I'm after some advice please on a piece of land we own and want to do something with but the neighbour wants and seems to think she can claim.
We have a house in an 11-year-old development where a small piece of our land is outside the front garden hedge and the rear garden wall, so it looks like it isn't ours. It looks like it's part of the neighbour's garden, with a path on which we have right of way leading to her front door and on to both our back gardens splitting this triangle of land from her front garden. I mentioned to the neighbour that I want to move the hedge to incorporate the land and stick a gate in the back garden wall to link front garden with back garden which will massively improve the way our outside space works.
The neighbour said she was going to ask to buy it from us (we moved in 15 months ago and I suspect instead she was hoping we wouldn't notice) and said she considered it part of her garden anyway. She asked the previous owners if she could buy it and they said no. She told us she's instructed her lawyer to look into it because she thinks she can claim it because she's lived there more than seven years and, well, I'm not really sure. I'm not convinced she's done anything with it though, the neighbour on the other side mows her lawn and our bit and there are some plant pots on it she might have put there but it's not closed off from us or anyone else and it doesn't look like she uses it for anything. Is there any way she can claim it or prevent us doing what we want with it?
In the (badly drawn by me!) diagram below our house is on the right, with a hedge coming out of the corner and enclosing our front garden. The back garden wall comes out the side of our house. The yellow area is the grass we own, with the shared path down one side and public footpath at the front. The neighbour's lawn is on the other side of the path from the area she thinks she can take.
To me it all sounds a bit odd, do you think she has any claim on it? In one breath she says she wants to get on with us and be nice and neighbourly and in the next breath she's telling us she thinks she can take it from us and has asked her lawyer to look into it. We want to put a low fence (a metre high probably) and hedge the same height there, the current hedge is almost two metres tall.
"A man of little significance"
She knows it is not hers because she’s tried to buy it off the previous owners and was planning to ask you. If I was you I’d just have the work done ASAP and be done with it. Plus, isn’t adverse possession 12 years and both you and the previous owner have objected in that time so the clock starts again?
You may remember the discussion i had with my neighbours about a strip of land out the front of our house a year or so ago...
Anyhow,this is a useful link to read
Ypur neighbour is referring to adverse possession but the above link refers to that and you will see it is a period of 10 years that needs to elapse. You could also argue that that period has been broken by you and N buying the house I.e the period to challenge misuse of the land needs to be reset.
I'm assuming it clearly shows this as your land on the Land Registry documents as well as detailing the use of shared access in your deeds?
Little known fact is that land boundary disputes can be covered under your house insurance so worth checking.
Sounds to me as though initially you may as well let her spend some money on taking to her lawyer in the hope that she will come to the decision herself that she has no claim on the land whilst you just get on with the work you want to do....of course she might come back with a completely different view and then it becomes a different ball game. Boundary disputes over small bits of land can rack up big bills!
Possession is nine tenths and all that. Claim it. It's easier to possess and fight it.
This weekend just start doing something with it. Start preparing the hedge, watering etc.
As above. If you start doing something with it, perhaps put up a small fence - it will then be down to her to fight it. Better that than her claiming it and you having to spend out fighting her!
From your diagram, it seems clear the land is yours. Adverse possession would only be a factor if you hadn't objected to her usage within the last (I think 12 years?). Either way, you've objected, tell her to bugger off.
It probably makes a difference if you live in Scotland or England - but your sig doesn't give much away
Make it absolutely clear to her that it is yours
The laws on adverse possession have changed relatively recently, and it is now much more difficult for somebody to claim ownership of land which s registered.
It's worth reading the government's official advice here: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...egistered-land
I’m surprised nobody’s mentioned letterboxes and excrement yet.
Thank you all. I've looked up care of beech hedges and see the best time to plant is October, so I'll arrange for the carpenter to come over and do the fence then. I'll have a chat with the neighbour before then but I suspect if she has or hasn't contacted her lawyer I won't be hearing from her.
"A man of little significance"
Someone tried this trick on a part of land I own which had been left neglected - the neighbour had been growing vegetables on it and had even had plans drawn up for a house they wanted to build on it - even made them self a little gate onto the plot. They even admitted they thought they could claim it due to it being unused!!(cheeky sods!!) they soon got wind that under no circumstances do they have a claim on it!!
Just tell her It is attached to your living room, so you’d rather keep it… and, to be neighbourly, ask her for some input on how she might want it to look? - As you wont really see it!!!Originally Posted by Foxy100
It’s always worth getting on with the neighbours!
Last edited by Wolfie; 5th August 2018 at 10:21.
If it's on your deeds, outlining that the land is part of your property and it's recorded on the land registry. It's irrevocably your property.
My advice: Seek confirmation of this from your solicitor. Once confirmed, built a physical barrier ie, a fence, a wall.....
Or sell it to your neighbour?
Job done.
That's actually not true.
Suggest that you have a look at the HM Land Registry link I posted earlier - Practice guide 4: adverse possession of registered land - https://www.gov.uk/government/public...egistered-land
She has admitted wanting to buy it so admitted it's not hers. It's your land.
Do what you want to do with it as soon as possible and don't consult her any more.
ook
I disagree with yourstatement sir. I’m no expert, but I interpret things differently to what you are saying here:
Please read Schedule 6, paragraph 5 of the Land Registration Act 2002.”Very importantly, the squatter must decide what they will do if the registered proprietor, or someone else served with notice of the application, serves a counter notice requiring the registrar to deal with the application under Schedule 6, paragraph 5 of the Land Registration Act 2002. If the squatter wants to rely on one or more of the three conditions in that paragraph, you must ensure that this is stated in the form ADV1 and that the statement of truth or statutory declaration contains the facts that enable the squatter to rely on the condition or conditions (Land Registration Rules 2003, rule 188(2)(g)).”
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/9/schedule/6
I suggest, if anyone else’s property is situated on the land, to remove it immediate, if they dispute this then seek an eviction notice, which will give your case more weight. I would then erect a physical barrier and seek legal advice in the event of the neighbour claiming the land.
Looking at the rough drawing, the land adjoins your house not the neighbours so I think it's pretty obvious it is yours unless she can prove otherwise.
Besides who offers to buy some land if they believe they already own it?
Cheers,
Neil.
You stated that if the land is registered, then it is irrevocably the owner's.
The section of the Land Registration Act, 2002 which you quoted lays out three separate conditions under which a squatter can acquire the rights to that land, so it is hardly "irrevocably" the owner's. (And that's leaving aside the - pedantic - point that if the land was irrevocably the owner's, then they would never be able to sell it!)
I again refer you to the link that I posted, which says, inter alia, "after 10 years’ adverse possession, the squatter will be entitled to apply to be registered as proprietor in place of the registered proprietor of the land", and that even if the registered proprietor should, at that point, object, "in the event that the application is rejected but the squatter remains in adverse possession for a further two years, they will then be able, subject to certain exceptions, to reapply to be registered as proprietor and this time will be so registered whether or not anyone opposes the application".
Hi op.
Ask her to put her offer to buy in writing for your consideration.
In the OP's case, yes. Do you not agree?
If someone allows another person to claim their land after 10 years, then they deserve to lose it in my opinion. Thus deeming your point correct.
Involving the nieghbour from the start is the way to go - keep them informed on what your intentions are with that bit - and if you do want to sell it you aren't going to be able to use that path anymore... that'll be the first thing to go
Actually this is pretty damn clever.
It certainly establishes the principle that she does not consider she has a legal right to claim it for zero consideration. That having been said if she does have legal advice, she might be savvy enough to make it on a without prejudice (as well as subject to contract) basis.
To claim adverse possession she would need to show exclusive possession. In essence that she (or persons on her behalf) have solely been responsible for maintaining that area and indeed exclusively using it for at least ten years.
If it is an 11 year old development I would discretely check if she is the original owner and has been there for 10+ years as you mention she has been there more than 7. I would also make sure I mowed the lawn asap a couple of times to make it clear you are exerting control as owner and frankly it would be sensible to get any items she has placed on that area removed, or a "softer" version would be to place your own objects there to break the claim of exclusivity.
Ultimately if you have a neighbour who chooses to seek adverse possession then you have no relationship anyway. It is only one step above theft in my book if it is clear the title belongs to you.
Finally I would also check the responses you got to contract enquiries when buying. There should be a section in the standard responses that deals with boundary disputes and I'd be quite certain nothing has been flagged. If it does become the subject of a dispute, you will need your seller to assist in painting the picture that the neighbour had not been allowed to have exclusive possession in the period before your purchase, consistent with the legal statements they made when selling.
You can check when they purchased their house on mouseprice.
Also, I'd have some plant pots or something on there yesterday, just to show your intent.
Good luck, hope you don't fall out over it.
Those situations rarely end well...
No legal advice from me but I concur that you should try and keep communicating with them just to avoid having nasty neighbors in the future.
If you don't use it then offer it to the neighbour for silly money, then buy a watch .
I'm going to have a chat with the neighbour about it. I only really need half of it so I can get a gate in and connect rear and front gardens, and I think we can work out something. I'm wary that I will be applying for some planning permission soon and all the neighbours seem to be ok with it so far, I don't want to scupper any of that.
Thank you for all the suggestions!
"A man of little significance"
As stated above, if prior to 2003 adverse possession requires 12 years continuous use. Assuming the land is registered, she'll have to have been using this land for 10 years, your neighbour can ask her solicitor to write to the registered owner (you) to establish ownership to claim adverse possession and you'll have 2 years to respond.
Last edited by Alex L; 7th August 2018 at 14:48.
[QUOTE=Foxy100;4847710]I'm going to have a chat with the neighbour about it. I only really need half of it so I can get a gate in and connect rear and front gardens, and I think we can work out something. I'm wary that I will be applying for some planning permission soon and all the neighbours seem to be ok with it so far, I don't want to scupper any of that.
Thank you for all the suggestions![/QUO TE]
I would sell her nothing. She seems to think that your property already belongs to her. Who knows what you will need it for in the future.
Establish ownership first. Then let it to her for a couple of quids a year.
This way she gets the enjoyment and you keep ownership and good relationships.
It will come useful when you sell your house.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
[QUOTE=johny;4847864]Moreso if you ever sell the house... I would not purchase a property with a piece of land butting against my house being owned by someone else.
However, I also agree with steptoe!
[QUOTE=canuck;4847870]This ^^^
You need to think about a future sale if you decide to move.
This is very sound advice, in my opinion.
If you are not really fussed simon, you could offer her ‘planting rights’. She can preen it as she wishes, but ownership remains with you.
Peppercorn on an annual basis, renewed every year withdrawn entirely at your discretion.
Sent from my iPad using TZ-UK mobile app
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
