Reply With QuoteA company being British does not justify blind support.Originally Posted by henk
I like the concept of a small British manufacturer producing quality watches , but their products hold no appeal to me. I find the marketing cringe-worthy, the aviation thing was all a bit childish, but I’m not into any form of marketing that involves association with an image so perhaps I’m not the best judge. If manufacturers stuck to making watches, advertising them, telling us the technical spec and price, then letting us decide whether we liked them or not ( we are grown- ups!) the world would be a better place in my view.
The in-house movement claim wouldn’t put me off, I place little if any significance on this.
Size matters to me, I dislike big watches. To date everything Bremont has made has been too big and too thick, so at that point I switch off.
I wish them well, but my taste and their watches seem destined not to coincide. I could overlook the marketing crap if they made a watch I liked.......to date they haven’t done that!
A company being British does not justify blind support.
HMAF? Don't make me laugh. They're inventing acronyms now. I Googled it and the first site up was this site, offering 10" figurines in appropriate uniforms... the English Brothers in action with Monsieur Bremont being the one wearing the oxygen mask, to protect his identity. Wasn't his first name Walter?
Ha ha! About 8 years ago, I remember meeting the guys from RAF marketing department and they showed us those figurines.HMAF? Don't make me laugh. They're inventing acronyms now. I Googled it and the first site up was this site, offering 10" figurines in appropriate uniforms... the English Brothers in action with Monsieur Bremont being the one wearing the oxygen mask, to protect his identity. Wasn't his first name Walter?
I also remember there was a big battle in the early 2000's when the MoD took Ben Sherman to court for using the RAF roundel. I think the MoD lost that one.
Move on. It's nothing Rolex haven't done.
I have moved on to the point where I'll never own a Bremont of any type, ever.
Can't stand the faux brand.
The post 2 up from dkpw sums it up nicely.
Last edited by reggie747; 28th February 2019 at 08:28.
Sorry, Not the best pictures
Rolex manipulate the market? What for all watches and price points? Or do you mean they look after their best interests, as any business would.
And what artificial demand? The demand is real, probably won't last for ever, so why wouldn't they enjoy it while they can?
"Having to play stupid games just to buy a watch" - no one is forcing anyone to 1. buy a Rolex, or 2. play the AD games.
People who choose to buy Rolex, and choose to accept the conditions of sale, have made that choice for themselves.
Oh most Rolex buyers aren't watch "fans" well not in terms of this micro eco-system anyway.
WOW they really are committed to the faux associations and fake history / age of the brand.Sorry, Not the best pictures
Apparently it's legit. According to the internet anyway
https://www.google.com/search?ei=RdB...60.e-6kTjB5XRs
British Armed Forces, also known as Her Majesty's Armed Forces.
Well I never, a new one on me, and I've never until today heard any one use HMAF
Yes Rolex are looking after their best interests (like any other business). The result - Whether you're a watch fan, a flipper or just fancy buying a nice SS Rolex watch for a special occasion means you having to play silly and ridiculous games with AD's or pay rather large premiums to get one. I am fortunate to own both Bremont and Rolex watches and love them for different reasons. If you were to ask me which brand I respected more for their current business practices, in terms of their customers (rather than as a money making machine), it would not be Rolex.
Before selling my Bremont recently, I contacted them to see if they could provide a replacement box / watch-roll &/or any other bits and bobs that I could pass on to the buyer ...
One telephone call to the extremely pleasant and helpful receptionist who said she would pass me on to a colleague. One conversation with the equally extremely pleasant and helpful said colleague. Less than a week later, at no cost, to an overseas address, arrived a beautiful, large leather watch-roll in a presentation box, together with a strap tool and some technical docs. Bremont's CS is simply outstanding.
Lovely people in person as well... really enjoyed been shown around both the main campus and the machine rooms where the cases are manufactured.
I do laugh at how any thread involving Bremont blows up.
At the end if the day the luxury watch (or any product) market is there to persuade us the customers to buy their expensive wears.
To grab you and influence your decision they need to have a story or an angle. Some firms have that story going back years - others have a limited history in the market but still need to create something for the segment they want to thrive in.
Rolex from what i can see manage their supplies in a way where it would seem they are never sitting on unsold stock - the grey market has no bearing for them as they see none of the inflated prices - their sales are to the their ADs.
Likewise the vintage market is probably not much to Rolex other than a headache.
Breitling have the same approach as Bremont - they have been around a bit longer - well at least since the brand was revived in its current incarnation (which recently does seem to moving away from their pure aviation roots)
At the end of the day you either like or not.
In this case I am not sure on the new range - if i was looking for that sort of watch I would be looking at the Vertex ones, maybe some of the Longine Heritage models as well.
Though I am waiting on the Altitude S301 to be released later this year
Cheers
Matt
Last edited by MattH; 28th February 2019 at 17:17.
This phenomenon of raking up same issues with Bremont every time discussion of Bremont watches comes up is nothing new or isolated. Same things happpen on Rolex threads. Or Richemont watches. Same old arguments and bellyaching. For some, this hobby is not complete without griping. To them, it is more than just enjoying the watches. Putting down brands, pitting one against the other and dredging up same arguments and criticisms they have made a hundred times before sometimes seems to give them more satisfaction than watches themselves.
Personally, I think Bremont makes quality watches that I enjoy wearing. I am not marrying the company or the brand.
The prices if bought new are high and they don't hold up well. So, I prefer to buy them preowned. No lives are sacrificed in making their watches. There is no stigma attached to owning them. If some don't care for their association with the forces and that prevents them from buying them, it is fair. We don't need to hear the bellyaching again and again and again. Just learn to enjoy watches for what they are. No need to regurgitate the same criticisms endlessly- be it Bremont or Breitling or Rolex or Swatch or Richemont.
End of rant:-)
Thank you for that, very informative!Sent from my Pixel using TZ-UK mobile app
Just buy a Vertex M100 or MP45 with real connections to the forces, and far better looking in my opinion. Anyway, Elliot Brown have just become the latest, real MOD/NATO approved watch with its own part number.
Stop it Bremont, just stop. Create your own 'heritage' with quality designs not fake connections and gimmicks. You should've stopped at the Martin Baker connection and had a clause that genuine ejectee buyers couldn't sell to Walts.
What real connection does the Vertex M100 have to the Armed Forces?
What connection does the new Vertex company have to the forces? None at all. Really, none.
The new founder is a family relation of an earlier Vertex owner (no forces connection) and has the money to re-register the long-defunct name, but this is not the same organisation, and the new company has a connection in name only. How is it so much "better" to buy a defunct name and re-make a modern interpretation of old watches?
They are nice-looking watches, but in terms of overpricing they make Bremont look very goood value at full RRP.
So what? Again, this is an exercise started and completed by the supplier, getting an NSN is not the same as being "issued". There is not "real approved watch" there, the Elliot Brown is another unit pride watch. Eddie offers a few watches (at least 3 at the moment) with NSNs - and fine they are too, but it is no guarantee that it has been issued.
I understand you do not like it, but be fair, Bremont make these connections, as genuinely as Vertex, for instance.
Have Vertex gained the rights to use the HMAF logo? No. Elliot Brown? No. Bremont have. At least there is a possibility that Bremont might have paid for it, the others will not have paid at all for their "connection".
I own a Bremont, have for years. It is not an LE, and does not contain parts of historic things, because that does nothing for me. I own it because it is genuinely one of the best quality chronographs that I could possibly have bought (used) for under £2k. By miles.
The problem I have with a few attitudes here is that Bremont get slammed by people here for doing nothing different, better or worse, than anyone else in the watch game.
Both of the examples you state here are no better, more virtuous or deserving of affection than Bremont.
They are no worse either, Vertex and Elliot Brown are JUST DOING THE SAME THING, using a forces "connection" to inform their design and sell watches.
Dave
Last edited by sweets; 1st March 2019 at 22:55. Reason: spellink
I’m pretty sure they’ve just sorted themselves out with a NATO stock number. Their website gives a good story of the ‘Holton’:
The Holton Professional was developed in response to a request from a specialist branch of the military who demanded a fit-for-purpose professional watch capable of a life in the field.
It’s the first military issued watch from a British company in over ten years and prior to being approved, was the subject of intense testing, surviving some of the most hostile conditions imaginable.
I just can’t see official procurement working on a unit level like that. The story is woolly enough that I don’t really believe it.
The name is funny too...named after Holton Heath, a wartime cordite factory. Actually more well known amongst locals for a pikey caravan holiday park and a good hand car wash.
The EB is available from military stores, whether they bought/applied for/gained a NATO stock number or not...therefore a real military watch with a crows foot.
Bremont is the luxury watch brand of the UK Armed Forces? Walter Mittys more like (my apologies if you own a Bremont)
Fair one, the modern version of Vertex doesn't have any connections to the UK military per se. Apart from the modern interpretation of the original design, fair point.
HMAF...an acronym if never heard or used in 23 years service.
Actually no, it is not a real military watch, Not issued to troops, merely a watch with an NSN. The crow's foot is their addition, and there are no rights associated with it, as big a company as Longines even put it on their COSD re-issue that I guarantee has nothing to do with the military.
The EB was developed with some guys in one unit. Bremont has done that for over a HUNDRED different units, in the UK, US, France, Israel and elsewhere.
As I said before, most Bremonts aren't military, but they have been specced and procured by over a hundred genuine military units worldwide. Just do a pic-search for military Bremont and see how many squadrons and other units have made their own custom Bremont design that is only available to serving or retired personnel. They are not Mittys, joe public is not allowed to buy those from Bremont.
No need to apologise.
Me neither, as an acronym. I can take or leave it personally, but just fail to see why otherwise rational people spend so much time getting vitriolic about Bremont.
D
Vertex watches are good looking, I will grant you that.
As far as military connection, it is tenuous. Should not be an issue just as it shouldn't with Bremont.
You like them and you advocate for them. That's is fine but no reason for the hyperbole.
Thanks for the info jenksruss, I’ll go into stores on Monday and ask for an EB Holton.
I have a Vertex M100 and think it is a fantastic watch. I also really like the way the company is ran, although I do understand the invitation to purchase didn't go down well with some.
I also have an SP Bremont which I also think is great. It also came with a fantastic discount which helps.
To that end I personally think both companies have links with the military, whether past or present and I can't really see how people think otherwise. Just because I didn't walk into the stores and sign for them like my CWC, it isn't really something I get hung up on personally.
Last edited by Ghost Chilli; 2nd March 2019 at 14:57.
If you have a problem in sourcing, as there were only a few made, Windy City has one...
https://windycitywatchcollector.com/
Bremont void the warranty if an MB1 is sold on or any special project for that matter.
Went to view the collection today at the AD, new collection is pretty impressive.
The new military collection is different as it doesn’t have the trip-tick case, but a polished steel two part case. The Broadsword was quite small on the wrist but nice proportions and would be considered a classic military watch design. The Arrow was massive, height wise, and it was all polished steel in the barrel...just looked massive!
The new S300 in blue and white was nice, I just bought the Black version and it was impressive but a bit too much on the nato, would look for a navy rubber strap and it would look the business as the ceramic bezel is very nice.
S2000 were a big hulk of metal, very impressive pieces, but just too big, in the Panerai proportions and sits so high on the wrist.
The limited edition MBIII. Now I already have a white dial MBII with an orange barrel, so didn’t expect the head to be turned...I was wrong! The dial is very clean and has the feature of the MB triangle and GMT hand, the polished case also makes it stand out. I loved it, so got my deposit down and will sell my MBII to make way for it.
Overall, nothing earth shattering from Bremont, but if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Nice updates.
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Comes with both the Nato and blue Temple Island rubber strap :)
Eagle Moss on steroids.
For ref, my local auction house have a couple of blank cards North Sea's up soon. I've handled them & yes, chunky, well made, impressive and likely expensive but they, for me anyway lack that certain something.
You cannot pull 'heritage' outta thin air & I think they are trying to be something they are not. Sorry.
Happy days, will be a good seller then!
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Interesting article on the new Bremonts and military watches in general!
https://www.ablogtowatch.com/bremont...ch-collection/
Very interesting, thanks for posting
Good article, some of the comments below the article though...jeez-o!
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Reading some of those comments...there are a lot of people that really don’t like Bremont! I actually quite like the look of the HMAF chrono and three hander (without the orange hand). Shame about the “HMAF” abbreviation which means nothing. You’d think that these models are prime to have that text removed and get turned into custom dial prints for Squadrons.
It's all a bit sad really. People need to move on. There are other watch manufacturers whose sales and marketing prectices are far more questionable and doing actual damage to the sector (Rolex) but these same people blindly accept that but can't seem to forgive errors made by an up and coming watch maker
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I like a lot of them.. but ultimately i find it hard to be too enthused about a brand like Bremont.
I like the Arrow, I struggle a bit with the black hands (white paint would work so much better) but I really like the dial and the single-pusher design. Is anyone else doing a single pusher chrono these days*? I am also perplexed by the vitriol directed at Bremont, but it doesn't stop me liking some of their stuff, and it doesn't make my ALT1-WT any less of a pleasure to wear.
*Edit: I know that Vertex make one, but I'm talking about a watch I can buy, rather than apply to purchase and hope the firm will deign to sell me its product. Sod that.
Last edited by PreacherCain; 11th March 2019 at 15:42.
What does this mean? A genuine question.
For me overpriced hyped up watch company
Its only an opinion but its mine
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I'm glad someone else asked that, it did puzzle me too.
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Aren’t they all 😂
Google shows this up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Ma...Forces_(Tonga)
His Military Armed Forces (Tonga)
Its only the m100 Vertex which was the invite method. The m100b and the new mono pusher can just be bought from the website if interested.
I could be tempted but prefer the steel rather than the dlc version of the
m100... not that i have tried very hard to get hold of a invite code. Got a Bremont on order which should fill the gap. Though I do like the simplicity of the broadarrow.
cheers
matt
Here’s a crazy number: according to co-founder Giles English, 25% of*Bremont’s total business is with the military. It’s a figure that has steadily grown over the last decade, through hundreds of partnerships with a wide variety of military units around the world, including high-flying fighter squadrons, ocean-combing clearance divers, and secretive special-forces units all counted amongst Bremont’s customer base...
This makes me laugh, it may be 25% of the sales come from the military but what of that percentage is actually from the queen's purse! Very little if not none would be my approximation. I assume its mostly private purchase through military units, not purchased via a nsn paid for by the queen's purse.
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The standard issue watches are whatever is cheap and functional - so being purchased via the 'Queen's purse' means nothing very meaningful from a horological standpoint. The fact that some service people would choose a Bremont when they have access to a free service watch says positive things about the company's product.
But laugh anyway
This made me laugh:-)
Your point is obviously a very valid one.
I find it amazing that Bremont is hammered for its ‘fake’ link to the forces, yet the forces themselves account for 25% of their sales, whereby servicemen and women across the globe are literally choosing to request bespoke bulk orders for squadrons etc.
As it stands today, they literally have the most justification for the military angle as it’s typically a modded version of an existing production watch.
That said, they should focus more on the British manufacturing part of the brand, as that’s the real attraction for a lot of buyers. I have 3 Bremont watches and the MBIII 10th anniversary on order and they make great watches...maybe I should buy an Omega though, as James Bond and MI6 is less controversial apparently ;)
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Why does it make you laugh? Gone are the days when the MOD purchases expensive watches for its personnel except in extremely isolated cases. You’re clearly aware that these watches are purchased by individual members of military (and non-military) units as special projects. How is it different (aside from a percentage figure) from what Rolex, Omega, Bretling and, no doubt, several others have done?
It may be the way the articles have been written but its the tenuous link to the military that make me laugh.
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