Gravel is fine, starting from 2/3 of the width of a car. It gives a little escape room but go beyond and the car stops.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Originally Posted by Papa Hotel
Agree 100% with this...Vettel, Max, Hamilton, Kimi and the others you mention actually make it interesting. The Hulk - Magnusson beef was hysterical. And I mean, come on, has there been a better F1 image in recent years than Alonso catching some sun?
Yep good idea, isn't this deja vu?
A low grip surface off circuit could potentially be dangerous, increasing the chances of drivers losing control and colliding with other cars and/or track furniture. Gravel traps have also been removed from circuits and replaced with asphalt, again down to safety reasons. The concern with using hard surfaces as run-off is that drivers aren't "punished" when they venture beyond the white lines, though safety has to be the no.1 area of focus and I for one am happy with the way that both the track limits are defined (the white lines) and the safety considerations. It's easy to tell if someone has exceeded track limits, what is perhaps a little less clear is a) when is it considered acceptable for a driver to exceed those limits (eg aquaplaning in a downpour or avoiding a collision with another car) and b) what constitutes an advantage - in Verstappen's case he clearly went beyond the lines and he clearly gained an advantage, and I don't subscribe to the idea that Kimi forced him there. The same could be said of DR vs VB on the 2nd(?) lap where DR went up the inside of VB legally pushing him wide on a left-hander, VB exceeded the circuit limits on the outside of the bend which then enabled him, along with Merc power, to drive side by side with DR to the next right-hander where VB took and held the inside line getting past DR.
Image of the season for me.
Last edited by CardShark; 26th October 2017 at 12:19.
Another back-to-back race, and it's Mexico.
Whether you prefer the proper circuit of years gone by, the emaciated version that we have today is more of what we've become used to, with a couple of long straights preceded by, and leading into, some tight corners. Given the altitude, despite the length of the straights, Mexico requires downforce levels along the lines of Hungary and Monaco, making DRS more effective.
Tyre choices:
A bit smaller and harder to read this time, apologies. Eagle-eyed readers will note that Daniil Kvyat is on the list, although he has been replaced by Brendon Hartley, which is likely to be the case for the rest of the season. Getting a second chance in a Red Bull team is unusual, so don't expect him to be given a third.
FP1 is at 4pm tomorrow, FP2 at 8pm. On Saturday FP3 starts at 5pm, Qualifying at 7pm, while the race, and inevitable subsequent coronation of Lewis Hamilton as 2017 World Champion will be at 7pm on Sunday.
What's safety got to so with this? It's about overtaking within the confines of the track not cutting the corner to do it.I know!
But, it's just soooo dangerous, that overtaking stuff.
Safety first.
I was being sarcastic.
Within the confines of the track means, with a lot of racetracks, nearly impossible to overtake.
Hungary was such a track, boring races to say the least.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
But not in Austin which is where this incident happened.
Overtaking should be about skill not driving off the racetrack.
Last edited by watchcollector1; 26th October 2017 at 14:45.
Exactly, and what a skillful manoeuvre it was, imho.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
The main skill is to overtake within the rules. An offside goal in football can still be skillful to some degree but It's still offside.
Last edited by watchcollector1; 26th October 2017 at 15:44.
Have we finished with Max Verstappen's rather relaxed interpretation of track limits and the art of overtaking? It's certainly generated some column yards in the press and on the internet, and if the FIA and the Stewards had applied the rules rather more consistently throughout the meeting, perhaps there would be a consensus that the section of track between the white lines is where the racing should take place.
On to this weekend, and it's quite refreshing to see a grid not lined up behind two Mercedes, due to their ability to call upon more engine power in Q3. Although, even if Vettel wins, the drivers' title is over as long as Hamilton finishes in the first five, thereby rendering the next two races largely academic unless you divert your interest to the scrap between the midfield teams for bragging rights and several million dollars from the prize fund towards next year's budget - Force India seem likely to get fourth, but it's all a bit tight between Williams, Toro Rosso, Renault and Haas. Even McLaren could salvage something from their season, but they'll need to avoid penalties, which looks unlikely. Haas had a qualifying session to forget yesterday, and without anybody else having penalties they would have the back row all to themselves. I suspect that Romain Grosjean may have a view on the matter. Did anybody notice his rather self-deprecating helmet design in Austin? Below the visor was a representation of the lower part of his face with a speech bubble saying "I'm not moaning".
And, in other news, Bernie Ecclestone has resurfaced with claims that the FIA (and FOM, in other words he himself) have historically favoured Ferrari. A very "Bernie" piece of sensationalist headline grabbing, reminding everybody that he's still around, and, as was his usual MO, causing division and playing Devil's Advocate.
Leaving a stopped car just off the circuit typically on the exit of a corner.
How about a GPS/telemetry based system - all four wheels off the track and the clutch gets pulled?
Or leave the track limits and lose some HP for the following lap? Obviously this wouldn't work if it happened on the last lap but maybe a 5 second penalty could be used instead? Oh, hang on...
Nice suggestion but it will cause possible safety issues, when cutting the car's power from the outside. The GPS idea is a good one, but to be enforced like it's done in Dutch and German soccer and Wimbledon line technology: make it visible for the team manager in the pit and after the foul through the radio to the driver.
Rest assured, another race series has it in hand. This device is under development:
NB It is flexible!
I read that earlier today, that and he thinks Merc recently provided Ferrari with engine tech assistance so that both teams could remain in front of Red Bull and that, from Merc's POV it would give them a team to beat rather than just thrash the lot of them. Apparently the kudos levels are even higher when you win against Ferrari in a fair an even battle...
Spoilsports!.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I wouldn't be surprised. A battle on the track generates more spectators / money. With an overpowering Mercedes in front of everybody, it would become boring within a half season. Now, if this story is true -or at least possible- what about the other part? The Ferrari Assistance International story?
M.
Maybe if they put 1,000 volts through it....Spoilsports!
Real life Mario cart ? I’d watch that!
Cheers..
Jase
Flexible's fine as long as the driver's scrotum is hanging out of the bottom of the car.Spoilsports!
Maxxxxx!
MAXico!
Why is Hamilton relatively slow when it comes to overtaking this time? His radio mentions 8th place...
M
Last edited by thieuster; 29th October 2017 at 21:09.
Car might have some damage from the incident with Seb, also, the Mercedes doesn't work well in dirty air, also, this circuit doesn't suit the Mercedes. Take your pick!
Finally - (and speaking as a fan of LH) Hamilton is emotional, he may still be steaming at Seb, especially if he thinks that accident was deliberate...
Last edited by danmiddle2; 29th October 2017 at 21:16.
That's what's mentioned on a Dutch site as well.the Mercedes doesn't work well in dirty air, also, this circuit doesn't suit the Mercedes.
On Twitter: The last driver to win an @F1 World #Championship having been lapped in a race was James Hunt in 1976.
Not how Lewis would want to win, I am sure...
It always seems like a bit of an anti climax to me when the championship winning driver isn't even on the podium. Shame, given LH's recent successful run.
LH is the third UK champion to become WC in Mexico. So did Hill and Surtees. He's in good company!
M.
Many congratulations to LH on becoming WC for the 4th - a very difficult day but still winning some points.
my money will be on him winning both remaining races, just to make a point.
Excellent drive by Max. Credit where it's due.
As for Vettel - how many more crashes will he cause at the first complex. Great driver, complete knob!
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Top effort - great result and (mostly) well deserved.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Or letting Bottas past on the last lap, just to push Vettel down to 3rd in Championship. Bottas has played wingman in the second half of the season, time to repay the favour.
Yep, this... although Bottas will need to be on his tail to take advantage.
I’d like to know why Vettel wasn’t told to give one of his places back when he had all 4 wheels over the white line on an overtake.
Oh and a massive congratulations to Lewis on his 4th world championship. Let’s see if he gets a Knighthood now.
I'm not sure he was 100% to blame this time. To me it looked like Max took one side of Seb's front wing in his 'feisty' overtake. Less front wing meant he ran wider into Lewis losing the other side of his wing in Lewis' rear tyre.
I certainly don't think Vettel did it deliberately and I'm pretty certain Lewis won't this morning either.
Hopefully not, mind you they do seem to give them away to any oik these days so maybe so.
mike
You could argue that he had his nose ahead when the corner started.
You could also argue that his car is a lovely shade of red...
Brundell thought it was a give back. I personally thought Massa did the standard squeeze out off track, Vettel avoided and got back on track as soon as possible. Then again Brundell almost always calls correctly.
It's not as if there isn't a history of favouritism toward Vettel this season. It's obvious Vettel needs to go off and work on the mental side of his game this winter, quite an astonishing situation to be in when you consider he's a 4 x wdc.
Congrats to Hamilton, one of the greatest now.
Let's see if it can turn into a real fight between him and Max next year, two drivers of that caliber deserve a real fight before one of them becomes champion.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Well they gave Jackie Stewart one for winning three championships and we have to endure his ridiculous tartan clothing every time we see him on tv.
He got a Knighthood nearly 30 years after his championships for services to racing, not just because of his number of titles.
Cheers..
Jase
Excellent point. Park it about 1meter from the line and let Bottas through. That would be so funny (and soooo disrespectful to Vettel) and Ferrari.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
In which case Max will need to step up. He was been racing for 2 years now?
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Yes, about two years, but the car is only now matching Hamilton's Merc a bit closely.
Max doesn't need to step up, his car does.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
I would agree that now is not the time (Stewart's was, at least partly, for his pursuit, often unpopular, of safety in f1), but Wiggins has one for less...
M
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Andy Murray has one too. Nothing against the fella but he hasn’t done anything in Tennis that Lewis hasn’t matched (or beaten) in F1.
Agree with jaytip as It's a different time now a disgrace Surtees never got one for 2 & 4 wheels but could have also got it for his charity work anyway...
but Farah has one almost immediately for 4 gold medals, Hoy, Wiggins,etc....they seem to be awarded much quicker over a shorter period now so Sir Lewis is not beyond the realms & SPOTY probably done too.
Jackie Stewart who is a great guy to meet & talk to & a gent was praising LH through gritted teeth I don't know why he doesn't like him.
The only thing i'll miss when C4 lose coverage apart from some live races is my (next)wife; Lee McKenzie. Great on her own in warm up - was a pleasure to have sense & no stupid inane jokes or gurning at the camera...... someone there needs to tell Steve Jones he's not on T4 broadcasting to teens anymore,the man is a prize plum.
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Last edited by lordloz; 30th October 2017 at 11:56.
Great example of BBC bias, they don't show F1 so don't even bother mentioning it on the front page of their news site, they are reporting other fairly trivial sports stories.
Yet I would have thought people would want to be proud of such a great achievement
Plenty of coverage on breakfast this morning...
M
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Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
And on their site now, maybe they were editing
On www.bbc.co.uk/news:
- 'All-time great Hamilton shines above numbers' shows as having been up for 8 hours
- Hamilton 'to surpass Schumacher by 2020' for 14 hours
- Did Hamilton really do that? for 12 hours
I hesitate to look at their Sports site.
Poor bloke Ricciardo - has a pretty good season, plenty of points, some great passes, great bloke and all he gets is Max Max Max in the headlines. He's been quietly doing a great job.
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