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Maserati would be amazing but I'd be far too worried about things going wrong! I had use of Quattroporte many years ago, I remember it fondly!
I've owned plenty of Japanese 90's metal - all great. I've had FTO's, MR2's and an Impreza. A 200SX would be lovely, but I'd want a 'standard' one, which would not be easy to find.
I like the idea of the EOS, in fact I'm tending more towards a VW at the mo; R32, VR6 Scirocco R, maybe a Corrado or Mk6 GTI.
Lots to ponder.
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Another vote for this, very affordable fun.Originally Posted by jwg663
(Saab parts are a separate company so parts are not an issue, and there are still quite a few god indies around.)
Lots of noise on the net about EOS roofs being picky and difficult to remedy given a choice I’d take a nice SAAB 93 cab all day long.
Having had a Saab convertible back in the early 2000’s I can recommend one heartily. Very comfortable, always felt safe, good roof etc.
Sold mine as wasn’t driving it much and really needed a four door car as daughter was only little at the time. Lots of space inside. Pretty bulletproof really.
SL - lovely cars but from the 230 onwards, no back seats. The ones before had back seats but not sure how useable they actually are.
I agree it is best to avoid poorly maintained and abused 944's.
However, there are quite a few well maintained car's around.
Servicing is not nearly as expensive as anything Jaguar. Just don't go to the dealer but see a specialist.
I daily drive my 944 and have to say, my previous (corporate) Hyundai Santa Fé was so much worse when it came to maintenance and the bills for that. Yes, something can break, but parts are quite easily available at decent prices. Fixing isn't a big problem and the cars are basically well made and reliable. There is a large community and easy troubleshooting access if needed.
In 16 + yrs in the family the 944 never failed us.
I outran M3's on Zandvoort circuit with it so comparing it to a Fiesta Ecoboost ... It isn't made for the quarter mile, but I challenge you to find a faster car around the bends. If you want a fast one, go for a 951 (turbo). They can easily be tuned to 300+ hp.
The automatic version of the 944 is terrible. Avoid it like the plague. The ultra slow 3 speed is killing all the fun.
I absolutely loved both my Corrado’s, genuinely usable and affordable classics.
Bit of a long shot, but here goes. I'm getting ready to part with my lovely condition low miles (43K) 22 year old e46 328iSE . 200ish bhp, Four seats, five speed automatic, drives like a brand new old BMW. For only half your budget, keep it for a few years and possibly sell it on for a profit.
Here are a some pics.
https://app.photobucket.com/u/billym...3-2b5569fb20e2
https://app.photobucket.com/u/billym...1-b74689cacfd6
https://app.photobucket.com/u/billym...2-0a51331bfc1d
https://app.photobucket.com/u/billym...3-8195ab2e06a4
https://app.photobucket.com/u/billym...1-a94a9dfbc5b6
https://app.photobucket.com/u/billym...2-6598c7540775
https://app.photobucket.com/u/billym...4-47aded56e021
https://app.photobucket.com/u/billym...8-34c35f20baf0
https://app.photobucket.com/u/billym...c-45dfcee39926
https://app.photobucket.com/u/billym...5-91e7029f15e3
https://app.photobucket.com/u/billym...2-07985ab37057
https://app.photobucket.com/u/billym...3-d9d63bb5f4ae
Don't know what the deal is with Photobucket, it's the first time I've used it in over a year.
I've drafted up a 2000 word description to suit my ocd and while away a couple of hours during lockdown. I'll post it if you are in any way interested. Looking to sell this next month.
Last edited by billymac; 9th March 2021 at 23:31. Reason: ocd
An interesting read.
Many years ago a close family member was an aficionado - getting several from new in short succession as company cars. The early 2.5 definitely felt underpowered, the later 2.7 better, but it was the 3.0 S2 as I recall that was the best of the bunch by some margin.
I was probably a bit harsh in comparing to a modern budget hatchback - but the performance of cars has moved so far in the intervening years. Of course I would rather have a nicely sorted 944 over a piece of automotive white goods anyday, but my point (poorly put) was that if people approach classic cars thinking they will drive or perform like a modern car, then they are likely to be in for a disappointment. If it is looks and character, as a priority, then that's a different matter.
From time to time I try to convince myself that I'd love a classic Merc, or even a Corvette, but I know that the driving experience would be a long way from what I am used to, and enjoy. Huge respect to those who do preserve such beautiful machines though.
I've been in a couple of well fettled 944 turbos, and they would still feel like a quick car today, but prices for a good one climbed well above the 10k mark years ago.
So clever my foot fell off.
The 944 2.5 NA is less then ideal. However, with 3 mods it can be improved upon - a lot.
First of all you have to check the engine for health. After 30+ years you can have some leaks, a worn out rotor, bad leads and if you are going to improve the car, start with a healthy basis.
Anyway, you'll need:
1) a MAF set plus chip (Eur. 500 as a set, + 17 hp and a much better torque curve)
2) a modified gas cable roller (removes 20% travel in the gas pedal and gives a linear gasresponse, the original has a delay wich makes the car feel unneccesarily sluggish)
3) a short shifter kit (removes approx 25% of shifter travel and makes for fast and sharp gearchanges)
In total: approx 600 Eur to really transform a somewhat underpowered 2.5 NA to a very nice daily driver.
I would avoid the 2.7 as they weren't without issues, so they have been in production for a short time only. Parts availability can be problematic (the specific parts, naturally).
The 3.0 is a great car, so is the S2. Good examples are probably over 10k by now. The turbo in decent shape will set you back 20k.
Do keep in mind the 944 has a basis that went in production in the late 70's. Comfort isn't its forte, it is rather basic and a somewhat harsh ride (certainly if you drive around with an M030 sports suspension like I do).
For comfort, I go to my Daimler.
The kids prefer the Porsche (and its cornering speed.
Modern cars have come a long way and 80’s/90’s classics are not in the same league of performance, but and it’s a big but, modern cars tend to lack any personality, I’m not talking niche cars like limited run track day inspired variants, more the 911 Carrera 2 now vs the 1984 version scenario.
The modern 911 would run rings around the old car, and you would want to be in the new one if taking in a long road trip or in an accident.
The old car though has charm, smells of oil, fuel and hot brakes, makes you know your driving it with a heavy clutch and steering, sounds are more prominent due to less everything really, also older cars are A to A for me, you get them out to just drive them for the experience but don’t expect to be the fastest car on the road.
E46 M3. Might have to consider upping the budget a bit to get into a decent one, but they've bottomed out price wise, so you'll need unlikely to lose much on it (probably go up if the condition is decent).
E90 series 330/335.
Difficult to go wrong with a decent Mk5 GTi, they're so good it renders the R32 a bit pointless (unless you're desperate to burn cash into noise without much pace?). Make sure the dsg oil/filter service has been done.
Could also get comfortably get into a Merc c class coupe 350 petrol.
i had a Porsche 944S which was derided by 'proper Porsche owners' but it was a very reliable, fast and more importantly safe in terms of handling and road holding
i had an earlier 911 and in truth it was bloody deadly even in experienced hands (not me)
i remember going down Chilwell Bypass (Nottingham) in heavy rain and the beast lost all traction - and downhill roads into a bend in the wet and it would 'switch ends' without warning
and the Turbo was even worse
what was the old saying? - most new 911 owners have a crash within a month, lol
How about a Jag X350? A lot of car for the money and you should be able to find an indy to look after it.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-deta...?atmobcid=soc3
I've a fair bit of experience in this area, currently owning 4 cars that could fit into this bracket, unfortunately all manual, mk1 Mr2, Prodrive Rx-8, Mini Cooper S R53, 130i & an mx5 for good measure.
However, I note your Mercedes interest & that's where I'd suggest you look.
I owned a 2004 E55 Supercharged AMG wagon for 3yrs and sold it to my best friend who's had it for 2yrs and it hasn't bankrupted either of us. Whilst the risk of big bills is there, mostly around the air suspension system they are otherwise bullet proof. Yes there are "better" cars but the character make these very lovable and very rare.
Similarly another friend runs a CL500 in a very similar circumstances.
The wife and I had a good long chat about it last night - went through every option that'd been presented on here. My wife and I have very different opinions on things! The factors for her were that it needed to look nice and be quick, she had little interest in it being modern or classic - she wanted it simply to feel a bit special.
She hated the old Mercs - too boxy (this made me sad)
She disliked any Golf variant (GTI Mk6 and R32 Mk5) because 'it's just a Golf' - by that she meant it didn't feel special enough (also we've owned several)
She liked the 944's but research shows the auto box to be quite poor
She liked the Mitsubishi Lancer but balked at the £565 road tax
She liked the CL500 a little (interior being very similar to what we have now) but disliked the E350 coupe
She disliked the Jag XJ's - felt they looked a bit traditional (?)
We both discounted the XK's due to build quality (we looked at some and corrosion was rife)
Struggled to find Corrado's, 90's Jap metal or anything American Muscle within budget
Discounted a few things from here with comments of small back seats - my son already quite lanky!
She was very taken by the Audi S5 (or A5 with the 3.2) - not sure what rear seat space is like?
She was enamoured with the Abarth 595
She ended the conversation by reminding me that albeit we could change the car, she loves our current car and that maybe some TLC would bring it back into favour...
911's of that era weren't nicknamed "The Widowmaker" for nothing...
So clever my foot fell off.
If you can stretch a little more, how about one of these? Properly special, pretty modern, awesome performance and a lovely place to sit in a traffic jam:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaguar-xf...AAAOSwSLlgPqzy
Jaguar XFR.
500bhp.
Oh yes.
So clever my foot fell off.
I am a bad man but I'd have this one instead (same year): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2011-Jagu...c/124587093035
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Ha ha ha, very true, but 'fun' was the criteria
Of course 'cheap to run' would bring somewhat different options!
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^I completely agree with this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I had a 911 SC (1978 model) in the mid 80's. At the time it was a fairly rapid car but whilst I owned it I was also I driving some of the the newer GTi's that were being launched. To be honest the GTi's were as quick and more surefooted around the twisty roads than the 911. No scary swapping ends. The Porsche pulled back any lost ground on the straighter roads but the smaller cars were not an embarrassment either.
But the 911 had the 'character' as mentioned in other posts that the little cars did not. The 911 had the big bills, the Gti's did not!
I've had a fair few classic cars and what I see as charm and character many people see as old and rubbish!
Classic car ownership is a personal thing - you either get it or you don't!
Good luck in your search and be sure to let us know what you end up with.
I had three 924Ss and loved them all. Yes, they weren't as fast as other stuff but once moving and especially at mid- to high speed they were great, and the handling was lovely. Proper 1980s cars with that smell you remember from being a kid and doors that close with a proper clunk. I remember a Corrado VR6 failing to prevent me from passing on the A34 all the way up to about 130 when they gave up and I sailed past and some seriously rapid runs from Halifax (girlfriend at the time) to Hampshire leaving at 11pm and being home a couple of hours later. Ah, the good old days. The seats in the back are ok providing either you or your children have very small legs. I'm 6'2.5" and there wasn't room behind me (and what I also liked was I didn't have to have the seat as far back as it could to be comfortable). Brilliant GT cars though, really nice for long distance. But again, either no legs or no one in the back.
"A man of little significance"
I believe the "Widowmaker" moniker was mainly applied to the 996-era GT2 ... >500bhp, RWD, turbo ...
Certainly my experience of driving older (though not very old but definitely air-cooled) 911s is that a well setup car is a delight and definitely a heck of a lot harder to spin than a similarly well setup Lotus Elise ... the sight of the wall flashing in front of my eyes every few seconds during a multi 360 degree spin at Spa are still fresh! Because of its polar moment of inertia a 911 actually rotates rather slowly whereas an Elise just jumps at the chance.
Looks like you are right, but the term now seems to be being retrosepctively applied to a lot of earlier 911's.
I guess it's catchy!
https://www.autocar.co.uk/slideshow/...sche-911-turbo
So clever my foot fell off.
I keep reading "You know you're old when..." posts and generally I think, I'm not that old yet, but when people are describing cars from the 1990s as 'classics' I know I'm getting old
I think of classics of being at the very newest the 1970s, ideally 60s or earlier!
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
I find it staggering that almost every car from my 80s/90s youth is now on display at car shows, with the word classic used as a description and a valuation somewhere well north of what I paid/sold them for!I keep reading "You know you're old when..." posts and generally I think, I'm not that old yet, but when people are describing cars from the 1990s as 'classics' I know I'm getting old
I think of classics of being at the very newest the 1970s, ideally 60s or earlier!
M
I am officially old. :-(
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She will then get the 595...
Found this on Autotrader - quite a few choices. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...at_cars&page=4
Search was Petrol/4+ seats/ <5s to 60mph and <£10k
I really don’t get why people say that.
I had a 1989 3.2 Carrera Club Sport for 2 years, which I drove in all conditions including in the snow once when I got caught out by an unexpected dump of the white stuff. That particular journey home was very sketchy but it would have been dodgy in almost any car.
Even in the wet, when pressing on, including on track, it would always give me plenty of notice when getting close to the limits of traction and it was easy enough to catch that I never spun it. The same could not be said of the 996 GT3 I replaced it with until I’d really learned to drive it properly with the help of a Car Limits day and several tuition sessions on track.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
A CL500 would get my vote.
V8 power, luxury and room for the kids. The kids will think you won the lottery. Expensive car when new
I think you may have answered your own question there. The fact you tracked it and then had a GT3 and took tuition suggests you know how to drive a bit. A lot of people who binned them clearly didn’t have any talent.
Widow maker refers to the 930 turbos, with its bonkers weight distribution and massive turbo lag. Rear starts to go, driver lift the throttle in panic, massive over steer follows. Or you try to correct with more power but nothing happens ...
Last edited by jonasy; 12th March 2021 at 11:50.
I know where you can get a Fiesta ecoboost cheap well under your budget ...
That’s exactly how I feel, I rebuilt a 1968 MGB GT between 1982- 85 in my mid- 20’s, the cars I ran as everyday cars ( Triumph Dolomite, Opel Manta) in that era are now described as classics! This proves that I too am getting old.I keep reading "You know you're old when..." posts and generally I think, I'm not that old yet, but when people are describing cars from the 1990s as 'classics' I know I'm getting old
I think of classics of being at the very newest the 1970s, ideally 60s or earlier!
M
Mitsubishi 3000GT (no pic’s but google is your friend :0)
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He said fun. The 3000gt was a barge when new. Bloody quick for its day, but a cruiser.
What about the Saab 9-3 Aero convertible that several have suggested?
Not ignored the Saab, personally I’ve always been a fan of the brand. Struggling to find one locally to view, however.
I was thinking along these lines, but the price is 30K!
I completely agree with this - the reason I continue to use and love my 928 is down to the overall experience rather than sheer performance. 0-60, the 928 is comprehensively outgunned by my hybrid XC90, but the former comes with an outrageous soundtrack, nice smell and communicative nimbleness that the Volvo just cannot approach. The Porsche is still quick, especially in-gear where the long ratios aren’t such a drag on acceleration, but offers way less speed and power than the average hot hatch. It still makes me grin like a loon, though.
Very true, I love the 928, a design classic and if I read right it has a scary wiring loom!I completely agree with this - the reason I continue to use and love my 928 is down to the overall experience rather than sheer performance. 0-60, the 928 is comprehensively outgunned by my hybrid XC90, but the former comes with an outrageous soundtrack, nice smell and communicative nimbleness that the Volvo just cannot approach. The Porsche is still quick, especially in-gear where the long ratios aren’t such a drag on acceleration, but offers way less speed and power than the average hot hatch. It still makes me grin like a loon, though.
Ha, the 928's electrical-gremlin reputation is a bit unfair IME - it's very logical and well laid out, the problems usually arise because of previous-owner or alarm-fitter bodgery. I've tackled a variety of electrical bits on mine, and no problems so far. I wouldn't even dream of trying a fault-find/alteration without the workshop manuals and circuit diagrams though!
Fabulous car - so ahead of its time, and still looks modern.
Ten or fifteen years ago these could be picked up for peanuts, now they are often big money (and rightly) as buyes realised just how good they were, and are, and how timeless the design is.
Got a pic of yours PC - which variant is it?
So clever my foot fell off.
It’s a very late S4, after they did away with some nonsense (the unreliable and unnecessary radiator vent flaps, for instance) and added some nice bits (GTS spec soundproofing, better engine oil recovery). I’ve had it for 14 years and after an engine transplant (thrust bearing failure) and lots of other work it’s become a bit of a labour of love. I’m sure I’ve got some pics to hand somewhere...
Performance wise, as someone said up there, the most important thing is to get the car running properly to start with. Things like u/s knock sensors push the engine onto a very conservative spark map, and are hard to detect without the right kit, or the workshop manuals and a multimeter. Loads of the cheap cars are now gone, as “deferred maintenance” made them prohibitive to fix up. The ones that are left tend to be owned by nerds like me! It never fails to provide a sense of occasion, and with properly set up geo and a couple of tweaks, it’s a far more nimble machine than reputation suggests.
Also I had the Wants for one sine I was 7, and when opportunity knocked I had to have it! ;-)
The blue shark...
In good company at Simply Porsche in 2019:
More practical than you might imagine.
And that ludicrous spoiler has its uses too!
I know you said classic and no BMW
BUT
Your not far of a nice 428i M Sport auto convertible
Hardtop 4 full seats loads of fun for the family
N
.JPG)
Last edited by Neilo; 18th March 2021 at 18:22.
loved my JDM Mitsubishi GTO (3000 gt) but as has been said they are heavy unless you can find a later MR version with all the tech stripped out, but these are rare and expensive.
I noticed the OP was considering an S5 - I really wanted one but after hanging out on various forums and FB groups dedicated to them I decided that a surprise 5K bill for a gearbox was something I didn't want hanging over my head - literally every week someone new was complaining that their gearbox had gone pop either after it standing for a while (hello lockdown) or after not bothering with the gearbox services every 30k miles (iirc).
In the end I went for a facelifted A207 e-class convertible, the e400 is brilliant (I went for the diseasel which is fine for my usage) not quite as sporty as the s5 but very usable with a family and classy as hell. Cheap now too since the model change.
2005 Impreza.
Excellent WRX prodrive for that money, or a cared-for but not mint STI
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Saab 900 Turbo.
Superb PC - thanks for the pics. I recall a family member having an early one back in the 70’s - gold with check upholstery.
Yours is much more tasteful!
So clever my foot fell off.
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