Reply With QuoteThat is an extremely tasty watch though.
Is that really the price they are going for?
https://www.chrono24.de/omega/speedm...-id9478261.htm
The gentleman must be very optimistic.
There goes my dream. I'll never be able to justify that kind of $$$
I will have to shift to "2nd choice" and chose this for my 50th birthday:
https://www.chrono24.de/omega/speedm...-id7808005.htm
That is an extremely tasty watch though.
How much is the second choice out of interest?
The world has gone mad, and it seems the vendor has too.
I’d sooner go for a tasty Ed White and have £10k left.
https://www.chrono24.com/uk/omega/sp...GB&SETCURR=GBP
The 105003s have gone mad too. I bought and sold one on TZ not that long ago in the £2500 region.
I remember removing myself from any possible thoughts of owning a grail when they hit £3800.............
Dave
The one in the link is cheap because it doesn't have the DON bezel, if it did and in the same condition then the price would be far higher, saying that I would rather have an Ed White than a "grail"Originally Posted by mr noble
What's so 'Grail'y about it?
It's unusual, sure, but it looks cluttered compared to the Moonwatch.
Is it just rare or does it have some space flight provenance that makes it more valuable?
If I had this, I'd be selling it and keeping my Moonwatch
Actually, if prices keep going up, I might just hold onto it and use it as a pension! Although, that would depend on me having one...
M
Last edited by snowman; 8th March 2019 at 10:48.
The term "grail" applied to watches was coined originally by Chuck Maddox (RIP) about this watch, because it took him over a year and several failed failed purchase attempts to get one, making it feel like a grail quest. All subsequent forum use of the word "grail" with respect to watches stems from this use.What's so 'Grail'y about it?
It's unusual, sure, but it looks cluttered compared to the Moonwatch.
Is it just rare or does it have some space flight provenance that makes it more valuable?
If I had this, I'd be selling it and keeping my Moonwatch
Actually, if prices keep going up, I might just hold onto it and use it as a pension! Although, that would depend on me having one...
M
That's why
Dave
The watch itself is nothing special, certainly no space provenance. The movement, the Omega 1045 (Lemania 5100) is fully featured but agricultural in looks and design and was basically designed to absorb shocks when dropped by German squaddies jumping down from their Leopard tanks. Chuck struggled to find one because there were very few imported into the USA where he was looking so finding one took on a special significance but without his input it would likely be considered the grandfather of the Speedy Reduced, ie the ugly step child of the Moonwatch.
The original 5100 movement in all its plastic glory, pretty it ain't, effective it is:
And Omega's implementation:
This is an extract from Chuck's own article "Speedmaster Automatic c. 1045 in Detail".
As can be read, he searched beyond the USA for examples:
376.0822 Moonwatch case
For the final (unfortunately) installment in the Omega experience with the Lemania movement, Omega decided to produce a model of the c.1045 line which is probably the model they should have produced in the first place. Choosing the Moonwatch case as it's inspiration, only offered in 1987, the 376.0822 nearly certainly had a production run (unnumbered) of under 2,000, probably under 1,600, possibly 1,300 or even fewer [¿1,000?]. The 376.0822 was the first Automatic movement offered in a full-sized (about 1mm thicker) moonwatch case, first time Omega offered Day-Date on a Speedmaster, a watch that is nearly as easy to read as a moonwatch under duress and it has a lot more things going on the dial than a moonwatch.
It's also a watch which has become known among collectors as "The Grail". Why? It's a long story...
A personal admission: I'm the one to blame for "the Grail Watch" moniker...
My first Vintage Omega eBay purchase was nearly a 376.0822 out of Germany in January of 1999. Because the 376.0822 was in Germany, I didn't know any German (hell anyone in Germany at the time), I went instead for a 176.012 (the most common of the 7-8 Speedmaster c.1045 variants which sports a Mark II/IV style case) out of Iowa for around the same money (about $600 USD). I had owned my Mark II for 15 years at this point, that style case was a known quantity to me, and if I had a problem with the watch I figured I could gas up my Explorer and drive out to Iowa if need be, I couldn't really do that with the German watch.
About a month later I realized I wish I had bought both examples... So I stared looking for another example to purchase. And I searched, and searched, and searched. The only one I found was listed at over $10,000 on a Japanese website and there wasn't a speck of English on that site aside from "Omega Speedmaster" and Arabic numbers. It took me a year and a half to find another one (aside from the Japanese origin one) offered for sale and it was on eBay out of Philadelphia. I got into a three way shootout for it with a fellow TZOFer and one of the well healed Japanese collectors and came out in 3rd place with an winning bid well north of $2,700 (this is summer 2001). I finally tracked one down about six to eight months later with the help of another TZOFer and brought home my example. During this quest I searched with the intensity that King Arthur searched for the Holy Grail and I began calling this model "the Grail" because I was that obsessed with it.
para removed
I know at least a half a dozen collectors who now own the Grail who can tell similar tales of the hunt, the near miss(es), the disappointment, the despair and the final joy of getting one. Hence, "the Grail"!
As for the 376.0822 (Grail) itself...
* It is considered one of the rarest of the c.1045 Speedmasters (only the Mark V comes close to the Grail's rarity).
* It is the first time Omega offered a Moonwatch case styled Speedmaster with:
an Automatic Movement
Day
Date in a window aperture (the 345.0809 had a date pointer)
24-hour indication
* It also utilizes the 1450 bracelet, which was by far the best bracelet Omega had used with the Speedmaster up until that time and is highly coveted by collectors
* It sports the most easily readable dial of the c.1045 Speedmasters. (frankly, the other c.1045's dial readability isn't even in the same league as the Grail. I've had owners of other c.1045 Speedmasters scoff at this assertion until I pull out my 376.0822 and bit tongues and cheeks rapidly occur)
Last edited by Stanford; 8th March 2019 at 12:29.
Thanks for the explanations.
One man's Grail, is another man's Speedy Reduced's Grandfather, I guess....
M
So making money is a waste of money? The value of this will only go one way.
I suspect if the discussion was around a Daytona you’d have no issue.
Usual Omega’s aren’t allowed to go up in value weirdness from oddball forum members
Cool, I never knew and never understood why everyone was so crazy about them.
I wouldn't be quite so certain about that. History teaches us that asset classes like vintage watches, classic cars, antiques etc are cyclical and certainly do not 'only go one way'. I personally wouldn't be sleeping easy if I had 5 figures tied up in something like the so called Grail. A recent Daytona too might not necessarily be as copper bottomed as some think if push came to shove, there are just too many about. Something truly rare and special might ride out any gathering storm better, but a 1980s piece like this? Not so sure. If you have had one for a while, maybe picked it up for a song and have seen asking prices rise then good luck to you, but I wouldn't be parking money I needed back in one at current prices, whereas I would have more faith in a 1960s model retaining value.
Last edited by Padders; 9th March 2019 at 15:51.
I can't disagree. I think the prices being asked for 'Grails' are ridiculous (not that I'll be selling mine for anything less), however, they are considerably rarer than your average Daytona (or most Rolex for that matter). Besides, in 20 years the 1980s waches will be as old as the 1960s ones are now
Last edited by Stanford; 9th March 2019 at 17:09.
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