It’s not nonsense if you want to know a vehicle is safe and is roadworthyOriginally Posted by broxie
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I’d like to think that if the seller knew there was a problem with the car, he wouldn’t have put it up for sale here on TZ just to avoid selling a member a lemon.
If you take away the red herring which is the fact that it was a forum sale, it’s ultimately a private sale and caveat emptor unfortunately.
Guys it’s all well and good saying the buyer doesn’t have no right to ask for any money back etc etc..But as a forum and the fact the car was bought on this forum which is meant to be a place of goodwill etc, do we not think normal response of “buyer beware, tough luck” goes out of the window? The car broke down within a relatively short period after purchase, shall we all just say tough luck? I don’t know the OPs financial situation but it sounds like the loss has been quite a heavy burden. It doesn’t feel right to me that the OP should suffer the whole loss. In normal circumstances away from the forum, yes I can understand he bought it sold as seen. Here, I’d like to think we don’t leave people in the lurch..
Only applicable at the moment the test was done. No indication of longevity or future roadworthiness, only how it looked at that moment. A mixed set of cheap tyres with 1.7mm of tread will pass an MOT but there is no way that could be considered safe and roadworthy (in my opinion).
The 530 miles could have been run up the day after the deal in which case we would all be saying seller give him a refund after a days ownership, or the 530 miles could have come after a couple of months of short journeys where most would say its been too long to complain, both the same mileage which does the damage but 2 different time zones.
Could also see it as the OP put over 5% of the average yearly mileage on it before the fault appeared.
Last edited by murkeywaters; 10th March 2021 at 10:48.
It would have taken me over 10 weeks to do the milage the OP has done. How long do you think a TZ warranty should last? I've never privately sold a car and if I did there wouldn't be any warranty with it and I don't see how a private individual could be expected to do so. If a warranty was important to the OP then he should have paid more and bought from a dealer.
No. I see no reason why a private sale should be held to a different standard just because it was sold on some Internet forum. If you want a warranty and some comeback, dealers provide that and quite rightly charge a premium for it.
I also think it’s out of line to pull the forum card to try and pressure sellers into giving an unofficial warranty they have no legal duty or financial compensation to provide, and simultaneously expecting stuff to be sold at “mates rates”.
I’m actually struggling to find a reason why anyone would sell anything on SC at all the way things are going.
I think this is just a case of very bad luck.
Given the way that the car failed, I doubt very much whether the seller would have driven it for 100 miles to deliver it if he was aware it could 'go pop' at any point soon.
I certainly got the impression that it was a very genuine 'warts and all' advert too.
This is a difficult one. The car was aggressively priced to start with (according to the seller, I’ve not checked) and a Cat D. Sounds like plain bad luck.
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I fully understand the pitfalls of buying a secondhand car, and not once did I ask the seller for any kind of contribution, or suggest that he has any obligation to do so.
I am pi**ed off, annoyed, upset etc but that's life. It's just a massive inconvenience and big bill that I could do without right now.
I've just got off the phone to Blue Star engines and Cranmore Racing services. They both suspect HG failure, and if it's just the HG with no cracks to the head, it's going to cost £1000. A rebuild will be in the region of £1600. If the Head is cracked, which according to them pretty much every one does, often internally then a replacement head is needed as well.
This is a really great place, with a better class of individual. I've had many great dealing with members on here, and appreciate all the input and constructive help.
If it was a car that I had sold, I would like to think that I would offer a contribution towards the repair costs, but that's the kind of guy I am, and from the sounds of things so are a lot of you. I always stress to my kids the importance of being kind and good, and that you reap what you sow. Sometimes it's not about what's legally right, its about having a strong moral compass and doing what you think is the right thing.Dice hasn't responded to my message, fair enough. I didn't ask him for anything. To be honest, It would have been nice if he would have stepped up and I would have been grateful had he have done so, but so be it. I was really happy with the car up until it died, and hope to resurrect it soon enough.
Please don't do what I did, and buy something from SC with your eyes wide shut. I should have exercised due diligence, and had it inspected.
I need to formulate a clear plan of action, as with work commitments I have to make sure that I get the car to the right garage, who give me back a working car with as little downtime and expense as possible. There are a few companies advertising on ebay but I would prefer a local garage which would make life easier if I had any issues.
Alternatively, I'm seriously considering putting it on a no reserve auction on ebay as a spares or repairs job, and it will make what it makes and then it's someone else's problem.
Let me see if I can't get a mobile mechanic out first to look at it and perform a leak down test, and take it from there.
Thanks guys
Sorry to hear of your problem, sounds like awful luck but it’s just how it is with cars. They are a necessary evil and always are costing money.
I was once on the other side of this experience. I sold a car with a full dealer history that developed a fault soon after I had sold it.
I had no knowledge of the problem it was just the timing of the fault. Initially the other party was very aggressive and unpleasant making all sorts of threats.
Had they not been so nasty I would have just taken it back but in the end I assisted in the resolution which was done under warranty at no cost to the buyer.
I learned a lot about human nature from the experience and how nasty and dishonest some people can be. The buyer made all sorts of allegations and told lies all of which were uncovered by speaking to the main dealer.
In short the buying and selling of second hand cars is a minefield and I now use a dealer to avoid the agro.
What is your location, I can do the test, I live near Harlow in Essex. one slight issue is that the test requires a compressed air supply.
Hi Aidrian, that's so nice of you to offer but as I'm in Birmingham it's a bit too far. Thanks anyway.
Buying a secondhand car privately is always a bit of a punt and it sounds like you just got unlucky this time round. The seller may or may not wish to contribute to the repair but I think it would be unfair to expect that... entirely his call as I can’t really see he’s done anything wrong.
Hope you get it sorted without too much hassle OP. I had no idea these particular engines were known to be problematic I must admit.
Sad you feel this is “just some Internet forum”. This place has been a community for lots of people and not just another Internet forum. Friendships have been cultivated and bonds made by lots. Maybe this is what people mean when they say this place has gone downhill recently...
Put it in a garage and get it diagnosed properly, you cant diagnose a car over a phone or on a forum
Sounds to me like you have been unfortunate but it happens
This is the main reason I'd rather trade in my car, or sell it to a trader. Might lose some money but no comebacks, when it's gone it's gone.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I’ve participated in a number of forums over the years, sailing, cycling, locals and this one.
I’d say I have found this forum to be the best in terms of common support and willingness to help others than any I have seen, this thread has even seen an offer of assistance. This is a good forum and I hope it remains so.
OP, that is a very pragmatic reply and I do feel for you.
Like you, if I had sold a car privately and it had a major mechanical failure very shortly after sale, I would want to open a dialogue with the buyer to agree some form of reimbursement.
Oddly though, I would never expect the same thing in return or even ask for it. That probably makes me a bit weird.
I agree with this, sorry to say but if I were the seller I would consider my responsibility for the car to be discharged if it was sold in a working condition, and if I was unaware of any likely faults or failures. My impression is that's the situation here. Hope it doesn't prove to be too expensive.
100% +1 to this.
OP - I am glad to see the way you are responding to this. I would be pretty upset too and acknowledge you have a difficult decision to make regards the next steps.
If it was me and I was happy with the car before it broke down, I would go for the repair and then run it for as long a necessary. Selling the car for parts will get you out of the issue, but then you chrysalis the loss and still need to fined another car.
Just to echo the comments about the ecoboost engine being ridiculously sensitive. I took my Fiesta to an independent garage for annual service. They replaced the oil with 5W-30 and the service sheet indicates 5W-20. No way previously I would have thought this would make a massive difference...the engine ran but it was seriously not happy with it straight away. Replacing again with 5W-20 and it was back to normal.
Every forum I’ve ever been on has been that. I just don’t think it fair to expect people to abide my some unspecified ad hoc moral code that doesn’t apply anywhere else.
I’ve bought vehicles from friends that let me down soon after taking ownership. I knew the responsibility was mine and mine alone as soon as I drove off and expect no support from them should something go wrong, nor would I accept any accommodation even if it were offered. I’ve turned down financial help from friends in those exact circumstances because friendship works both ways. it’s a private sale, if I wanted a warranty I can buy from a dealer and if the seller wanted to to be responsible for the thing after they sold it they wouldn’t be selling privately.
In fact, I think resorting to moral blackmail to try and force someone to abide by whatever rules the mob happens to dream up that day is the exact opposite of what forum sprit should be.
Each to their own.
This for certain - I fixed my mum's 80k Polo with a head gasket leak with this - thought we were driving it to the scrap heap but lasted at least another 5 years (was then sold and probably still going strong) but that was a non-turbo engine. Has to be worth a try for the small cost involved and ease of appliction.
It was this one - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311793790...evt=1&mkcid=28
K Seal https://www.kseal.com/uk
They also have one that you drain the coolant which is probably better
Good luck.
Having bought a car privately that went wrong myself within a couple of weeks of buying it (cost me literally thousands to put right), I feel very sorry for you as buyer, but equally so the seller if they are above board and sold it in good faith. I just hope for your sake that it is something as simple as the expansion tank being faulty.
I will never forget selling a fairly cheap car off my driveway, a chap paying a deposit, and coming back to collect it for it to not start. It had never (not once) failed on me in the 2 years I'd owned the car, but the battery decided to give up the ghost there and then. I changed the battery at my cost (as I frankly would have done if he'd come back to me a few days after buying it), and anecdotally, he still had the car happily years later.
I don't know either party here, but cars can go wrong randomly unfortunately. Hope it gets sorted as painlessly as possible!
I had a fiesta ecoboost for 3 years on a cheap pcp and thought it was a brilliant little car, was thinking about buying it at the end of the deal but had heard a few stories about them going pop with no warning. A friend commented ‘are you keeping that fiesta?’ And I said I’d been very happy with it. ‘I spoke to my son and he said you should get rid’ was the reply. Oh well, whatever I thought ‘why would your son know’ - he runs the main Ford garage in x town ‘ was the response. I didn’t buy it’. - I hope the OP’s situation works out.
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To the Op, when did you last check coolant level?
I have sold a few cars privately in the distant past. Each time I have given the buyer a receipt with "Sold as seen. No warranty whatsoever given or implied " written in upper case. This left the buyer in no doubt as to the situation, and I never had a buyer question this.
There are so many things that can go wrong at any time with an older vehicle, with no prior indication.
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Yep, this is the contract I use whenever I buy or sell privately:
https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/buy...lers-contracts
As useful as K-Seal is if you think that a dose of magic jollop in a bottle will fix a terminal fault on an engine renowned for eating itself such as the OP`s then you are dreaming!
It puffed out clouds of smoke - enough to make his kids eyes water presumably while they were inside the car, and now it will crank but shows no sign of starting.
If there`s any wonder jizz in a bottle that will fix this it`ll be a miracle. And i`ll buy some.
I once saw McGyver fix one with an egg...
I do get you and fully understand how pissed off you must be.
Talking about moral compasses, my current car I purchased off a Vicar and her husband, lovely people who were so happy it was a family buying their long loved car, full of chit chat and happy rainbows!
The next day I returned to pick up the car after arranging insurance etc it was a totally different atmosphere, Vicar stayed out in the kitchen and I felt she didn't want to see me, husband was very curt and wanted it all done ASAP which I thought was very strange, I took the keys and just about to say goodbye when the Vicars husband said - Oh, sometimes when its warm on a long drive its a struggle to get into 3rd gear, Okay I said with a why didn't you mention this before and left.
Couple of days later on a long drive it proved right and was hard to select 3rd, after a good rummage and google it turned out to be a cheap plastic clip in the linkage which was a known fault, I think the Vicar/Husband thought the gearbox was on its way out and had a guilt trip but it didn't stop them taking my money did it!!
The reasons for not starting can be various. One thing the OP can check: remove the plugs and check them for corrosion. If that's the case, then it's clear that there was water in the cylinders (For those of us who've owned a Saab 99 with the B20 engine a familiar problem...).
Speak to the Ford main dealer . It is a known issue a trader friend of mine has one in there and there putting an engine in foc. His was a 2015 focus . He had to push but they agreed in the end .
Buying second hand and a private sale is fraught with trepidation, unless you have it inspected or mechanical minded it’s very difficult. When I decided I wanted a Classic car which was always going to be a TR6 I spent 6 months gathering as much info as I could.
I found my ideal car and the rose tinted specs took over, I looked at the car which had been totally restored by a retired engineer, but had only covered 800 miles in three years. The car was mint and a credit to the guy.
I picked the car up and straight away realised it was only firing on five Cylinders, I spoke to the guy who said, see what’s up and ring me. We
found most of the seals within the Petrol Injection system had perished with the new Ethanol fuel corroding them. Total cost was £1100 which on top of the cost of the car was a lot of money. I telephoned the seller before I instructed my guy to fix it and he said send me the Bill. A lucky escape and the seller was a gent, but it goes to show you just don’t know with cars. I was lucky
The trouble with an inspection is that it’s all very good if something is presenting itself there and then however it looks like there was no issue for a while before failure. Unless the inspector had a crystal ball an inspection would have likely showed nothing at all.
Pretty much it, to me............
If I had bought that car from a friend - I wouldn’t even mention the failure to him, in case he felt some responsibility.
2wks and 500 miles is certainly sufficiently distant to the sale - that it is just the buyer’s bad fortune, to my mind
Yep. That echoes my thinking. The OP may drive like a district nurse or have been driving it like he stole it. The seller can't know either.
Caveat emptor. If a lack of warranty is unacceptable to you then buy from someone who does provide a warranty, it's your choice to do either.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
OP, unsure if this has been said, but if worse case scenario is refurb engine at £1600.00 then the car would still only stand you £4500.00 - inconvenient PITA yes but some you win some you lose as Im sure you are aware. Had you bought from a dealer you would still be without a car whilst it was being repaired, you prob would have paid £3K? More anyway, dealer might have fobbed you off, you would still be hiring a car....
Just remembered, a colleague at work bought a top of the range model brand new and his went pop last year at 3-4 years old, normal mileage - main dealer washed their hands, known problem, only recourse was via Ford HO, eventually signed NDA and Ford footed the bill, was without his car about 3 months before resolved.
Last edited by Suds; 11th March 2021 at 09:06.
The amount you’d spend on repairing would buy a decent reliable runaround so personally I would scrap it and do that.
Insurance?
Insurance won't cover a mechanical failure. Warranty might have but it wasn't bought from a motor trader and the OP didn't buy a separate one.
I do think this car should be looked at by a real mechanic using their eyes and hands rather than diagnosed by internet forum experts and phone calls to engine sellers.
That would be another spin of the roulette wheel. Daft idea.
Go to ford . The engines from 2012-2015 have a replacment policy . His had the same symptoms as yours and he has his car back with a brand new engine .
Do your research Ally, and it should be fine. Buy from a dealer and 3-month legal warranty if it goes kaput.
OP. That may be worth a try?
Do these help?
https://www.whatcar.com/news/ford-ec...to-know/n17972
https://www.evanshalshaw.com/focusrecall/
I'd imagine it would need a full ford service history for that to happen, I don't believe this is the case with this vehicle.
Quoted below from the linked article:
With the potential for affected cars to be up to eight years old, there are likely to be some that don’t have full main dealer service history. So, until the BBC investigation, Ford was basing its contribution to the cost of repairs to affected cars on the mileage of the cars and how complete their service history was.
However, after the investigation highlighted that a number of owners had been forced to pay for the repairs to their cars, Ford has now decided to cover the cost of 100% of repairs, including giving refunds to owners who have already paid.
In a statement, Ford said: “With any future cases, subject to being assessed and linked to potential 1.0-litre engine overheating, we will contribute 100% of the cost of repair at a Ford dealer. Furthermore, we will re-examine previous cases to ensure that this policy of a 100% contribution to the repair cost is applied consistently.”
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