sapphire crystal has required a new mold and the custom hands have been challenging, and Paolo struggled to get European suppliers to quote. So those are coming from the far east, but everything else is European, as is the final assembly.
Dave
Thanks Dave. That helps to explain the price and makes it more tempting.
Last edited by Timelord; 6th March 2017 at 08:41.
is there any way i can contact this Paolo? because European sounds better than Chinese, but not better than Italian.. and i know a lot of business man in italy manufacture their product in countries like Bulgaria and others because of the cheap labour, so i'd like some more info from the man himself if possible, thank you :)
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You can contact Paolo here ,
info@a-13a.com
Will do, thank you :)
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Would be good to hear any feed back you revive from Paolo!. I have followed the project for a while and he seems like a genuine and decent man... a little out off by the price but still seriously considering buying into his dream.
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Very nice. And this is the idea I always had for a pilot chronograph.
And a very good price, ..., for an auto movement.
Sorry. Too expensive to be a quartz experiment from an enthusiast.
To get a centre chronograph minute hand you either need a new version of the defunct 5100/13xx family (like the Breguet 584Q) or you need to start tinkering with a 7750 as Sinn did. Both would be beyond the reach of the 'amateur enthusiast'.
The movement is a good one. The price not unreasonable.
I'd imagine the price might come down after the initial run as he'll then be buying components etc in bulk rather than the limited amount of 75.
Steve
I am allright with you at this point (the nice movement).
But also it is reasonable to think that the center second complication is expensive when in an automatic movement. But not in a quartz movement.
Maybe I would pay up to 1500 (maybe more) for a Lemania 5100. But I would not pay more than 700 for a quartz one.
Anyway this amateur enthusiast has had a very, very good aesthetic idea. For me it has a perfect design.
So lets have a look at price.
The price is €793 inc tax, so Paolo is getting €650, not €800.
The tax is a pain to pay, but not his fault.
A little searching shows these movements are about €100, with nothing in terms of hands, crown and so forth.
A double-domed sapphire with AR this size will be at least €50 to buy off the shelf (if it were available), possibly considerably more.
Paolo has told me they made a new mold for this crystal, I suspect he is paying more.
The strap is €25.
So, could any of us get a custom 42mm, 100m WR case made and engraved, custom hands (4 of them) made and lumed, custom dial and chapter ring made, printed and lumed, all assembly including gaskets, spacers and fixings, and custom packaging for €475?
Not sure I could, and believe me, I have done my fair share of sourcing custom stuff for watches.
One of the most competetive new watches that uses this movement type, the Eterna Kontiki chrono, is starting on Chrono24 at about the same price (€763 from one seller, generally more), but this certainly benefits from mass manufacturing scale.
I know where I would prefer to spend my money. And I am
Dave
Good looking watch and an interesting project but just too big for me. I think this shows that you don't have to spend a fortune to own a well designed and interesting watch.
I made a mistake publishing the mail, i thought i would be doing anybody who's genuinely interested in the project would have appreciated it.. i apologised to Paolo and everything is back to normal
Last edited by scucivolo; 7th March 2017 at 00:47.
Latest pic from Paolo, enjoy!
Last edited by scucivolo; 7th March 2017 at 00:52.
The movement normally has the subdials but that would make the face more complex and less easy to read, it would also enforce a smaller dial as the subdials are at a relatively small PCD and it probably wouldn't look pleasing with subdials on a small PCD but with a large dial.Interesting! I just assumed chronograph sale had the subdials. This makes it even cooler!
The way it has been done means it is easy to read and obviously the aim has been to produce a clear/uncluttered face and make it as easy to read as possible.
After having several watches with the 251.262 movement(or variants of - including 2 of Eddie's PRS17Cs), I decided I needed to create one of my own and came up with this slightly modified Alpnach. It has a larger dial but does retain the subdials, but having the hands in white and red it is all very legible. It comes on a very nice bracelet.
40mm case(not inc. crown) with a 33mm dial.
This came in under £400 with the mods.
I agree with Sweets comments "Very clean design, no date, stealth branding, and imho very cool."
I do like the A-13A and would have one but it's just a bit pricey for what it is, especially as it is on a strap and not a bracelet.
Last edited by K300; 6th March 2017 at 18:05.
please feel free to ask for details, i'll try this time to be more discreet
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Last edited by scucivolo; 7th March 2017 at 00:51.
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