Daytona for a fee..

[Montello]

I'd not do it and I'd be annoyed I'd been asked because the implication is that I'm as corrupt as the sales guy ...

I'd also be annoyed at the possibility of missing out if I wanted the watch; so I'd attempt to play along and see if I could buy the watch for the retail price and walk out ...

Trouble is then I'd be worried about the repercussions so the reality is I'd walk from the deal but I would advise Rolex but you'd need some proof if you were going to do that ...

[uptheaddicks]

This idea that “everyone’s at it.....”

You do it the legal way or live in fear of a knock on the door / the other dishonest parties doing the dirty on you at some point / a disenchanted staff-member blowing you up / have to reconcile all that your parents taught you about right and wrong, honest and dishonest. They did, didn’t they?

In my sector one now has to have an explicit anti-bribery policy documented and the FCA would be all over this misbehaviour.

I have a much greater faith in legal, straight, taxed business than some, it seems. Even offer me a bent deal, ask to be paid in kind rather than invoice me or boast about what you think is such a clever for of tax evasion and if you’re lucky it will just be the last time I entertain your enquiry. It is not ubiquitous, it isn’t acceptable and anyone who thinks it’s ok because they have kidded themselves “everyone’s at it” is a weak, bent fool.

I am an FCA whistleblower.

I have called HMRC cheats hotline.

I have made Suspicious Activity Reports to the NCA.

I’ll “snitch” to the police if you deserve it - and I’ll do each of the above proudly. I’m one of a much greater majority who works damn hard, pays his tax, makes sacrifices and is sick of the increasing acceptability of “cheating the system.” You aren’t cheating the system, you’re cheating the rest of us and I’ll stop you if I can.

Sunning myself in the Maldives on taxed and legal proceeds at this very moment, which means I can sleep at night.

If certain others on this thread can hush their conscience......shame on them. I cannot say that I don’t wish their time to come.

H

Well said Sir!

[Onelasttime]

Not missed the point at all. I was just saying looking at it from the consumer point of view. Irrespective of the bung deal or spend more deal, no retailer legally or otherwise is imposing anything on anyone. The consumer has the right to walk away.

I actually meant two members had spectacularly missed your point about there being nothing illegal in an AD asking a customer to purchase one thing so they could also purchase the other. As you stated, it's the terms of sale and if the purchaser doesn't like it, jog on. Doesn't make it right, but it's not against the law.

As for the bung deal, I think we've already concluded that the practice of taking an extra £3k cash from a customer, presumably off the books, is illegal. I suspect even the 'offering' of the cash extra might be on dodgy ground.

[Evanssprky]

The hypocrisy is quite staggering on this thread (and many others), for example :
"As others have said, watchfinder would pay you over £500 profit if you wanted to sell it so you aren’t losing, your only in a win win position."
Not meaning to single out the poster I've quoted, but this seems a common thread on TZ. It's fine to buy a new Rolex for profit only (denying someone who genuinely wanted it the chance to buy), but buy a watch on here with the same intention and you're an evil lowlife hoover who sucks the life out of the forum.
And that's before we look at the tax implications. Shocking.

[berin]

Having just completed my online corporate e-learning module on bribery on Tuesday I am now somewhat of an armchair expert (disclaimer; I have never worked for the Post Office).

Its illegal, genuinely proper illegal, not “in my w*nky opiniated opinion it’s illegal” but actually against the law. The law of England. Both the offering of a bribe and the receiving and to be frank the salesman clearly doesn’t have the IQ points he was born with to be so brazen and half-witted about this. It won’t just get him fired it’ll get him a custodial sentence.

Which is the bit that’s illegal (as opposed to unethical)?


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[g40steve]

Underhand dealings by AD staff is one of the main reasons folk like me rot on the waiting lists, as the staff are taking back handers!

[Nagraboy]

Underhand dealings by AD staff is one of the main reasons folk like me rot on the waiting lists, as the staff are taking back handers!

Staff use their discount to get SS Rolex sports models and then sell them on to dealers to top up their salaries, everyone knows this. Total hypocrisy on their part. They're part of the problem, if you consider it a problem.

[paskinner]

As best I can tell, the main source is staff selling their own allocation. It's not illegal, but it could get them sacked. In many cases staff don't even get a discount on stuff like the Daytona. Frankly, it's all very silly for a mass-produced watch, no matter how desirable.

[Nagraboy]

As best I can tell, the main source is staff selling their own allocation. It's not illegal, but it could get them sacked. In many cases staff don't even get a discount on stuff like the Daytona. Frankly, it's all very silly for a mass-produced watch, no matter how desirable.

And with staff earning less than the 'building a relationship' customers there's more incentive to cash in. Probably makes quite a difference to them financially.

[MB2]

Having just completed my online corporate e-learning module on bribery on Tuesday I am now somewhat of an armchair expert (disclaimer; I have never worked for the Post Office).

Its illegal, genuinely proper illegal, not “in my w*nky opiniated opinion it’s illegal” but actually against the law. The law of England. Both the offering of a bribe and the receiving and to be frank the salesman clearly doesn’t have the IQ points he was born with to be so brazen and half-witted about this. It won’t just get him fired it’ll get him a custodial sentence.

Thanks- I didn’t agree with the practice in any way, but I did assume it was legal for the giver of the money whilst clearly not for the receiver for both the Business and tax reasons.


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[Lemaniaman]

Completely unacceptable for an AD to do this.

Having thought about this a bit more I agree.

I also think it is morally wrong to do it and even if I wanted the watch I would steer clear.

I’d even go as far as not buying one full stop if I could not get one at retail or paying more. I would not be happy looking at the watch knowing some sales person had made 3k on it by breaking rules of the employer and possibly the law.

[Yorkshiremadmick]

I agree with Haywood and say ffffk it I’ll buy a Lorne watch more exclusive better warranty and a good tool watch.



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[tiny73]

Which is the bit that’s illegal (as opposed to unethical)?


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Both the offering and taking of a bribe. Somebody above who is clearly more expert than me (don’t know if he worked in the Post Office at any point?) detailed the specific legislation. (My online corporate e-learning armchair expert course did mention this but I forgot as I only needed to show I’ve done the course.)

Sincerely, what was surprising to me was how most incentives are seen as bribes...

[TBKBABAB]

Staff use their discount to get SS Rolex sports models and then sell them on to dealers to top up their salaries, everyone knows this. Total hypocrisy on their part. They're part of the problem, if you consider it a problem.

Well I didn’t know this, and would be interested to know if AD staff get preference or first refusal
on SS stock.
I would have hoped any decently run business would have some kind of rules and safeguards in place regarding purchases done with staff discount particularly when we are talking high value items which they know are actually are worth more than RRP on the used market, or maybe I’m just being naive.

[BillyCasper]

Well I didn’t know this, and would be interested to know if AD staff get preference or first refusal
on SS stock.

Would they should get is the same business ethics, anti-bribery, anti-money laundering training that a lot of us have to do. It’s not hard, doesn’t take long.


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[PJ S]

It may be illegal, unethical and morally unacceptable but please try to realise that in the commercial sector of most business this stuff goes on all the time. One of my best friends is a building contractor who specialises in 5* hotels in central London. You want to hear the stories about the tenders he puts in. “Put an extra £20k on your tender and il give you the job but il need the £20k in cash on the start date of the works”. Happens every day in London. Unfortunately you either play the game or you sit atop the moral high ground hoping to get work the right way/ get a new Daytona at list...

Completely different matter entirely – your friend is keeping himself & others employed, paying tax, etc, and putting food on their respective tables.
This is an overpriced, expensive wrist adornment that no-one actually has any need for. Other chronograph watches, without all the pretentious bollocks, are available.

[berin]

Both the offering and taking of a bribe. Somebody above who is clearly more expert than me (don’t know if he worked in the Post Office at any point?) detailed the specific legislation. (My online corporate e-learning armchair expert course did mention this but I forgot as I only needed to show I’ve done the course.)

Sincerely, what was surprising to me was how most incentives are seen as bribes...

difficult one, and maybe hard to show, since middle men / brokers take a fee for arranging deals all the time, and perfectly legally. Almost certainly sackable, but whether Plod would care is moot. And we don’t know the employee isn’t paying tax. I expect he declares it on his tax return as a commission

[cmcm3]

You're not honestly going to get the boy the dunt from his job for offering to facilitate your receipt of one of the hardest watches in the world to get?

[NigeG]

Well I didn’t know this, and would be interested to know if AD staff get preference or first refusal
on SS stock.
I would have hoped any decently run business would have some kind of rules and safeguards in place regarding purchases done with staff discount particularly when we are talking high value items which they know are actually are worth more than RRP on the used market, or maybe I’m just being naive.

A friend of mine’s Wife used to work for a well known Rolex AD in the North West. He told me that she was allowed one purchase per annum at the dealer’s cost price plus 10%. She was required to submit paperwork detailing who the family member was before it was sanctioned by the head office.

This was quite a few years ago now, so maybe it’s different today. His was a Datejust btw. Not sure if SS Sports were available or not.

[Hood]

Everyone can make their own decision on it.
Some would and some wouldn't.
It wouldn't affect my decision to deal with another member on here though.
Best to save the sermons for a Sunday .

[minkle]

A friend of mine’s Wife used to work for a well known Rolex AD in the North West. He told me that she was allowed one purchase per annum at the dealer’s cost price plus 10%. She was required to submit paperwork detailing who the family member was before it was sanctioned by the head office.

This was quite a few years ago now, so maybe it’s different today. His was a Datejust btw. Not sure if SS Sports were available or not.

It is still the same. Has to be through head office and even then it is not guaranteed.

Glad somebody knows what they are talking about with regards to staff buying Rolex at discounted prices.

[snowman]

Fortunately I can live without any Rolex...

M

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[ghu1967]

I’m honestly quite surprised by the amount of people who believe that there’s no harm in paying the £3,000 bung (or facilitation payment as we would call it in the industry i work in). Yes, it happens daily, but that doesn’t make it right. Personally, I’d walk away from this scenario, it’s wrong on every level.


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[Routers]

This idea that “everyone’s at it.....”

You do it the legal way or live in fear of a knock on the door / the other dishonest parties doing the dirty on you at some point / a disenchanted staff-member blowing you up / have to reconcile all that your parents taught you about right and wrong, honest and dishonest. They did, didn’t they?

In my sector one now has to have an explicit anti-bribery policy documented and the FCA would be all over this misbehaviour.

I have a much greater faith in legal, straight, taxed business than some, it seems. Even offer me a bent deal, ask to be paid in kind rather than invoice me or boast about what you think is such a clever form of tax evasion and if you’re lucky it will just be the last time I entertain your enquiry. It is not ubiquitous, it isn’t acceptable and anyone who thinks it’s ok because they have kidded themselves “everyone’s at it” is a weak, bent fool.

I am an FCA whistleblower.

I have called HMRC cheats hotline.

I have made Suspicious Activity Reports to the NCA.

I’ll “snitch” to the police if you deserve it - and I’ll do each of the above proudly. I’m one of a much greater majority who works damn hard, pays his tax, makes sacrifices and is sick of the increasing acceptability of “cheating the system.” You aren’t cheating the system, you’re cheating the rest of us and I’ll stop you if I can.

Sunning myself in the Maldives on taxed and legal proceeds at this very moment, which means I can sleep at night.

If certain others on this thread can hush their conscience......shame on them. I cannot say that I don’t wish their time to come.

H

100% with Haywood on this.

[TBKBABAB]

A friend of mine’s Wife used to work for a well known Rolex AD in the North West. He told me that she was allowed one purchase per annum at the dealer’s cost price plus 10%. She was required to submit paperwork detailing who the family member was before it was sanctioned by the head office.

This was quite a few years ago now, so maybe it’s different today. His was a Datejust btw. Not sure if SS Sports were available or not.

It is still the same. Has to be through head office and even then it is not guaranteed.

Glad somebody knows what they are talking about with regards to staff buying Rolex at discounted prices.

Thank you, sounds more realistic scenario

[Bernard]

I pay 52% income tax.
That could probably be less if there weren't so many cheats.

Of course I try not to pay more in taxes than necessary but always within the legal boundaries.

I totally understand Haywood (enjoy your holidays btw!) and fully agree.

[Dandandanman]

If he work for a chain like Ernst jones he only on minimum wage only the manager are on 25k on bonus so who can blame him.

[TBKBABAB]

If he work for a chain like Ernst jones he only on minimum wage only the manager are on 25k on bonus so who can blame him.

I can blame him for sure, that is absolutely no reason for dishonesty.

And don’t think Ernest Jones have been Rolex AD for about 5 years.

[Hood]

I can blame him for sure, that is absolutely no reason for dishonesty.

And don’t think Ernest Jones have been Rolex AD for about 5 years.

I would be saving my ire for Rolex as opposed to the spiv salesman.
They have artificially created this demand resulting in this sort of thing.

I see the loss of revenue for HMRC as a red herring.
The guy buying at list and then flipping onto greys isn't paying to HMRC either so really there is no loss to the revenue.

[Dandandanman]

Most staff in big shopping centres up and down the uk are on minimum wage or no more than £10 hour working Saturday Sunday Rolex ad or not. I live in Reading house start at £350.000 do the maths any one under 30 years of age with on bank of mum and dad have no hope. I blame Rolex and AD for not paying a living wage

[TBKBABAB]

I would be saving my ire for Rolex as opposed to the spiv salesman.
They have artificially created this demand resulting in this sort of thing.

Don’t understand this thinking at all but seems to be becoming the norm these days that it’s
always someone else’s fault not the person actually doing the deed.

And if that’s the way they want to do it that’s fine with me it’s their business, they are under
no obligation to produce as many as they could possibly sell.

If they increased the supply by 1000% wait for the screaming from all the Daytona owners.

[TBKBABAB]

Most staff in big shopping centres up and down the uk are on minimum wage or no more than £10 hour working Saturday Sunday Rolex ad or not. I live in Reading house start at £350.000 do the maths any one under 30 years of age with on bank of mum and dad have no hope. I blame Rolex not the young person in the AD risking his dead end job to get ahead.

2 bed Flat Reading 150k, and who says it’s a dead end job.

My wife has been working in a high street shop behind a till and on the shop floor since last September, she puts a lot of effort and thought into what she does and they already asking her to take on extra responsibilities and had 1 pay rise, no one owes you a living you have to work for it.

[Dandandanman]

I agree with hard work but I live in rg4 or rg5 2 bed flat £345 on location location on channel 4 last week.

I have a very nice home pay for buy hard work. It Cost Rolex £500 to make a watch maybe they should pay the sales more for there hard work.

[Motman]

“illegal, unethical and morally unacceptable” “sleazebag” “corrupt” “living in social housing”.

Those words do the name of Rolex a power of good. And still there are plenty that would literally kill and maim for one. Must be a hell of a watch.

[Dave+63]

Cost Rolex £500 to make a watch maybe they should pay the sales more for there hard work.

It’s nothing to do with Rolex, the ADs are the ones who pay their staff. It’s like saying Heinz should pay Asda employees more!

[Dandandanman]

I’m trying to buy a sub non date all I get from my AD is that I can’t go on the list because I have not bought any think in store is that blackmail. Should I call the police

But if I spent 4K I be third on list for New GMT

[Chalet]

I’m trying to buy a sub non date all I get from my AD is that I can’t go on the list because I have not bought any think in store is that blackmail. Should I call the police

But if I spent 4K I be third on list for New GMT

Get a new AD.

[kultschar]

The guy buying at list and then flipping onto greys isn't paying to HMRC either so really there is no loss to the revenue.

Indeed and I bet some people are doing this full time and are VIP customers at their ADs

[nunya]

I’m trying to buy a sub non date all I get from my AD is that I can’t go on the list because I have not bought any think in store is that blackmail. Should I call the police

But if I spent 4K I be third on list for New GMT

Slight over reaction, how is that blackmail?

[nunya]

I agree with hard work but I live in rg4 or rg5 2 bed flat £345 on location location on channel 4 last week.

I have a very nice home pay for buy hard work. It Cost Rolex £500 to make a watch maybe they should pay the sales more for there hard work.

Is that all? Are you sure about that?

[Sparjar]

...and tax won’t be paid on it, either. This is why the rest of us have to pay such a high rate of tax on everything!

Errr, no, we, the hard working people, have to pay high taxes because those who run the joint like to bribe those who don't like to work that much but have equal voting rights to us with these things called benefits.

I am disappointed that so many members feel this is ethically or legally acceptable. Makes no difference to me commercially what this chap does, but personally I find it unacceptable and I would celebrate obtaining the evidence in order to create the greatest s***-storm imaginable. Perhaps the dirt might even bring about a rethink of the whole, silly situation.

Haywood

Come on Milty boy, if you keep being such a saint one day they might elect you as the next pope.

[Sparjar]

Most staff in big shopping centres up and down the uk are on minimum wage or no more than £10 hour working Saturday Sunday Rolex ad or not. I live in Reading house start at £350.000 do the maths any one under 30 years of age with on bank of mum and dad have no hope. I blame Rolex and AD for not paying a living wage

Are you suggesting that it was Rolex who decided to let anyone regardless where they are in the world suck up as many properties as their credit line allows (and as a result drive the real estate market to where it is, globally)? Because let's not forget that most of this property "wealth" was generated through leverage enabled via fully open tabs of dirt cheap credit. I had no clue Rolex should be blamed for it.

[walkerwek1958]

Buy it from him. Then report him.

Yeah, great idea......make an enemy for life! Don`t be surprised when he gets his own back on you.....accidents do happen!

What a stupid comment.

Paul

[Mj2k]

I agree with hard work but I live in rg4 or rg5 2 bed flat £345 on location location on channel 4 last week.

I have a very nice home pay for buy hard work. It Cost Rolex £500 to make a watch maybe they should pay the sales more for there hard work.

Dan,

I don’t live in a 6 bedroom house in Mayfair, for the same reason, I can’t afford to, so live somewhere else...

Other parts of Reading are available, Liverpool Rd is much more affordable for someone if RG4/5 is out of minimum wage reach ‘based on location program’


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[GOAT]

Do the deal but video it.

Then blackmail him for 500 or you’ll dob him in....
Result! A Daytona at 500 under list!

Only joking folks😉

[murkeywaters]

Christ... this is the UK not the Congo or Zimbabwe, I mean paying back handers to an individual in a shop in a UK high street for a watch is just way wrong in every sense of the word..

[anz3001]

What a thread, lol.

Salesman/salesman's friend is a tool. Anyone that pays the 'fee' is a tool. We've also seen how much damage can be done when the mighty fall(or get pushed) from their soapboxes so I wouldn't read too much in to that.

Personally I'm neither surprised, impressed nor offended by the situation.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Totally and utterly unacceptable. "My" contact at "my" AD has gotten me some hard to find pieces, I drop off a nice box of chocolates or flowers when she does. But a bribe?

To be honest I'd be straight on the phone to Head Office and explaining I'd spill the beans as long as I got the chance to buy that Daytona at retail!

[anz3001]

I can’t work out if the irony is intentional there....

[LaurasOtherHalf]

I can’t work out if the irony is intentional there....

In my post? For what amounts to no more than a pleasant tip? My staff keep all of their own tips, I wonder if I should question the overtime they claim for fitting in those best clients who drop off a bottle of fizz at xmas and leave a tenner after paying?