Reply With QuoteIf the buyer's story checks out, RM will admit fault. Seller will then know he'll get the insurance money and can refund the buyer.
Until then, item was delivered by RM and only the buyer can establish what happened.
Utter nonsense. If you've posted an item insured then you've done your part. You should of course do everything you can to make sure the buyer gets their money back via the courier.Originally Posted by Hood
If the buyer's story checks out, RM will admit fault. Seller will then know he'll get the insurance money and can refund the buyer.
Until then, item was delivered by RM and only the buyer can establish what happened.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I would report this to the chairman’s office and get it investigated properly and the postman concerned interviewed. If his story is at odds with the buyer’s, I would involve the police.
The postman has far, far too much to lose - and losing a Special Delivery is a big deal.
I’d just get it investigated properly and take it from there.
I know where your coming from, but i tend to have an open mind on situations like this at an early stage, and tend to go off the currant stated facts, who knows how it will unfold though.
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No you haven't done your bit.
It is you who has the insurance for a reason.
It is your lost item not his.
So you'd really just reimburse without recovering either the funds or the watch first? Na.
I agree with Ryan here. He’s not being harsh, it’s a simple case of the seller having to make a claim against the Royal Mail, using the insurance they paid for as part of RMSD. If we take this at face value, the buyer, through no fault of their own, has not received the item so has informed the seller so that they can lodge a complaint.
Okay but what if Royal Mail continues to assert that the item was delivered and therfore there is no claim to be made. Should the seller lose out?
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Agreed, but won’t the insurance pay out go to the seller, who will in turn pass it on to the buyer?
Cancel the above, I misread your post: you’ve said exactly what I suggested.
A couple of months ago I had a watch delicered by RMSD. The value of the watch was about £1200 and I was out when it was delivered. What did the postie do? He signed for the parcel himself (with my name) and put the parcel in the wheely bin.
This, in a nut shell. But if Royal Mail investigate and conclude the item was delivered correctly, they will not pay out. And on that basis OP would have to decide whether he believes Royal Mail to the extent he’d withhold a refund from the buyer.
^ this. Acting in good faith, the seller will likely instigate an investigation on the basis of the buyer’s account, but in my view his responsibilities have been well discharged.
So you are the buyer here?
I already said what the only caveat would be before refunding so yes I would.
There was a case with DHL a few months ago on here where the buyer got an empty package.
He had signed for it only to discover no watch inside.
The seller(from abroad)refunded the buyer after a few days and eventually he was paid out by the insurance after a bit.
It really is the sellers responsibility to get the item to the buyer.
Completely different scenarios.
Royal Mail are not DHL, and Royal Mail will not pay out if they conclude the item was delivered correctly.
If I’ve got a parcel over say £1K being delivered on a set date and time schedule like RMSD offers, I will make sure Me, spouse, sibling, children, parents etc that are known to me personally are available to take delivery of that parcel as I feel that would be my side of the deal to the seller at least when sending the parcel.
And I make this very clear from the outset whether buying or selling regarding RMSD parcels or the deal just doesn’t get completed.
Some interesting views on this subject particularly on the honesty of the buyer!
So the buyers side of the story......
I realised there was a problem on the day the parcel should have been received when checking the parcel tracking number it stated it had been delivered at 10:18 and signed for (with my surname but not one of our signatures) on a day when I'd left for work at 07:00 and the missus at 08:30. Checked with some neighbours to see if anyone else had signed for it and the postie had forgot to leave a card but none were aware of a delivery. Made the seller aware who subsequently submitted a claim.
At the weekend had a knock on the door from the postie enquiring about the parcel and he admitted he had signed for the parcel and left it in the 'open porch' to save me the hassle of going to the sorting office. Was kind of surprised he did admit it to be honest and do feel a bit sorry for him as he was trying to do me a favour, the road is a fairly quiet no through road so he thought it would be safe there although it was on full view from the road. Informed the seller of what I'd been told.
The seller then informed me he had received confirmation his claim had been rejected and I would have to submit a claim, which I have done even having to provide the sellers details and his proof of receipt?! There is no 'apparently' taking up to 30 days as this is the time stated in when the claim was submitted. I appreciate it is a an unusual situation but the contract to deliver the watch was between the seller and Royal Mail and any compensation would be refunded to the seller. From personal experience any parcels I've sent that have not been received or damaged I've always refunded the buyer immediately and claimed against the courier involved.
From an honesty point of view I've had hundreds of positive sales feedback on other forums and have purchased a 3K on here and actually waited a couple of weeks before receiving the watch as the seller had gone on holiday.
Hopefully this will be resolved as it is obviously a failing on Royal Mail part and no fault of the seller or buyer.
To repeat ;that is why I would want evidence of the improper signature first.That way there is evidence that it has not been delivered correctly.
Lucky you can arrange for someone to be in, not everyone has the luxury of relatives close by or taking a day off work just to receive a parcel
Deleted; Too slow
Last edited by Dave+63; 2nd March 2018 at 20:20.
Exactly. I think if it just vanished into thin air along the way it would be different. But it was signed for at the buyers house. The signature needs to be checked - does it resemble the buyers name? If so it couldn't have been a chancer, it could only be someone who knew the buyers name.
If the buyer asserts the postie admitted to forging the signature then it needs investigating. If the postie denies this, then it becomes a police matter because either he or the buyer is lying and trying to commit fraud/theft. In the meantime, don't part with a bean.
Which goes to show all the speculation by others helps not one jot.
Signing someone’s name must be fraud/or something illegal surely?
You’re fortunate having a whole team of people who can sit and wait for the postman. Meanwhile, back in the real world...
Surely you have a whole team of staff in your palace? Or will have once it’s finished!
But you can arrange it so the guy posts it for a day when you are in.
Unnecessary.
Explain.
I may have missed a post that has already stated this but surely you can use the signature left by the postie as proof that the buyer did not sign for the delivery as it will not be the buyers signature? That in itself has got to hold sway in the claim.......I have,in the past,had to submit a claim and used this exact argument to successfully claim compensation.
Haha, there will be just a cleaner. People have complicated lives. I often get stuff sent to my UK address when I’m away and take the red card to the sorting office to collect when I’m back.Surely you have a whole team of staff in your palace? Or will have once it’s finished!
I think you are asking a buyer to make 2 rather large "leaps of faith"here.
The first ,which we all accept, is to send payment for an item to,for all intents and purposes,a stranger that most times we will never have met.
The buyer goes with this as its TZ after all.
On top of this we now want the buyer to take responsibility for the item not arriving.
IMO that is the sellers remit.
What does an improper signature prove? Anyone can do a dodgy squiggle?
I had an amazon delivery yesterday and the guy didn’t have a stylus for his handheld, so I did a circle. Looks nothing like my normal signature that I’d do with a pen.
People can organise their lives according to their circumstances. Not a question of the real world. Sounds as though you lack familial support. Your problem, not others.
Usually anyone in the property can sign for deliveries but surely a dishonest buyer can just sign with a false signature.
People can make all sorts of assumptions about other people. I lack nothing, and my ignore list has just grown by one.
Bye.
Hold the argument If you look above the buyer has explained what happened.
The buyer confirms in an email that this is not his signature and he has not received the parcel.
How else do you plan on claiming that it has not been received by the buyer?
No loss friend.
His house is bigger than yours but.
You said “That way there is evidence that it has not been delivered correctly.”
A signature is not evidence it has not been delivered correctly, unless the postman admits to his seniors what he allegedly admitted to the buyer.
Thats a heavyweight contest between SM and DMHis house is bigger than yours but.
Both men of means.
House-off !
So if the buyer confirms thats not his signature and he did not receive the item I can't really see where the problem lies.
I know I’m beat here in the willy waving congest, old chap
As a note here. As a result of an argument last week with RM over a non-delivery (card through the door but we were BOTH in the house) I found out that the postman has to scan the RMSD item when the signature is signed or when he puts the non-delivery card through the door (the bar code is stuck on the non-delivery card)
That scan puts the GPS co-ordinates on the record. If the buyer can prove he wasn't at that location then he's in the clear.
DM I think you're old money where as Skyman is new money.
I expect you to lose in the boys toys department but come thundering back in the property and investment stakes.
I've never heard of this...
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Oh god... this is a battle between two forum financial giants.
I would like to see a Top Trumps style face off.
> Number of houses
> Number of vintage cars / sports cars
> Number of PP, ALS,VC or AP watches (nothing else counts)
> Number of housekeeping staff
> Number of mistresses
> Number of holiday homes
etc......
To tell the truth I’m a grammar school oik from very humble beginnings. No breeding at all and definitely no silver spoon.
I’m not going to argue with you, but we send thousands of items every week. We had one person this week do exactly what you’re saying, and Royal Mail refused the claim (because their DO when interviewed said categorically that the person did sign for it). The GPS coordinates were right outside the address. Royal Mail concluded it was delivered, end of, claim denied.
Getting into “that’s not my signature, honest!” is not going to wash with them.
I imagine the clearest route to this claim being granted is if the DO is truthful with whoever investigates.
We have had this a few times when people can prove they were in work when the signature was allegedly taken. Aside from being in work, it’s usually quite hard to prove their whereabouts otherwise.
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