Car restoration, anyone ever done one?

[Martylaa]

Has anybody me on here ever been through a car restoration? Either if you have done it all yourself or sent it out to someone to build for you?

Any advice or pointers please?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[saintsinner]

Yes, mine is still on going, but nearing the end. I did all the mechanical and electrical work myself and sent the body to the professionals, although the interior hasn't been done yet that will be out sourced as well. It is a painful experience in time and money, but ultimately i hope will be worth it, i had, had the car a long time before the restoration which is the reason i did it, i wouldn't buy a car with restoration in mind. Mine has been done sympathetically working on the principal the car is only original once.

[unclealec]

My business for 35+ years specialised in RM Series Riley cars. We were jack-of-all-trades, master of none. Mainly repairs to timber frame and mechanical rebuilds.Still trades under a much more enthusiastic older owner.
Type of car is crucial. Some you can buy everything off the shelf, some you have to make it all yourself.
Your skillset is also very relevant.

[Foxy100]

If you're doing it yourself, fine. If you're paying someone to do it, run away screaming and save yourself a big pile of cash and hassle by buying a car someone else has lost a lot of time and money restoring.

[Martylaa]

Urghhhhh really, it’s a complete car just needs re-doing back to restored as new type...

Starting to sound t it all now, maybe get speak to a garage or two tomorrow...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Incredible Sulk]

If you're doing it yourself, fine. If you're paying someone to do it, run away screaming and save yourself a big pile of cash and hassle by buying a car someone else has lost a lot of time and money restoring.

Depends. I can spray, but a pro does it better. I can weld, but a pro does it better. I can trim..... You get the picture. That left the pay someone to do it properly option on the table. I've just spent about £25k having my TVR Chimaera rebuilt properly. (The way I wanted it).

Yes, you're right I'll never get it back, but then again I'm not planning on selling it anytime soon. I'd have been better off trying to buy one with all the work done, but decent ones are few and far between. There are a lot of bodged ones out there though.

[Motman]

I’ve done a couple. Did most of the work myself as I’m in the trade but got friends to do the spraying. Luckily, I did them at work in (mostly) my own time so had all the facilities to hand but still hard, time consuming work and at the end of the day, it’s still a 40 year old car with 40 year old steering, brakes, sears, suspension, heating..........

The fun for me was building them - I bought them in pieces. Got loads of comments/looks when I went out in them but the wife hated people looking at us and would slide down in the passenger footwell so unless I wanted to go out hoping around in them, they just sat in the garage. I sold the Lotus for £4.5k to the chairman of the Scottish 1600e club and the Escort for £6.5k to someone who worked on the Force India F1 team.

Genuine Cortina Lotus

https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/album?album_id=21883866

Mk1 Escort RS2000 replica that I made from a base 1100 shell - Just found an old thread of the rebuild on Turbosport. http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=86189

More build pics here.

https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/album?album_id=25818628

[gettinon]

Many times mostly VW Vans, which having the advantage of knowing them ensured that
1, Make sure you are restoring an original not some elses previous poor bodges
2 You will be doing more than you think and carriage for panels etc adds up, try and order as much as you can in one glorious hit.

[Martylaa]

What if it was a complete car with all the bits already sourced, rust already done but the guy just doesn't have the time to bring it up to as new standard and get bits re-finished.

Its a car I always wanted, purely standard with all history and this has it, was thinking about contacting some garages who do restores...

[Fezz]

I used to do it professionally. I wouldn't do a full restoration for myself unless it was a very special car and there was literally no other way I could get my hands on one. However much you think it's going to cost, however long you think it is going to take and how much patience you think you'll need, double everything and you'll probably still be short.

This ^^

I'm painfully close to getting my build running properly and it costs a lot more than double the budget. It's taken 4 times as long and I can't tell how many times I lost my patience and just wanted to sell up

[thieuster]

Done a few, yes.

upload picture

A few pointers:

Having it done mostly costs more than you expect / get quoted. Simply, add 100%. It's not the workshop that's too optimistic about it. In 99% of the cases, the owner wants upgrades, better this-and-that. And that's expensive... You can save a lot when you do most jobs 'in-house', but realise that you have to buy/rent tools.

When doing it yourself, make sure you have ample room to store everything. 4 - 5x the car size is adequate. Smaller barns etc work perfectly, but the whole resto will take more time because you have to work your way around parts etc. Although, my friend Peter has restored 3 Award-winning TRs in his single car garage.

If it's your first car, make tons of pics. Really, picture even the smallest detail. It will help you enormously.

The steps if it's really your first attempt:

• Focus on a car that is backed by tons of parts (sellers) or even factory-new parts (like the German brands)
• Get info about the car, join a club/forum. Tell everybody that you're starting a resto.
• Try to establish if there are local shops for specialists jobs: engine overhaul, powder coating, interior jobs etc. Local = easier, more involved. Try to find evidence of their work that they did on other cars.
• Buy all sorts of workshop manuals
• Read the manuals and start asking questions about the items you don't understand.
• Buy a car. Get the best possible car you can find. Don't think: 'Oh I can rectify that later on...' Ask forum/club members to help you source a car. Take them with you on your journeys. The price of a ploughman's lunch can save you thousands of GPB's later on during the resto...
• Put the car in the barn/shed, step back and leave it there for a day or two, three. Let the adrenalin level go down again...
• Make a list of the jobs you see that need to be done.
• Do not pick up a spanner before you've set up a proper storing and labelling system!!! Again, ask on the forum etc.
• Make a plan of what you're about to do with the dismantled part: off to the blaster? Store them? etc.
• Make sure you have the correct tools for the job. Open spanners, ratchets etc. Good quality is cheaper in the end.
• A blasting cabinet is oh so therapeutic. Makes you happy every time you use it.
• Big fan of air driven tools here. But make sure you have a BFC (Big F....ing Compressor). Not that nifty DIY stuff, go industrial!
• Dismantle - assess (ask help when you're in doubt) - try to re-use parts (often better than fake that's made in a sweat-shop somewhere in the east...)
• Start repairing. When welding is involved: take a course first and invest in proper protective gear (including fire extinguishers...)
• When the engine needs to be done, have it do as late in the resto as possible!! A restored but untouched engine will develop rust inside again...

Have fun. And if you have other questions, just ask.

And oh, I have a Porsche 914 for sale.

[Martylaa]

Done a few, yes.

upload picture

A few pointers:

Having it done mostly costs more than you expect / get quoted. Simply, add 100%. It's not the workshop that's too optimistic about it. In 99% of the cases, the owner wants upgrades, better this-and-that. And that's expensive... You can save a lot when you do most jobs 'in-house', but realise that you have to buy/rent tools.

When doing it yourself, make sure you have ample room to store everything. 4 - 5x the car size is adequate. Smaller barns etc work perfectly, but the whole resto will take more time because you have to work your way around parts etc. Although, my friend Peter has restored 3 Award-winning TRs in his single car garage.

If it's your first car, make tons of pics. Really, picture even the smallest detail. It will help you enormously.

The steps if it's really your first attempt:

• Focus on a car that is backed by tons of parts (sellers) or even factory-new parts (like the German brands)
• Get info about the car, join a club/forum. Tell everybody that you're starting a resto.
• Try to establish if there are local shops for specialists jobs: engine overhaul, powder coating, interior jobs etc. Local = easier, more involved. Try to find evidence of their work that they did on other cars.
• Buy all sorts of workshop manuals
• Read the manuals and start asking questions about the items you don't understand.
• Buy a car. Get the best possible car you can find. Don't think: 'Oh I can rectify that later on...' Ask forum/club members to help you source a car. Take them with you on your journeys. The price of a ploughman's lunch can save you thousands of GPB's later on during the resto...
• Put the car in the barn/shed, step back and leave it there for a day or two, three. Let the adrenalin level go down again...
• Make a list of the jobs you see that need to be done.
• Do not pick up a spanner before you've set up a proper storing and labelling system!!! Again, ask on the forum etc.
• Make a plan of what you're about to do with the dismantled part: off to the blaster? Store them? etc.
• Make sure you have the correct tools for the job. Open spanners, ratchets etc. Good quality is cheaper in the end.
• A blasting cabinet is oh so therapeutic. Makes you happy every time you use it.
• Big fan of air driven tools here. But make sure you have a BFC (Big F....ing Compressor). Not that nifty DIY stuff, go industrial!
• Dismantle - assess (ask help when you're in doubt) - try to re-use parts (often better than fake that's made in a sweat-shop somewhere in the east...)
• Start repairing. When welding is involved: take a course first and invest in proper protective gear (including fire extinguishers...)
• When the engine needs to be done, have it do as late in the resto as possible!! A restored but untouched engine will develop rust inside again...

Have fun. And if you have other questions, just ask.

And oh, I have a Porsche 914 for sale.

Wow, thanks for the pointers and advice all, its food for thought...

Was offered something I thought was reasonable considering a complete rebuilt car is probably 2 1/2 times the value would of paid for the completed package to restore and tbh theres not that many about...

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Wow, thanks for the pointers and advice all, its food for thought...

Was offered something I thought was reasonable considering a complete rebuilt car is probably 2 1/2 times the value would of paid for the completed package to restore and tbh theres not that many about...

That still does not make it absolutely worthwhile TBH.

The time and effort is considerable (as already posted).

[thieuster]

[QUOTE]Was offered something I thought was reasonable considering a complete rebuilt car is probably 2 1/2 times the value would of paid for the completed package to restore and tbh theres not that many about...[/QUOTE]

C'mon! Lay your cards on the table!!

... I forgot to mention: when it's a first-time resto project, don't be tempted to buy a completely dismantled car. 100% certain that vital parts are missing. Been there, done that, drained my wallet.

Restorations of ordinary cars from the 50s, 60s or 70s cost more (in general) than their value will be. Even if you do it all by yourself. A proper paint job will set you back at least 4 - 5K and more if it's a large car. Like having your Rolex done: there are cheaper addresses for maintenance, but most can't deliver perfect quality.

My advise is: buy a properly restored car with a ton of resto pics. No pics, no deal. You'll notice that you'll have to start tinkering no matter the quality of the restoration. Knowing what I know now, I would go out for a German classic like a BMW 2002 or similar. Easy to work on, plenty of parts, easy to tune and still good for daily driving. Those cars are getting more expensive. But restoring (full resto) one will be at least 25% more expensive.

Menno

[Dave S]

My Porsche engine rebuild is still not done a good couple of years on.
Mind you I can blame a house move for some of the delays, but even so that’s a small part of a restoration, and I have the tools and skills for lost of the jobs.
What is the car?

Dave

[adrianw]

Engine and box are out of the noble, clutch release gave up. While it’s in bits every part is getting painted or polished, not a full restoration but the engine bay will look better than ever

[hilly10]

save yourself a big pile of cash and hassle by buying a car someone else has lost a lot of time and money restoring.

This

[thieuster]

Engine and box are out of the noble, clutch release gave up. While it’s in bits every part is getting painted or polished, not a full restoration but the engine bay will look better than ever

Have a look at the brake and fuel pipes when you're busy working under the bonnet with the engine out. Brilliant moment to tackle that as well.

Menno

[walkerwek1958]

I`ve got 'previous' for restoring MGBs, totally rebuilt an MGB GT in the mid 80s when I was a young man, took me 3 years and almost bankrupted me. Did another one a few years later, a much better car but still took 18 months; I sold it shortly afterwards and lost money on the car.

Best classic car I`ve owned was a 1972 TR6, bought in 2001 from a classic car dealer. The car was excellent, the subject of a very thorough rebuild in the mid-90s, a great example of buying the best car you can find (and afford). Over 10 years of ownership it needed work (they always do) but I did all that myself. Crucially, the body and paint were 'right' and stayed right, that's v. important.

Fast forward to 2014, following recovery from illness my 'get well present' was a freshly rebuilt MGB Roadster. I made a mistake with this car, I agreed to buy it having seen it partly restored, and it's fair to say the final product fell far short of my expectations. A bad day's business, I`m still playing 'catch up' trying to get it right. to rub salt in the wounds I missed out on a really excellent car, rebuilt into a new shell and very well put together, but events conspired against me and I didn`t get it.....I regret it to this day!

Buying a partially restored car is absolutely fraught with problems. As already stated, you're relying on someone else's work and you're relying on all the parts being present. My experience with classic car restoration firms over the years isn`t good, there's a lot of poor work out there and I`ve been let down recently by two supposedly reputable companies. Unless you can do most of the work yourself it's best to avoid classic cars in my opinion. Paint and bodywork is the hardest bit, you need time, patience, facilities and a more than a little skill!

OP's being cagey about telling us what he's looking at.........personally can`t understand that, more info given when asking for advice leads to better answers, and more people being bothered to reply. Same happens with watches, if folks deliberately withhold details why bother trying to help them?

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Very car specific TBH.

Some are easy to do in terms of parts availably, others are not.

Very car specific.

[walkerwek1958]

Very car specific TBH.

Some are easy to do in terms of parts availably, others are not.

Very car specific.

Agreed!

[Martylaa]

Sorry guys didn’t realise I was being cagey??

It’s not like a E-Type Jag lol or a classic Porsche, it’s a car I always wanted as a young adult but couldn’t afford to insure one back in the day.
It’s something to have in the garage then take out for a weekend and maybe take to a car show depending on the quality of the restore.
It’s a Renault 5 GT Turbo, always loved the box shape, seen one which the owner says needs putting back together with some restoration to bring it back to as new factory spec, has all paperwork and history etc etc.

Que the laughter now lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WhopperSenior]

I reckon that would be a fun car to have on the road these days. Depending on the state of it, you might be ok. Any pictures?

[Saint-Just]

It’s the Alpine one isn’t it (at least I believe that’s how it was known in France I believe. There were so many...) My girlfriend of then had one, I absolutely loved it. She was bot bad either

[unclealec]

Car eminently workonable.
Next question - your abilities.
Any welding involved?
Any painting involved?

If so, consider buying one already done.

BUT - don't forget the value of having a hobby. If you will enjoy doing the work yourself, the cost is almost irrelevant.
One of the most frequently-asked questions to me is " I have just bought **** Riley; I paid £**** - did I pay too much?

My answer is always " if you get half as much pleasure fun & enjoyment out of it as I get out of my Rileys it will be the best money you ever spent".

[mickylall]

[QUOTE=Martylaa;4879731
It’s a Renault 5 GT Turbo, always loved the box shape, seen one which the owner says needs putting back together with some restoration to bring it back to as new factory spec, has all paperwork and history etc etc.

I used to have one, awful thing
Went well in a straight line but handling was terrible.
Ride quality was horrendous, rock hard bone shaker.
Turbo blew and cost a fortune, everything squeaked and rattled in the cabin it was a truly crappy car.
It wasn’t that old when I bought it but it was an unreliable heap of crap, the day it sold is still one of my happiest memories.
Go and test drive one that’s a runner and see if you still fancy one, I haven’t seen one for a long time but I’m guessing they are pretty tiny in comparison to today’s cars.
If you do buy one please don’t put any photos of it on here as my therapist tells me to avoid anything remotely connected to that steaming pile of s***

[Saint-Just]

Micky, don’t hold it in, it does you no good. Tell us what you really think!


More seriously I never had a problem with the car in about 10 000 km and it wasn’t pampered but I can’t remember driving on roads in such a poor state as the B roads we have in Kent. The ones that are like that are those under the responsibility of villages with a small budget, scarcely used by local traffic.

[Martylaa]

[QUOTE=mickylall;4879770][QUOTE=Martylaa;4879731
It’s a Renault 5 GT Turbo, always loved the box shape, seen one which the owner says needs putting back together with some restoration to bring it back to as new factory spec, has all paperwork and history etc etc.

I used to have one, awful thing
Went well in a straight line but handling was terrible.
Ride quality was horrendous, rock hard bone shaker.
Turbo blew and cost a fortune, everything squeaked and rattled in the cabin it was a truly crappy car.
It wasn’t that old when I bought it but it was an unreliable heap of crap, the day it sold is still one of my happiest memories.
Go and test drive one that’s a runner and see if you still fancy one, I haven’t seen one for a long time but I’m guessing they are pretty tiny in comparison to today’s cars.
If you do buy one please don’t put any photos of it on here as my therapist tells me to avoid anything remotely connected to that steaming pile of s***[/QUOTE]

Very honest of you lol...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bloater]

A mate had one cracking little car that did crazy speeds on country roads, especially after he spent a fortune at GT Tuning.
He sold it for a Escort RS Cosworth.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

The bigger £££'s on restoration almost always are down to bodywork and paint.

[JasonM]

Fantastic ! Nothing like nostalgia, I never had one but there were a few about in our little band of boy racers, there was a Radborn racing tuned one that was so quick. If it’s a reasonable price go for for it, classic hot hatches prices are mad these days, especially if you go for a restoration to standard, lots of modified ones but a nice straight standard one will be lovely.

[DazBock]

I’ve done two.
The first was a Triumph Spitfire 1500 bought for £900 it needed basically everything but paint. I bought it knowing nothing about mechanics or restoration but had some knowledgable friends and a wealth of manuals. Support from owners clubs is always good. Here it is finished, broke my heart to sell it but was the deposit on my first flat



Second and most recent was my Lotus Excel, it needed a lot less work and it was mostly cosmetic and electrical but still pretty time consuming. Much harder to find the right bits for but then it probably was when new!



Would recommend you doing a lot of research. Find something you like that you know you can afford to spend the money on. Above all else make sure you have the time to do it a half finished project is no good to anyone.

You really can’t go far wrong starting out with a Triumph they are fairly cheap and there are lots of bits out there, plus you can pop up the bonnet and sit on the front wheel so engine work is super comfy!


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

[saintsinner]

Sorry guys didn’t realise I was being cagey??

It’s not like a E-Type Jag lol or a classic Porsche, it’s a car I always wanted as a young adult but couldn’t afford to insure one back in the day.
It’s something to have in the garage then take out for a weekend and maybe take to a car show depending on the quality of the restore.
It’s a Renault 5 GT Turbo, always loved the box shape, seen one which the owner says needs putting back together with some restoration to bring it back to as new factory spec, has all paperwork and history etc etc.

Que the laughter now lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That takes me back!, i used to work on them, make sure it's had the hot start modification done and has had a new or good oil pump, they used to give problems and where expensive back in the 80's /90's although might well have got cheaper most things seem to have done. Wet liner engine that needs setting up properly. I still have the genuine Facom sliding hammer with the torsion bar adapter for adjusting them, used to have a nice little line of private jobs adjusting them on the weekends

[Martylaa]

I’ve done two.
The first was a Triumph Spitfire 1500 bought for £900 it needed basically everything but paint. I bought it knowing nothing about mechanics or restoration but had some knowledgable friends and a wealth of manuals. Support from owners clubs is always good. Here it is finished, broke my heart to sell it but was the deposit on my first flat



Second and most recent was my Lotus Excel, it needed a lot less work and it was mostly cosmetic and electrical but still pretty time consuming. Much harder to find the right bits for but then it probably was when new!



Would recommend you doing a lot of research. Find something you like that you know you can afford to spend the money on. Above all else make sure you have the time to do it a half finished project is no good to anyone.

You really can’t go far wrong starting out with a Triumph they are fairly cheap and there are lots of bits out there, plus you can pop up the bonnet and sit on the front wheel so engine work is super comfy!


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

That Lotus is a beauty...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Martylaa]

I’m still trying to find out more info from restoration garages hoping to speak to a couple more today...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Peter franks]

All the previous points are relevant and everything has been covered..
My question would be do you want to do a restoration? Or do you want the car due to budgets etc?
If you actually want to do it do you have facilities? Tooling? Skillset etc..
Like others have said it will cost way more than you think so? Also do you have the time? I put 650 hours into mine which was a fairly minor restoration anything big will take forever!!! Also if you have a wife and kids be prepared for arguing about how much time you spend on that stupid car
Good luck go for it

Sent from my SM-G960F using TZ-UK mobile app

[DazBock]

That Lotus is a beauty...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks. Sadly in someone else’s garage now. Must admit I never really loved driving it, weird seating position virtually lying down.


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

[Dave O'Sullivan]

As has been said, if you are going to pay somebody to do the work for you, you'll end up spending big time.
I'd imagine parts are hard to get hold of and even when it's up and running, it won't be long before it breaks again. I forget what year they stopped making them, ('92?) but I worked for Renault in '97 and there was still a guy employed pretty much full time to fix them.
I'd personally say, if you don't want to spend the money for a mint one, then don't start trying to rebuild one that needs some work. You'll end up spending that amount anyway.

Sorry.

[walkerwek1958]

Don’t underestimate the time and cost required. If you work full time, and have family comittments, you’ll struggle. When I restored cars I worked full-time but I never had kids, I also had an understanding wife who didn’t complain when I spent all weekend either working on the car or running.

Space is another factor, I had a reasonable single garage and a garden shed, but I still ended up with a spare room full of car parts. It’s surprising how much space you need. A double garage is ideal, but I’ve never had one. To work on a small car a minimum of 19’ x 10’ is needed, with a work bench across one end. A level driveway is another big advantage, you end up pushing the car in and out and a sloping drive is no use

Skill, or lack of skill, is a tricky one. Some folks have the aptitude for car work whilst others don’t. This applies to most DIY/ hands- on stuff, and most people are honest enough to know which category they fit into. An aptitude for engineering/mechanical stuff is also essential, you have to be able to get your head around how things work.

Enthusiasm in huge quantities is also a must!

[Bootsy]

Done one or two in my time. Used to do a lot of the work but time constraints and commitments ean I farm most of it out these days and project manage with a cheque book!

Thought I'd add a few of my old 'gone but not forgotten' cars

[Bootsy]

Just nearing the end of refreshing my 993.

Took it off the road nearly 3 years ago for a few mechanical bits, some paint refreshing etc.

Ended up with a full respray and a never ending list of parts and about £15,000 lighter

Basically multiply your timescales and budget of 3 and you'll be a little less shocked when you finally finish it.

[thieuster]

Bootsy, in short: the whole list of car's you've shown? Wrap 'm up and put them on my drive! Best group of Air Cooled Monuments ever. Especially the blue 356 (but that's a personal taste).

I agree with you - certainly about the costs, especially when the parts you need come in a box with 'Porsche' on it! I opted for a 100% rise of the initial budget would be realistic; restoring a Porsche will propel you into your example of total costs!

[Bootsy]

Thanks - been messing around with aircooled VWs and Porsche’s for over 30 years

Never underestimate cost of good parts

my 993 has had nearly every seal replaced and it’s frightening when you spend £1000 on a few bits of rubber and the box turns up and there’s really not much to show for it

[Tifa]

Bootsy, that KG is beautiful.
Colour me green.

[Martylaa]

Urgghhhhh, well had a couple of estimates and yep everything what you guys have said is true and more...

Even someone who’s a friend of a friend just basically said buy one already done and stay away from the restore project...

Well if anything this thread has opened my eyes and at least there has been some nice examples of some cars or vans been restored.

Thanks all, back to the drawing board...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[thieuster]

So basically, we saved you a lot of cash that you now can spend on watches

When you're at the drawing board, don't hesitate to ask again. I love this sort of threads.

Menno

[Chris_in_the_UK]

No affiliation, but this would be a decent start point.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...uality/6582935

[stiglet]

A bit late to advise the OP but I had a 911 SC stripped back , any nasty bits sorted, '73 RS Spec bodywork supplied, painted Viper green and Lightweight interior fitted (with a 1/2 cage). It was great but the injection was iffy so in went an Autofarm 1/2 race engine and an LSD etc etc

Tip - per above - there's always more to do than you first think....

NB Now for sale but 'not posting on SC for the "Bears" to get their claws into...

[JohnnyE]

If you're going to DIY it.... Make sure your future free time matches your enthusiasm!

I've a mazda mx5 spread across 2 garages for 2 years. A low mileage (40k) car that was mint.... Tainted with too many bright ideas thanks to the Internet... Dreams of a turbo conversion and ideas bigger than my free time.

I'd probably at this stage, just never do it and put all that extra cash into my main daily car... Get something enjoyable to use EVERY day.