i always like black dial with good lume index dive watches...
currently own
seiko 5 pvd black dial
ball engineer hydrocarbon classic ii black dial
sinn u1
seiko samurai titanium black dial
enzo emv black dial
etc
was thinking to relume my seiko 5 pvd watches, i was looking for the best lume in town?
any1 use the noctilumina before? it claims its better than super luminova, and last up to 36 hours in the dark.
http://www.noctilumina.com/
This looks to be a superior product to Luminova.
I am an ardent fan of bright night illumination, and often find myself disappointed with the level of brightness afforded by Luminiova products, even on new watches.
36 hrs of unassisted brightness seems to good to be true, but I'd certainly be willing to give it a try.
If anbody in the UK were to offer a re-luming service with this product, I'd be at the top of the waiting list.
I like that their website gives the method of testing. That's particularly honest and careful of them. (I looked at the site when I got an email from them inviting me to buy some of their products.)Originally Posted by doug darter
2mm by .5 mm dots are pretty big by watch standards. And, that is with the 110 micron sized pigments, no doubt. 110 microns is pretty big too, by watch paint pigment standards. 15-30 is more usual, but folks have been going to 5-10 micron particles and less (for that smooth look). With pigment particles of the smaller size, you aren't going to get much above 12 hours.
Nothing against the NoctiLuima products, or anything.
I think that if you want long life, bright luminous markers, you make them big in three dimensions. At least 2x2x.5, and, even better at 3x3x.75. (No benefit in going over .75mm deep). You also use the largest particles possible. (At least 100 micros. The bigger the better.) You use the heaviest pigment you can. (1:1 pigment:binder. 2:3 is more likely, however.) And no colouring in the binder. And the particles cut for the green color. You'll wind up with giant, grainy, green glowing markers, with a sickly yellow/green daylight colour, but they will glow like a radioactive turnip.
Better for the quartz folks would be radioactive markers that glow, but are also connected to a tiny power plant that could power the watch.
Best wishes,
Bob
Baldrick would like that.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
:lol:Baldrick would like that.
Eddie
I notice that Bob Thayer uses Noctilume, which is some kind of recommendation.
The titanium samurai was pretty damn good when I had it. The only problem with Seiko lume is that it's VERY bright initally but fades very fast afterwards. I find my Sinn 856 maintains both brightness and duration much better - wonder if that's down to the thickness of the lume applied?
i agreed with ming
my seiko samurai was really bright compare to my sinn u1 n prs20le
so far i never satisfy with all my watches in terms of lume, because i been wearing my ball engineer hydrocarbon daily since 2 yrs ago!
i wonder eddie will consider h3 gas tube for his next watch !
Things that infuriate me N° 17:
Ebay sellers who describe a watch as having illuminous paint.
I think it is the ratio of luminous material to exciter/activator, i.e., Strontium Aluminate to Europium.
Best wishes,
Bob
I must not be reading things properly again, but I can't find any real specifications on their product other than the 36 hours readable. What did I miss on their web site?
Actually, what I'd really like to see is a graph of brightness vs. time. That would make it easier to compare to any other luminous technologies.
From the NoctiLumina website.I must not be reading things properly again, but I can't find any real specifications on their product other than the 36 hours readable. What did I miss on their web site?
They give the amount they use in testing, the length of exposure, and the light to which it is exposed.A wide variety of NoctiLuminaŽ pigments are available, including several that are readable for up to 36 hours in the dark (tested with a 2 mm diameter by 0.5 mm dot after exposure to sunlight for 15 minutes).
Best wishes,
Bob
Just googled their name, almost no links. What makes me a bit suspicious is that these type of top products are sold under exclusivity arrangements (for example, H3/Tritium vials). For instance, I have never found a source for buying superluminova.....
We take for granted that all information on the web is accurate, and probably the opposite is true.....
Cheers
Jose M.
I'm not sure I'm following you. I take it that the NoctiLumina folks are a small startup. Superluminova is a trade name from TriTec. But, you can get similar luminous material from any number of places. (I take it that TriTec has some interesting binder, basically. )
Best wishes,
Bob
I wonder if I am in a small minority when I say that I really dont like the look of them and also not impressed with the half life of around 12 years?
Bob, maybe I was not explaining myself properly. I was wondering about the reliability of the information in their web. It is the first time I have heard of that company and I was wondering whether what they said is right: that they have a far superior lume paint than any other company. Yes, they could be a start up company. But i f you have such a superior product the best way to go is not to set up a company, but to go for some big name in the industry and sell them your product in exclusivity. Just consider that the company behind H3 have it just for their own watches for a few watches.
Regarding superluminova, it is far superior to the standard lume (luminova, for instance), and although I can buy standard lume paint anywhere, I cannot find a place to buy superluminova (or H3).
Well, not sure if I have explained mysel any better than before... :?
Bob, maybe I was not explaining myself properly. I was wondering about the reliability of the information in their web. It is the first time I have heard of that company and I was wondering whether what they said is right: that they have a far superior lume paint than any other company. Yes, they could be a start up company. But i f you have such a superior product the best way to go is not to set up a company, but to go for some big name in the industry and sell them your product in exclusivity. Just consider that the company behind H3 have it just for their own watches for a few watches.
Regarding superluminova, it is far superior to the standard lume (luminova, for instance), and although I can buy standard lume paint anywhere, I cannot find a place to buy superluminova (or H3).
Well, not sure if I have explained mysel any better than before... :?
Put aside the H3. Super-luminova is a registered name for a pigment with RC Tritec ltd, a Swiss company, being the sole European distributors, in an agreement/in conjunction with Nemoto and Co, a Japanese company. Nemoto holds the patent for the material that RC Tritec uses. The relevant luminous material that Nemoto makes is called Luminova, also a registered name. Luminova is made from Strontium Aluminate, as is all modern luminous paint. "Super-luminova" is "luminova" with "super" added on. In a similar vein, you sometimes find some Swiss company adding "Superlative" to "Chronometer". (Those devilishly amusing, and creative Swiss! ;)) I take it that RC Tritec has made a nice binder for the material. I also suspect that the reason that they get the Swiss orders is that they are Swiss, they are integrated with the Swiss watch industry, and it helps keep watches "Swiss" (every little bit helps).
The older type of luminous material was based on zinc sulfide. Nemoto also makes a pigment based on this. Luminous material based on this was pretty poor. I believe that Rolex used luminous paint based on zinc sulfide until recently (or, even, still do). The advantage to Zinc Sulfide is that it takes less energy (light) to charge it. The disadvantage is that it doesn't glow as brightly, and doesn't last as long.
Best wishes,
Bob
PS For your amusement, here's what it looks like to have about 100g (which will do a lot of watches) of Strontium Aluminate based pigment all in one place, and charged up. (To make a paint, it needs to be added to a binder, such as varnish, acrylic medium, or oil medium.)
RLF
Interesting, Bob, very interesting. I thought the difference was in the base material. Now I know the mix is the relevant thing. I have some luminous paint, so I will check what is the base material.
Thanks. It is obvious you are a teacher: you are very patient with our ignorance.... :)
PS: Yes, that is a very amusing picture.......... 8)
Too many secrets and too much hot air in the watch world, on my view. Especially with the Switzers. Which is sad, as there is also plenty of creativity and plenty of talent there. But, I supose that's what you get in an "aspirational" market. You couldn't image a book like Daniel's Watchmaking coming from Switzerland (now, at least), as the book is (English) Enlightenment to the core (as well as great self-marketing). Also, a perfect market requires perfect information (amongst other things).
In any case, Nemoto has some pretty good technical documents on their stuff.
http://www.nemoto.co.jp/en/products/luminova/list.html
Best wishes,
Bob
PS. As I see it, the value added bit of Tritec, based on its close association with the watch Swiss watch industry, seems to be the following: coatings and binders, for luminious material, made to work well with watch dial production, and the development of apparatuses for the application of the luminous material to watch dials in a controlled and consistent manner. On my view, neither of these is to be sneezed at.
RLF
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