Investing

[noTAGlove]

That’s easy to say in a steadily increasing bull market.

If the market turns and you where to lose 20% of the funds value over say a 12 month period, you’ll suddenly be looking closer at the fees.

Quite, rising markets are easy to make money in, the tricky bit is knowing when to sell/exit


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I guess with the stock market performance over the last quarter, the cost of fees are now more relevant than ever. Don't want to be losing money on stocks only to be paying fees for this privilege.


Having thought I'd missed out of the stock market bull run, I'm looking to move £70k from a cash isa into a stocks and shares isa, following the Buffet's mantra - fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Mostly looking for trackers, but would also like the option of drip feeding into single stocks.


Based on reviews here, Vanguard seem the way to go? Not looking to go too cheap if the customer service and website is pants though.


What about Cavendish online? They have a trustpilot score of 9.3, whereas Vanguard have 7.7, iweb 5.1 and HL a lowly 3.5.

[-Ally-]

Be mindful that different platforms charge differently. Some on a percentage basis and some only per deal made. Obviously if you’re throwing it all in via an ISA transfer and investing in one go then that is very different from drip feeding. Many worship at the altar of Vanguard and go direct to them forgetting their funds are available via other platforms at less cost. And obviously if you go to vanguard direct you are limited to their funds and cannot do individual stocks.

These links might help you decide.

https://monevator.com/compare-uk-che...nline-brokers/
https://monevator.com/compare-the-brokers/

[Mick P]

What’s your thoughts on ready made portfolio’s from the likes of Hargreaves Lansdown?

First thing, your timing is good. The FTSE has fallen by around 15% in 2018 so you stand a chance of buying it relatively cheap but it is, as always, a gamble.

I have 50% of my portfolio in Tracker Finds, spread over the 100, 250 and 1000 groupings. The management fees are ultra low and according to a recent article in the times, Trackers beat 75% of managed fees over a period of time. These Trackers are my best performers.

The only downside to a Tracker is that when the FTSE goes down, the Tracker goes down with it whereas a managed fund can pull out of the risky companies and invest elsewhere.

[Neil.C]

First thing, your timing is good. The FTSE has fallen by around 15% in 2018 so you stand a chance of buying it relatively cheap but it is, as always, a gamble.

I have 50% of my portfolio in Tracker Finds, spread over the 100, 250 and 1000 groupings. The management fees are ultra low and according to a recent article in the times, Trackers beat 75% of managed fees over a period of time. These Trackers are my best performers.

The only downside to a Tracker is that when the FTSE goes down, the Tracker goes down with it whereas a managed fund can pull out of the risky companies and invest elsewhere.

Quite a substantial downside.

The difference between a human and robot.

[Mick P]

Quite a substantial downside.

The difference between a human and robot.

This is true, but if you intend to invest say 10 years or beyond, Trackers nearly always out perform managed funds. Some managed funds actually invest in Trackers thems at low cost and charge their clients the high rate of commission for the priviledge.

You could do what I do, 50% in Trackers and 50% in Managed. It never makes sense to put all your eggs in one basket.

[jonny]

I guess with the stock market performance over the last quarter, the cost of fees are now more relevant than ever. Don't want to be losing money on stocks only to be paying fees for this privilege.


Having thought I'd missed out of the stock market bull run, I'm looking to move £70k from a cash isa into a stocks and shares isa, following the Buffet's mantra - fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Mostly looking for trackers, but would also like the option of drip feeding into single stocks.


Based on reviews here, Vanguard seem the way to go? Not looking to go too cheap if the customer service and website is pants though.


What about Cavendish online? They have a trustpilot score of 9.3, whereas Vanguard have 7.7, iweb 5.1 and HL a lowly 3.5.

Nobody knows if the market will fall further or will go up, personally I would drip feed your 70k over 12 months .

I use HL and highly recommend them(if your isa is trackers & shares the 0.45% fee is capped at £45)

[anton863]

Quite a substantial downside.

The difference between a human and robot.

The empirical evidence shows it's an upside not a downside.

[Raffe]

Quite a substantial downside.

The difference between a human and robot.

Sorry but the track record of the humans is abysmal.

Very often investors are picking funds based on past performance in up-years, meaning it pays for fund managers to invest in risky high-beta shares and crowded and overvalued momentum trades. When the market turns around, these take the brunt of the beating.

With trackers, you get what you buy. With managed funds, not so often; and the worst is you only find out when it's too late.

Believe me, I am from the fund management industry. I have managed funds, teams of fund managers and have been CEO and director of fund companies.

[Bonesey]

What is the collective view of Robo-investments (Nutmeg, Wealthsimple and the like)? I have just dipped a toe in the water with Wealthsimple but note that they and their ilk have not been mentioned below - Are they a poor choice compared to HL and the other more established players?

I moved my SIPP from HL to my corporate pension.

But managed to stick a lump some into Wealthsimple and Nutmeg at about the same time last year.

Both of the ISA accounts got 10k, and a separate S&S account with WS got 5k.

I had to liquidate the Nutmeg account, primarily as i had unforseen expenses and secondly because it was performing worse than Wealthsimple. I pulled it out at about parity after having dropped ±3-4% and regained the same over 7-8 months.

I much prefer the Wealthsimple platform and have been contributing to both my ISA and S&S accounts through the year in varying amounts. You can see below the ROI and the fees charged. Based on a 5/10 risk profile and then skewed to a 8/10 growth profile in the last month or so.

[toptime]

I’m relatively new to investing and I’ve recently stumbled across Trading212 which appear to have no fees (literally!) and so I’m trying to understand why anyone would use a different platform, especially those with fees!? What am I missing?

[Bondurant]

They must have some way of making money, surely?

[toptime]

That’s my point, what’s the catch?
Maybe the exchange rate to buy non sterling shares is worse? Or the actual share price they sell at is worse than the market!?

[Kingstepper]

Like free apps that make money from add-on purchases (or possibly advertising).

[Raffe]

That’s my point, what’s the catch?
Maybe the exchange rate to buy non sterling shares is worse? Or the actual share price they sell at is worse than the market!?

Exchange rates yes, but the share prices they cannot tinker with (that would be illegal). They will try and sell you other products which have high fees and will potentially sell your data (check GTCs).

[toptime]

Exchange rates yes, but the share prices they cannot tinker with (that would be illegal). They will try and sell you other products which have high fees and will potentially sell your data (check GTCs).

That’s fine, I’m happy to decline their offerings. So other than that it’s free? Sounds like a no brainer to me....

[Raffe]

That’s fine, I’m happy to decline their offerings. So other than that it’s free? Sounds like a no brainer to me....

Try it, let's see how happy you are after a while. Could also see that they give you a limited offering only for free.

Not trying to say you shouldn't, genuinely interested to hear how it turns out.

[KingKitega]

There's a transfer out fee and a 180day inactivity fee too. Probably still ok to try it if you're going to be active. I too would be interested in how it goes as my HSBC trading account is quite cumbersome and opaque to use.

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[toptime]

There's a transfer out fee and a 180day inactivity fee too. Probably still ok to try it if you're going to be active. I too would be interested in how it goes as my HSBC trading account is quite cumbersome and opaque to use.

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Interesting!! I’m looking to invest long term so the inactivity fee will come into play! I’ll check it out, cheers. No such thing as a free lunch.....

[Raffe]

Interesting!! I’m looking to invest long term so the inactivity fee will come into play! I’ll check it out, cheers. No such thing as a free lunch.....

If there is no cost, you can buy and sell 100 quid worth of equities every six months just to keep it going. In a random world, profits and losses on those trades should largely cancel each other out (pick liquid stocks with narrow bid/offer).

[KingKitega]

Interesting!! I’m looking to invest long term so the inactivity fee will come into play! I’ll check it out, cheers. No such thing as a free lunch.....

Yup and don't get tempted with the leveraged CFD products too...

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[Raffe]

Yup and don't get tempted with the leveraged CFD products too...

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That's where the high fees are hidden, and I guarantee you lose all your money.

[toptime]

That's where the high fees are hidden, and I guarantee you lose all your money.

Yes I’ve read a few bad stories about CFD products. I was looking more for index funds and maybe a few stocks. Interesting to note that Vanguard Index funds are on there so effectively free access rather than paying to go direct.....

[turbomolwi]

I am new to trading and gathered some info on platforms like Plus500, trading212, etoro and some more .
I see some charges which can be an issue as overnight fees, leverage costs, For long term holding stocks.
I think its best to open a demo account with virtual money to play around and see what the actual costs are to trade or it can be lethal for your bank balance .

Interesting!! I’m looking to invest long term so the inactivity fee will come into play! I’ll check it out, cheers. No such thing as a free lunch.....

[Raffe]

I am new to trading and gathered some info on platforms like Plus500, trading212, etoro and some more .
I see some charges which can be an issue as overnight fees, leverage costs, For long term holding stocks.
I think its best to open a demo account with virtual money to play around and see what the actual costs are to trade or it can be lethal for your bank balance .

Stay away from Plus 500, you are not trading stocks but CFDs with them. E-Toro is crypto, so not investing.

[turbomolwi]

👍 thanks for info Raffe. Much appreciated

Interesting!! I’m looking to invest long term so the inactivity fee will come into play! I’ll check it out, cheers. No such thing as a free lunch.....

Stay away from Plus 500, you are not trading stocks but CFDs with them. E-Toro is crypto, so not investing.