Jeweller wants to keep my warranty card for 6 months?

[W44NNE]

I agree Rolex should do a better job of moderating demand and supply but then I think the ceramic Daytona should just be priced at £12k as rrp and be done with it, which would decimate the grey market in it. I'm assuming I'm in a small group who would want Rolex to up their prices though...

Good job I'm known to them with several expensive previous purchases then Cliff. Oh, wait.

[cmcm3]

Good job I'm known to them with several expensive previous purchases then Cliff. Oh, wait.

Im sure, but I don't know DMR or whether they've been on the end of a kicking from Rolex recently or not. I agree your situation sucks (having introduced the new policy at the last minute) but am just making the point that ADs are not just doing it for the banter or because they hate people making a profit on watches (which clearly helps future sales) and whilst Rolex may claim not to interfere that's not really true when they find out where a particular watch came from - then they interfere big time. So basically I blame Rolex - but I also love Rolex so I'm not going to be mean about them! Can we not just do the "this is the guy who will be picking up the warranty card" jape?! Please!

[Griswold]

Well, having read this interesting thread right through I have to say firstly Wayne, I'm glad you still like your new watch after all the issues with DMR and some unwarranted stick from various members on here. I hope it continues to make you smile every time you put it on in spite of all that's gone before.

Your experiences though remind me of another hobby I pursue, Fly Fishing. There was a time when the Hardy held a similar 'status' in the fly fishing world as Rolex do in the watch world today. They weren't the best fly rods in the world, but the Hardy label had such prestige that their rods and reels were top of the list for many fly fishers, and something to be aspired to by others. Hardy rods and reels were never discounted, if you wanted one you paid MRP or went without. Dealers either maintained the status quo or lost their supply.

For myself, I went without and bought better rods, (Sage, Grays and Marcus Warwick, for anyone here who's into fly fishing), and reels, (Orvis and Ryobi - in fly fishing their principal object is to store the fly line and pretty much all fly reels will now do that so long as they are light and balance the rod in question).

Times change and Hardy rods and reels can be bought everywhere at discount. I now own a number of Hardy reels, but not rods - there are still better out there for the same money or less.

When Rolex change their stupid policies, (either directly or dealer imposed), stop deliberately restricting supply of what is after all a mass produced product and allow discounting I will certainly think about buying one as they do have a certain 'something', until then I'll spend MY money with less dictatorial enterprises.

Oh, and based on your experiences, Ill not consider DMR for anything.

[sean]

Rolex may claim not to interfere that's not really true when they find out where a particular watch came from - then they interfere big time.

Can you point to anything more on this? I do remember reading in the past that some shops lost their AD status because of discounting against Rolex's wishes (true?), all part of and parcel of controlling the distribution of product I suppose.

[RBear1981]

I would take the watch and suck it up. Yeah it's a pain in the dick but you know why they do it and unless your plan is in fact to sell it on (which it's not) then life goes on. You'll likely forget about for 6m til it pops up in your diary to collect. An I'd say there is a v low likelihood of them losing it, especially if this is their regular practice. I'd also say that if they did lose it they'd most likely do everything in their power to remedy the situation or ensure that you are appropriately compensated.


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[Haywood_Milton]

Rolex main agent status at DMR ended in part.

DMR closed certain stores.

[KavKav]

Well, having read this interesting thread right through I have to say firstly Wayne, I'm glad you still like your new watch after all the issues with DMR and some unwarranted stick from various members on here. I hope it continues to make you smile every time you put it on in spite of all that's gone before.

Your experiences though remind me of another hobby I pursue, Fly Fishing. There was a time when the Hardy held a similar 'status' in the fly fishing world as Rolex do in the watch world today. They weren't the best fly rods in the world, but the Hardy label had such prestige that their rods and reels were top of the list for many fly fishers, and something to be aspired to by others. Hardy rods and reels were never discounted, if you wanted one you paid MRP or went without. Dealers either maintained the status quo or lost their supply.

For myself, I went without and bought better rods, (Sage, Grays and Marcus Warwick, for anyone here who's into fly fishing), and reels, (Orvis and Ryobi - in fly fishing their principal object is to store the fly line and pretty much all fly reels will now do that so long as they are light and balance the rod in question).

Times change and Hardy rods and reels can be bought everywhere at discount. I now own a number of Hardy reels, but not rods - there are still better out there for the same money or less.

When Rolex change their stupid policies, (either directly or dealer imposed), stop deliberately restricting supply of what is after all a mass produced product and allow discounting I will certainly think about buying one as they do have a certain 'something', until then I'll spend MY money with less dictatorial enterprises.

Oh, and based on your experiences, Ill not consider DMR for anything.

VERY well said!!!!!!!!!!!

[paskinner]

Despite all the anger on this thread, no-one has explained how such a 'bad' company is rated as one of the worlds' too brands. They are probably doing something right .......and so must their dealers, because that is a crucial part of the brand.
Forum people such as us are a tiny group, and so are profiteers. Most people buy a watch and wear it for years.
What an odd idea......

[33JS]

Despite all the anger on this thread, no-one has explained how such a 'bad' company is rated as one of the worlds' too brands. They are probably doing something right .......and so must their dealers, because that is a crucial part of the brand.
Forum people such as us are a tiny group, and so are profiteers. Most people buy a watch and wear it for years.
What an odd idea......

I think 559 posts about a warranty card shows just how important the brand is. No-one would have given half a feck if it was most others...

[professorfail]

I think 559 posts about a warranty card shows just how important the brand is. No-one would have given half a feck if it was most others...

Not wading in again but just like to point out that no other brand's AD would insist on retaining warranty cards. And personally, regardless of brand, I want a full set. But yes agreed on how important they must see themselves. But each to their own.


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[ach5]

Apologies if the answer to this question is buried somewhere above, but are ADs in any other countries witholding warranty cards?

[Mr Pointy]

Well it seems this has now been taken up a notch. Over on PH a poster reports that in order to be allowed to buy an SD43 from Laings in Glasgow he actually had to sign a contract agreeing to not only the retention of the warranty card for 12 months but also that if he sells within 3 years he has to give the AD first refusal!

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...=187&t=1689447

[Stuart67]

Well it seems this has now been taken up a notch. Over on PH a poster reports that in order to be allowed to buy an SD43 from Laings in Glasgow he actually had to sign a contract agreeing to not only the retention of the warranty card for 12 months but also that if he sells within 3 years he has to give the AD first refusal!

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...=187&t=1689447

I don't see how they can possibly enforce such a contract. Would the customer have to return to the shop on the 3rd anniversary of the purchase to prove they were still in possession of the watch?

[ach5]

Well it seems this has now been taken up a notch. Over on PH a poster reports that in order to be allowed to buy an SD43 from Laings in Glasgow he actually had to sign a contract agreeing to not only the retention of the warranty card for 12 months but also that if he sells within 3 years he has to give the AD first refusal!

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...=187&t=1689447

I think this is getting outrageous and well out of hand. I feel the onus is on Rolex to stamp this out, irrespective of the overwhelming demand for their watches.

[crooky13]

I think this is getting outrageous and well out of hand. I feel the onus is on Rolex to stamp this out, irrespective of the overwhelming demand for their watches.

What's wrong with the first refusal request? The buyer seems happy to abide by it which apparently means he'll get new models quicker in the future. It's not hard to go to WF ask for a quote and then phone up Laing's to see if they'll match it. If they don't, you just sell to WF. That extra ten minutes isn't a big price to pay. The warranty card is the real pain as it effectively prevents a sale for 12 months.

[ach5]

What's wrong with the first refusal request? The buyer seems happy to abide by it which apparently means he'll get new models quicker in the future. It's not hard to go to WF ask for a quote and then phone up Laing's to see if they'll match it. If they don't, you just sell to WF. That extra ten minutes isn't a big price to pay. The warranty card is the real pain as it effectively prevents a sale for 12 months.

What's wrong is that buying a watch should not - ever - come with such conditions. It should very simply be paid for and you walk out with everything that Rolex intends. I feel the ADs have no right to stick their oars in like this. Have you ever met a poor AD? I was never an "AD" person and shun the fuss they make, always preferring to buy grey, and even more so with all this nonsense.

[crooky13]

I don't see how they can possibly enforce such a contract. Would the customer have to return to the shop on the 3rd anniversary of the purchase to prove they were still in possession of the watch?

I assume that they don't really care about enforcing the contract. They will just ask you to show the SD43 when you put your name down for the new Basel model you want in two years. If you have sold it without giving them first refusal, your name doesn't go on the list

[Kingstepper]

What's wrong is that buying a watch should not - ever - come with such conditions. It should very simply be paid for and you walk out with everything that Rolex intends. I feel the ADs have no right to stick their oars in like this. Have you ever met a poor AD? I was never an "AD" person and shun the fuss they make, always preferring to buy grey, and even more so with all this nonsense.

Their watch, they can set whatever (lawful) conditions they wish. No-one has a right to buy a watch.

If you're not happy, buy somewhere else (as you said you do/will).

[crazyp]

I wonder when buyers will have to swear fealty to Rolex

[paw3001]

Just don't buy and accept this silliness. It is only a chunky sub and nothing really special apart from marketing!


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[crooky13]

What's wrong is that buying a watch should not - ever - come with such conditions. It should very simply be paid for and you walk out with everything that Rolex intends. I feel the ADs have no right to stick their oars in like this. Have you ever met a poor AD? I was never an "AD" person and shun the fuss they make, always preferring to buy grey, and even more so with all this nonsense.

I don't really care for the wealth of an AD. I'm just saying that if I lived in a place where it was hard to get certain models at list, then I would be more inclined to agree to these conditions. I abide by them and I get the watch, and if I continue to abide by them will get more watches in the future. The lists for that AD will shorten and I will also get future watches quicker. It's the buyers decision. And if you don't like it then use a different AD, or buy at a premium from the grey market who sourced the watch from an AD that doesn't have these rules

[33JS]

I'm calling BS on this. Edinburgh store, same company let me walk out with the SD43 fully stickered and with warranty card.

[mtagrant]

I'm calling BS on this. Edinburgh store, same company let me walk out with the SD43 fully stickered and with warranty card.

Same from Parkhouse in Southampton which is the same group (and about to be renamed). No talk of warranty card retention, sticker removal or anything

[JasonM]

I wonder when buyers will have to swear fealty to Rolex

In a 'bend the wrist' kind of way?

[Kingstepper]

S### stirring by grey dealer?

[Arcam]

Just got the call today to pick mine up, I am going in on Saturday afternoon to collect and will report back any restrictions.

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[MFB Scotland]

I'm calling BS on this. Edinburgh store, same company let me walk out with the SD43 fully stickered and with warranty card.

The Glasgow and Edinburgh stores are completely separate businesses.

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[Mitch]

Their watch, they can set whatever (lawful) conditions they wish. No-one has a right to buy a watch.

If you're not happy, buy somewhere else (as you said you do/will).

I don't know where this idea came that traders have carte blanche to set any terms they want and if you buy on that basis then you have no redress.

That is not so. You cannot sign your consumer rights away.

If a trader sold on line and stated that if you bought you understood that distance selling laws did not apply to that item, do you think he can do that? Well he can't.

Whatever condition he tries to set it has to comply with consumer legislation, he is in breach otherwise and you cannot sign away your legal rights.

I think someone needs to lay a complaint with Trading Standards about a possible breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and quote from Part 1 of Schedule 2 of said Act (which lists probable unfair contract terms) particularly section 20..............



"20. A term which has the object or effect of excluding or hindering the consumer’s right to take legal action or exercise any other legal remedy, in particular by—

(b)unduly restricting the evidence available to the consumer",* (* In this case the warranty card and being able to prove you have legal remedy)




Mitch

[Kingstepper]

I don't know where this idea came that traders have carte blanche to set any terms they want and if you buy on that basis then you have no redress.

That is not so. You cannot sign your consumer rights away.

If a trader sold on line and stated that if you bought you understood that distance selling laws did not apply to that item, do you think he can do that? Well he can't.

Whatever condition he tries to set it has to comply with consumer legislation, he is in breach otherwise and you cannot sign away your legal rights.

I think someone needs to lay a complaint with Trading Standards about a possible breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and quote from Part 1 of Schedule 2 of said Act (which lists probable unfair contract terms) particularly section 20..............



"20. A term which has the object or effect of excluding or hindering the consumer’s right to take legal action or exercise any other legal remedy, in particular by—

(b)unduly restricting the evidence available to the consumer",* (* In this case the warranty card and being able to prove you have legal remedy)




Mitch

I did say "lawfull" conditions. A warranty (guarantee) will be in effect with or without a warranty card. Many items are sold w/o one after all.

[crazyp]

In a 'bend the wrist' kind of way?

I like what you did there

[paskinner]

I just bought a new Patek from my local AD. They were very polite and helpful but there was no question of them providing the watch on my terms . I couldn't collect it 'sealed' or without stickers. It was sized for my wrist and all the protective wrapping removed. Of course they can do that.
At heart, this whole thread is about people wanting to resell watches 'factory fresh'.

[Sparjar]

Rolex feudalism in full effect.

[Sparjar]

At heart, this whole thread is about people wanting to resell watches 'factory fresh'.

Do we really think that enslaving a couple punters who aren't best mates with wankerooonies at AD's will stop the professional grey market which is fed by the same AD's selling to those who they are mates with. No. They do this only to stop those who they don't want to profit from it. And Rolex doesn't mind it.

[robert75]

At heart, this whole thread is about people wanting to resell watches 'factory fresh'.

No it isn't

But if your soft enough to let a seller dictate to you the conditions you can buy something from them more fool you.

[33JS]

The Glasgow and Edinburgh stores are completely separate businesses.

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Are they not both owned by Michael Laing? If not, I didn't know that!

[Mitch]

I did say "lawfull" conditions. A warranty (guarantee) will be in effect with or without a warranty card. Many items are sold w/o one after all.

However, the Rolex is sold with a warranty card, which you will be asked for if you try and exercise your warranty rights. Withholding this card will hinder the consumer in exercising his rights and that condition of sale is forbidden under consumer rights legislation.

It is not sufficient for the trader to argue that if the consumer jumps through a load of other hoops he might eventually be able to exercise his rights. Rolex issue the card for this purpose and if the trader withholds it he is hindering the consumer.




Mitch

[proby24]

This is absurd.

I doubt you would see this is any other country. I can't imagine it happening in NY or Tokyo or Rome.

Great Britain, a nation of jobsworths.

[33JS]

I'm OK with this, to be honest.

It 'appears' some of the AD's have been speaking together and have compared names on lists, and between many of their own stores. What they 'seem' to have found is that the same names appear on these lists from one end of the UK to the other. Also, they 'seem' to know that some of those names are, albeit loosely, affiliated with known grey dealers.

So, some of the grey dealers are playing the game of swamping the lists early in order to charge US more cash for something we should be able to buy for RRP and legitimately as part of our hobby!

What would people suggest is a good or better way to deal with this? Just let the greys screw the lot of us over?

[paskinner]

No it isn't

But if your soft enough to let a seller dictate to you the conditions you can buy something from them more fool you.

Talk about an excessive sense of entitlement.Nobody has to sell you anything.

[jaytip]

What would people suggest is a good or better way to deal with this? Just let the greys screw the lot of us over?

The answer is simple but Rolex won't do it because they like the idea (what company wouldn't) that their product is rare and sought after. All they have to do is increase production numbers.

[jameswrx]

At heart, this whole thread is about people wanting to resell watches 'factory fresh'.

I think that's slightly unfair.

A lot of us (and include myself in this) take a lot of the 'buying new' pleasure in getting whatever it is completely untouched, all sealed with whatever covers or protection are in place when it leaves the factory.

Arguing against that is futile as you just have to understand some people are like that, some aren't. If that's how you are, you're probably like it with everything. I've been the same since a kid and always keep boxes etc. Even every iPhone I've bought I've kept the original protective packaging inside its box.


I do agree that it may well be the motive for some people but there are actually many types of new buyer...

1) Person doesn't care for fiddling and actually would have the dealer strip it and size it

2) Person wants to take it home, see it sealed and remove the protection & size it at their leisure

3) Person that wants to keep it sealed as a collector and wants it untouched in a safe.

4) Person who's buying to flip to make money.

5) Person that is not necessarily looking to make money but often sells watches often & wants a set encase he wants to sell in 3 months.

[robert75]

Talk about an excessive sense of entitlement.Nobody has to sell you anything.

Because I feel I am entitled to get what I ask for when I hand over my money rather than what a seller decides I should get? They must just rub their hands when they see you coming, you also fancy buying a used car?

Fool and his money and all that.....

[Kingstepper]

Because I feel I am entitled to get what I ask for when I hand over my money rather than what a seller decides I should get? They must just rub their hands when they see you coming, you also fancy buying a used car?

That's rather one-sided, why are you choosing what you should get.

[robert75]

That's rather one-sided, why are you choosing what you should get.

Choosing what I should get? I am not sure what you mean but my point was simply if I walk into a shop and purchase say a watch, chap goes in the back and returns with said watch and I hand over my cash that's what I expect to get. What I don't expect is a salesperson telling me what he is going to do to my watch before I can have it and making it clear I will not be getting it unless he does so. If a salesperson offers to resize the bracelet (often they do) or remove the stickers (again, had that before) I as a customer can say yes or no. Maybe I want to take it home, most bracelets I remove anyway and switch to a leather strap. My Omega Speedmaster bracelet is still with its stickers on because I have never used it, I changed it to a leather strap because most bracelets I find uncomfortable but hey, that's my choice to make not the salesperson.

There are a few issues here, firstly Rolex, Patek etc DO have to sell watches or they will simply go out of business, that people will happily be treated like children for a watch the price of a used car (Rolex) or a new Ford or Vauxhall (Patek) is testament to how said companies have convinced some people that they are being done a favor to hand over several thousand pounds of their own money for a watch. Imagine going into a Vauxhall dealership and someone telling you what to do with your car before you drive off with it.

The second point is I find much of this hard to believe, I am sure there are a few crack pot dealers out there but I find it hard to believe companies like Patek and Rolex mug off their customers like this with the thousands of watches they sell all over the world if they did the internet would be awash with similar complaints. More likely there are one or two dealers, one or two "serial flippers" (dealers) and the odd person who is happy to be led a sorry dance. I would be amazed if Patek boutiques or Rolex dealers around the world treat their customers like that.

[wileeeeeey]

In this situation could you send your Rolex for service and then later opt
for to collect your Rolex from the service centre?

[Evanssprky]

Deleted my own post, soz.

[markrlondon]

At heart, this whole thread is about people wanting to resell watches 'factory fresh'.

As previously pointed out:

(a) That's not the case. Buying a brand new item in brand new condition does not mean you wish to resell it.

(b) Even if it is a matter of resale, so what? Resale is a wholly legitimate reason to buy an item. Dealers do it all the time, afterall. Their profit is no more holy than someone else's profit.

[dougair]

I'm OK with this, to be honest.

It 'appears' some of the AD's have been speaking together and have compared names on lists, and between many of their own stores. What they 'seem' to have found is that the same names appear on these lists from one end of the UK to the other. Also, they 'seem' to know that some of those names are, albeit loosely, affiliated with known grey dealers.

So, some of the grey dealers are playing the game of swamping the lists early in order to charge US more cash for something we should be able to buy for RRP and legitimately as part of our hobby!

What would people suggest is a good or better way to deal with this? Just let the greys screw the lot of us over?

Blimey, if proven there is a whole load of Data Protection issues right there!

[markrlondon]

However, the Rolex is sold with a warranty card, which you will be asked for if you try and exercise your warranty rights. Withholding this card will hinder the consumer in exercising his rights and that condition of sale is forbidden under consumer rights legislation.

Not necessarily.

The warranty card is only useful for obtaining warranty service from the manufacturer (possibly via an AD). The manufacturer's warranty is not regulated by law as far as I know (except possibly contract law).

However, the retailer who sold the watch is bound by law to provide a statutory warranty, but the manufacturer's warranty card is irrelevant to this.

Thus withholding the manufacturer's warranty card does not necessarily obstruct a consumer's statutory rights.

Nevertheless, I am dead against this rubbish of withholding bits and pieces. It's utterly absurd. It also cannot prevent the grey market for the reason that if buyers from ADs are willing to buy watches without all the bits then it follows that buyers from grey dealers will naturally be willing to do the same.

In short, all that this severely disreputable dealer cretinism achieves is (1) to inconvenience legitimate customers and (2) to bring ADs and the brand that tolerates the stupidity into disrepute.

I encourage everyone to boycott dealers who act in this dishonest, disreputable, and insulting manner and go instead to grey dealers who provide better service (with whatever bits they can source from the AD!).

Go grey, you know it makes sense. Do not reward dodgy ADs.

[markrlondon]

Blimey, if proven there is a whole load of Data Protection issues right there!

Indeed. A campaign of SARs might help bring out the truth, no that enough people in the UK will be bothered to do this.

Too many British people are poor consumers who simply accept whatever rubbish retailers throw at them.