Commuting - is your opinion changing in light of Covid?

[Scepticalist]

This comment about buying a property in an expensive city instead of commuting got me thinking:

Presumably because they are idiots and never heard of these things called trains.

Where do you stand on this? In the light of Covid are you changing your mind? Is your company likely to promote more home working even "after Covid"?

Obviously if you can't afford anywhere in a city that's a different matter but for me, life's too short to sit on a train for a minimum of 3 hours on top of a working day. This is even before you consider that historically city property gains value faster and the market means they also move faster.

We bought a 3 bed Victorian-era property in town for the same money as a decent 5 bed that would involve a 60-90min commute. More family time, easier access to the facilities a big city provides.

Having said this, Covid and the likelihood that I'm going to be working from home for the most if not all of the week in future changes this a lot. If I wasn't retiring soon I think I'd be looking to move outside the city for the nicer environment.

[PreacherCain]

Personally I think it’s going to be a bit of a mix - for the foreseeable, anyway. Generally we seem to be moving towards 2 or 3 days in the office, focused as much as possible on real-world interaction, and the balance working remotely. There’s certainly no appetite that I can see for a return to full-time commuting, but similarly no appetite for home working only, forever. I’m quite happy with that, I’ve been in the same bit of London for over 20 years and I like it here; by the same token I’d be lying if I said I missed the joys of the Jubilee Line on a humid Monday morning!

Obviously the above is also contingent on our clients’ desires, in the main they seem to be looking at the same sort of hybrid approach but some will no doubt go the three-line-whip route to full time office work, depending on their culture.

As for longer distance commuting, I once had a colleague who commuted to the City from Rugby every day, which he professed to find entirely satisfactory but would’ve driven me absolutely hatstand. Horses for courses, innit.

[julian2002]

It's a personal choice, some love city life and will put up with the downsides i.e. smaller property, possibly noisier (traffic / neighbors) , generally higher cost of living, no / small / communal garden etc. for the upsides i.e. shorter commute, closer / better facilities, historically better investment (although this seems to have flipped somewhat with covid) etc.

Personally I love the quiet of living in the countryside along with the bigger house, an actual garden, etc.
I've worked from home for a decade so I can live pretty much anywhere and do my job - the only reason I'm not in north Devon is that i have kids and it wouldn't be fair to move them that far away from friends and family.

[snowman]

No, I've always hated commuting, especially into London.

I've only done it for short periods, but it was a depressing experience.

Years back I calculated what I felt it would be worth it to me, in terms of salary, to take a full-time job in London (as I was always being told how much 'more' I would earn if I did) and it worked out to a 100% rise over what I was earning at the time, with a 30 minute drive to work some days, working on site others or from home on others.

No-one was going to pay me that kind of money.

There is NOTHING that would persuade me to do it these days - If I couldn't work from, or close, to home (I'm 100% home based and really only working part-time these days), I'd just give up, but I'm at that point in my life where that would be an option.

From a company point of view, I'd be surprised to see the same level of office-based working post pandemic. If you're a big corporation, why would you want to be spending 10s or 100s of millions running offices when you can just have your staff working from their own homes most of the time?

A lot of middle management liked to convince themselves (and their bosses) that only by having their staff under their beady eyes all day would anything get done, but I think that myth has been suitable shattered over the last couple of years.

M

[Geoff W]

I'm 'lucky' in that I have a direct train from Zone 3 to v near my office so I get daylight, zircon in the summer and a relatively short journey time (30 mins). That said, WFH means I get a lie in, eat healthier and eat my dinner earlier with more time to unwind means that at most I'll prob do 1 day a week in the office. Plus I save money on fares. The last year has been strange a stressful but the thought of commuting 5 days is not something I, and a lot of people, want to do again. Thankfully I have an employer who views it in the same way - the company has grown by 150% and in normal circs they'd have to be looking for a new officer to accommodate us all, now they just have a hot design rota, with distanced desks etc.

[Peck]

I think the “traditional” 5 day commute is dead for most now, and good riddance frankly. I did it for a few years into London and wouldn’t go back to it, full stop.

What COVID has done is shown that there is a wide range of choices wrt to work, and people and business are (generally) flexible and dedicated enough to adapt. One of my clients in London is planning to move to a 2 day office / 3 day flexible system which most staff appear to be happy with, and quite looking forward to in many cases.

I hope to never see a packed 6.30am train ever again personally. Unless I’m on the way to the airport for a holiday!

[RobDad]

Since moving from Wimbledon (with a daily commute into London) to Norfolk nearly 6 years ago, it dawned very quickly how much of a toll nearly 30 years of commuting had taken on me. I realise I enjoy my work, and without the commute I have a much better work/life balance - plus I stopped spending every winter with a succession of head colds, and every summer bathed in sweat on the underground. If I could go back in time I’d move straight out of London on leaving school, just to avoid something I endured for 30 years as I thought it was the only option, and I was very wrong.


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[Itsguy]

I live centrally, do a lot of work from home, and can walk to most of the places where I have meetings if I actually need to go in. This is fortunate but it's by design, I got pretty sick of taking the tube in the morning and that was about 20 years ago. Other travel around London has often been my motorbike, thought I'll certainly use Crossrail aka The Lizard Line once it opens as it's fast. As for commuting, no thank you, at this point I can't imagine adjusting to it.

[SeanST150]

I never thought I'd like commuting, I did everything in my power to avoid applying for jobs that meant anything other than the 5 minutes drive to the office I was used to. In hindsight, I had it very good.

Now (as in pre-covid) my main office is in Holborn and I live in Milton Keynes. The commute is far from perfect, but it's by no means horrendous. It typically involves a cycle ride to the train station in MK, which takes 7-10 minutes, a 35 minute direct train journey on a nice train with aircon and a reserved seat, followed by a 15-20 minute walk from Euston to Holborn. It's all rather pleasant.

The downside in working from home it not easily being able to break the home/work divide. I don't have a home office, so my dining room table became my office, which is always in view. I could never easily break from work, especially when the laptop/screens/and all are staring at you. Maybe it's sector specific, but my working hours went through the roof during lock down, a 16 hour+ day was not uncommon. And what does your employer see, only outputs, not inputs because they are not sitting next to you, seeing what is actually going on.

I never had to commute 5 days a week. I worked hard to be given the freedom to work from where I wanted, when I wanted. It was a perk of my position, the flexibility was part of my remuneration package! Now, everyone thinks they deserve to work from where they please, and on top of that I'll be given a specific day I'm allowed in the office, removing the flexibility I once had.

Chances are I am in the minority here. I would love to return to exactly how things were, but I do recognise I had what most people now expect irrespective of whether they've earned it or not. If the commute is a necessary part of returning that flexibility, I'd welcome it back.

[Neil.C]

Will firms make you go back though?

One of my sons was working from home during Covid and thoroughly enjoying it but his firm made him go back in this week.

He only has a 15 minute drive into work with his own parking so not difficult but I guess the bosses like real connection with staff rather than some crackly Zoom calls etc.

[verv]

Im dreading having to commute again.
Fortunately and fingers crossed I think ill only be in the office for a week out of the month starting at some point in future. Ive WFH since the pandemic started.
Prior to WFH I was up at 3am on a Monday morning to drive down and get to the office in London for 9.30, then drove home on a thurs night and got in at 10.30-11 and worked Fridays from home.

[W124]

I have worked for global IT organisations for the past 27 years. I have consciously stayed in the North-West, with easy access to rail and motorway networks.

I always enjoy 3 days/2 nights working from a London office.

A two-hour train journey gets me to Euston, plus a nice hotel and evening meal on expenses.
Some colleagues coming in from the South coast have a longer travel time to London.

Whilst I have had a dedicated home office for all of that time, I really miss the energy and engagement of working face-face with some very smart colleagues.

I'm certainly looking forward to getting back into the London office for at least 2 days/1 night each week, plus real face-face engagement with clients.

[MrSmith]

A lot of middle management liked to convince themselves (and their bosses) that only by having their staff under their beady eyes all day would anything get done, but I think that myth has been suitable shattered over the last couple of years.

Personally if I was working for somebody like that I would look elsewhere for a job.
I’m freelance so have never worked office hours or done week in week out commuting, still used the tube but now (pre covid) I cycled more than any other form of transport. If I wanted a beer or evening out then the brompton would be folded up and the train home.
My partner started a new job in advertising in Jan, she only got a look at the swanky new office last week, she’s no intention of going in at any point in the near future.
The agency she works for had already downsized the building and runs an app based desk/room booking system so they know who is coming in, all the bosses live out in the sticks and are 100% behind flexible working.
I do wonder about the big agencies with prime offices like Sea Containers House stood empty and Deloitte across the river with a big chunk of Holborn, they are now going to be half empty white elephants.

[Mj2k]

Im dreading having to commute again.
Fortunately and fingers crossed I think ill only be in the office for a week out of the month starting at some point in future. Ive WFH since the pandemic started.
Prior to WFH I was up at 3am on a Monday morning to drive down and get to the office in London for 9.30, then drove home on a thurs night and got in at 10.30-11 and worked Fridays from home.

That’s brutal, I had a role where I was consulting for a firm & left 4.30 on a Monday to return 9pm on a Weds and hated it, Sunday became a write off & was tired Thursday. Never felt I had my own time & got fed up with hotel & restaurant food.

Hoping to only be back in London 2 days a week from end of September, which works well enough for me.


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[spud767]

Yeah but don't you city bods miss seeing the fit posh chicks on the train or do I have the wrong impression?

[Matt8500]

I am going to the office tomorrow for the first time since last Feb so good timing for this thread. We are planning to allow people to chose how often they come in from September when we open properly.

On the whole my team are planning a day a week in, with us agreeing to all being in 1 day every 2 weeks on the same day.

I’m never going to go back to the old ways of working, too many benefits to being at home and not wasting time travelling. I really hope that international business travel does not return either (I used to be aboard a couple of times a month), currently my company has banned it until next year at the earliest.

[Sinnlover]

Yeah but don't you city bods miss seeing the fit posh chicks on the train or do I have the wrong impression?

I had a day in the office yesterday and have to say it is a perk!

We will be going back 2 days a week and I am happy with that 30/35 minute commute in to the office, have the crac with others, etc.
I spend a lot of time on site so have been out and about during lock down but it’s nice to catch up with others who work for me face to face.
I am happy with the hybrid approach we have planned.

[wileeeeeey]

Yeah but don't you city bods miss seeing the fit posh chicks on the train or do I have the wrong impression?

Seeing my wife everyday in a variety of tracksuits just isn't the same.

[wileeeeeey]

We're meant to be going back from Oct but Oct-early 2022 is on a trial basis. I'm hoping to not be part of that trial. Beyond that it looks like 2-3 days in the office is the expectation but there has already been some pushback and I expect a lot will do 1 day per week or two and push WFH to the limit.

I'm client facing and most of my clients don't want to meet, some have even moved way out of London and will only be coming into their London once every 2-4 weeks and won't be spending that time meeting me for an hour.

We're lucky at home - both my wife and I have our own dedicated offices on different floors and we don't even hear eachother on Teams calls. There are so many perks working from home and there's no queue for the toilet. The toilet also hasn't just been ruined by a 20 stone rugby player and smell so bad your eyes start to water. Also no piss on the toilet seat at home - I don't miss that.

I think FOMO and lack of progression/currying favour with your boss will have us in more than we like but I'm more than happy to change jobs/career and go to a company who likes WFH, even if it means a slight cut in pay.

On the downside you can't see your weight creeping up when you're not wearing button up shirts daily and I have the same daily step count as a 90 year old. I tried on a work shirt for the first time since March 2020 yesterday and it was brutal. I think my memory is getting worse too as all the days blur into one and I don't have any reference points to help determine if something was 2 weeks ago or 6 weeks ago. The constant state of anxiety due to WFH is also brutal but I'm hoping that will fade away once Covid is gone and WFH is the norm. The anxiety is worse than Covid for me and haven't had Covid but I do have masses of former re work for no logical reason. Still, WFH is my preference by a country mile.

[Estoril-5]

Was talking to a friend the other day who mentioned he had been WFH since March 2020 (iirc) and he had to go back into the office once between now and then and that was to meet a new member of the team (full team decided on a single day to come in).

He said it was a nice change but just didnt feel the same. His employer is introducing a new way of working which will be a minimum of 1 day per week onsite, which i think is awesome, however his dilema is that he has sold his car and that there are no public links to his office, so its either a taxi each way once per week (£35 each way) or buy a car for use 1 day a week and the associated costs tax, insurance etc.

[wileeeeeey]

however his dilema is that he has sold his car and that there are no public links to his office, so its either a taxi each way once per week (£35 each way) or buy a car for use 1 day a week and the associated costs tax, insurance etc.

That was short sighted of him. Might be moped/e-bike time. Used cars are at an all-time high now. Mine has gone up £6k since Nov 2020.

[Estoril-5]

He doesnt have an issue buying a car or leasing etc, it was more the fact that he would have to tax it, mot it, insure it etc to be used 1 day per week.

I think the fuel saved and the commuting saved for the other 4 days would more than make up for the cost of having a car sat outside.

[wileeeeeey]

Depends what he's out by when he re-buys. My insurance is £750 per year and servicing is about £400. To buy my exact car again would cost me £4k. Personally I'd be out of pocket even after fuel/MOT.

[Mj2k]

Wiley, am suffering the same work shirt issue & on a zero alcohol & reduced calorie intake as I can ‘just’ about get by standing up, the game is up if I try to sit down & buttons strain.

We had talk of ‘casual’, but for my company that means chinos and polo shirt. I’d rather stay with an office shirt, polo & chinos just doesn’t do it for me. Jeans on the other hand, perfect. Will even put a shirt on for clients, same way I have through lockdown.

[ryanb741]

I wonder if the fact that people will work 2 or 3 days a week means companies require smaller offices, so maybe migrating to wework arrangements and the result is more firms will have London/City offices as it is much cheaper to rent the smaller location they now need vs pre-pandemic

2 days a week is what I'll be doing I imagine. Having facetime is important but clearly with the advent of tech it is easier to WFH as well.

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[ozzyb123]

I wonder if the fact that people will work 2 or 3 days a week means companies require smaller offices, so maybe migrating to wework arrangements and the result is more firms will have London/City offices as it is much cheaper to rent the smaller location they now need vs pre-pandemic

2 days a week is what I'll be doing I imagine. Having facetime is important but clearly with the advent of tech it is easier to WFH as well.

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Pretty much agree. 2 days a week for f2f meetings and 3 days to actually do the work required.

My company had 3 offices in London. Now consolidated into 1…but headcount is up loads.


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[wileeeeeey]

Mj2k, I was always sat in the morning but using the standing desk in the afternoon wishing my willpower was as strong as my shirt buttons.

I've just come out of CT Shirts with an extra half inch on my collar. No more binging on the sofa. I'd forgotten how horrible it was coming out the changing room asking for the next size up while trying to look confused.

[Jdh1]

With respect, most of you guys are in a very privlidged psoition - well established in your careers and with a hospitable home working environment. Most of you are part of a family. Of course you don't want to go back to work!

The reality for others will be increasingly different. The folk at the bottom of the ladder don't have the benefit of contacts and relationships built up over many years. They're not ingrained with the organisations culture. They have crap working conditions at home. And if people like you aren't around to bring them along, they will never develop to their potential, they will become demotivated and disenfranchised and they will start looking elsewhere. And if elsewhere has more of the same, God help them.

My view is companies will realise this sooner rather than later, but it will take a while to change back because the people at the top and middle don't want to. I wouldn't want to either, but equally I don't think I'd be able to persuade myself it was for the right reasons.

[Kash]

With respect, most of you guys are in a very privlidged psoition - well established in your careers and with a hospitable home working environment. Most of you are part of a family. Of course you don't want to go back to work!

The reality for others will be increasingly different. The folk at the bottom of the ladder don't have the benefit of contacts and relationships built up over many years. They're not ingrained with the organisations culture. They have crap working conditions at home. And if people like you aren't around to bring them along, they will never develop to their potential, they will become demotivated and disenfranchised and they will start looking elsewhere. And if elsewhere has more of the same, God help them.

My view is companies will realise this sooner rather than later, but it will take a while to change back because the people at the top and middle don't want to. I wouldn't want to either, but equally I don't think I'd be able to persuade myself it was for the right reasons.

This is spot on in my opinion - well put

[Matt8500]

I am sure that is a valid view for some organisations and people. In my team I have 4 junior members and 2 lower paid admin staff. Of those only 1 has raised a difficulty with space at home, and she is allowed in to the office as an exception.

The junior marketers seem happy with regular catch ups with their team and others to allow networking. It is no doubt not as good as ad hoc chats and coffee but it works. I hope that a few days a month in will plug the gap for them.

We are massively downsizing office space, so even if they wanted people couldn’t come in all the time. I would hate to be in the commercial office business!

[Jdh1]

This is only in the US at the moment but it could be the start of something:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58171716

Basically, they are starting to pay people less if they're working from home. The rationale seems to be that their living costs are lower.

Now, is it too much of a leap that UK companies may start to think...hang on a minute, if these people can work from home in the UK, why don't we have them working from home in New Delhi where living costs (and wages) are lower?

I struggle to see how this can end well for UK 'office workers' over the long haul.

[ryanb741]

This is only in the US at the moment but it could be the start of something:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58171716

Basically, they are starting to pay people less if they're working from home. The rationale seems to be that their living costs are lower.

Now, is it too much of a leap that UK companies may start to think...hang on a minute, if these people can work from home in the UK, why don't we have them working from home in New Delhi where living costs (and wages) are lower?

I struggle to see how this can end well for UK 'office workers' over the long haul.

It also means companies can think more internationally when hiring top talent, those hard to find skill sets etc. Top tech, finance etc talent. But yes for many office workers who are in roles that are less niche may have an issue unless the government brings in legislation to protect them. No politics allowed in G&D so I'll not give my opinion on how likely the Tories are to do that or not.....

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[steptoe]

So i presume companies based in London who have employees now all working at home and pay those employees the London Weighting allowence will no longer have to pay it ?.

[wileeeeeey]

So i presume companies based in London who have employees now all working at home and pay those employees the London Weighting allowence will no longer have to pay it ?.

Depends if London weighting reflects cost of living or commuting in London.

London weighting isn't common these days anyway. The only time I see it is on sponsored adverts on LinkedIn for Police or government roles.

[Mj2k]

Agree, the weighting doesn’t seem to be about these days. I’ve earned the same on the London catchment area as inside the city.

Our company are not changing contracts to home based, as they then pay the commute & expenses.

One of my previous employers had all of my team home based, one loved in Newcastle, the other west Wales. They came to the office 2-3 days, we put them up in expensed hotels, meals drinks etc. Their expenses and travel covered about another 2 FTEs & they had much larger houses by not living on the area.


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[luckyal]

With respect, most of you guys are in a very privlidged psoition - well established in your careers and with a hospitable home working environment. Most of you are part of a family. Of course you don't want to go back to work!

The reality for others will be increasingly different. The folk at the bottom of the ladder don't have the benefit of contacts and relationships built up over many years. They're not ingrained with the organisations culture. They have crap working conditions at home. And if people like you aren't around to bring them along, they will never develop to their potential, they will become demotivated and disenfranchised and they will start looking elsewhere. And if elsewhere has more of the same, God help them.

My view is companies will realise this sooner rather than later, but it will take a while to change back because the people at the top and middle don't want to. I wouldn't want to either, but equally I don't think I'd be able to persuade myself it was for the right reasons.

This for me nails it. I'm 51 & at a level that i can trade off all that entails, but the younger members of my team do not have that luxury and we've definitely had some that have stagnated or worse, gone backwards in the last 12 months. We've announced an agile working future (2-3 days a week) but i can see some that won't do as well or likely get frustrated with the situation.

Of course i can see some benefits of WFH, but there are many downsides in my opinion and they will have an effect on people that isn't being considered in many of these (cost saving) plans.

On a personal level i've done the commute for such a long time & persuaded myself long ago that if i let myself get frustrated by it, i'd have years of annoyance, so actually don't mind it. 35 minutes each way which is the only time in my day i don't have wife/kids/bosses/team members on my case or asking questions and i can chill out with Netflix or a book. I'm not generally a stressy type (despite plenty of it in my life) but that journey home dispels all of it before returning to the family, which isn't replicated by walking downstairs in 10 seconds.

[andy tims]

COVID has proved to all the dinosaurs that believed staff had to be at a desk in an office to be productive and some of our clients that used to demand face to face meetings that WFH is absolutely viable.
I used to commute into London 4 days a week for 3.5 hours a day at a cost of £5,600 a year on a shite train service on which I’d probably have to stand up 2 or 3 journeys a week.
I’ve been into London 4 times this year so far.
My clients are happy, so are my team. The firm has strong revenue and margin growth and our share price is up.
The only thing we have to watch is developing the junior staff. They used to pick up on conversations and learn from hearing more experienced people just talking on the phone, likewise senior staff could give advice if they heard a junior person talking about something they felt they could give beneficial input on.

We conducted 3 global staff surveys across our 28,000 people and in the UK, the sentiment was that the majority of staff wanted 60 to 80 WFH and we’re fine with that.

We assess our staff on outputs and contribution, not attendance.

[RobM]

I miss the commute. A couple of years ago I went from a 80-mile a day round trip, to a 25-mile round trip and thought it would be superb, but I actually missed it a bit. Now I'm WFH I miss it more. Oddly I actually prefer WFH as I'm far more productive, and my plan for 'hybrid working' is to pop in for part-days where I need to meet people and then disappear home to do some real work.

But the commute was the separation between work life and home life. It was a period of decompression where my brain would settle and process, to the point I'd park on the drive, make a bunch of notes and To Do's on my phone as a result of having that processing time (and so I don't forget the newfound inspiration and clarity!), and then I knew I was out of work mode the moment I left the car. I'd left work, I'd clarified my thoughts, I'd put them somewhere so I didn't need to remember them, and then I was at home.

Now I go from full-on work mode to full-on home mode with no separation, which is a mental mess and when family jump on me and want to talk, my head is still spinning from work and I'm not in the moment with them.

First world problems, I guess.

[jukeboxs]

I commute to my 2nd house each week (bought a long time ago exactly to avoid the 4-hr daily commute) whence I have a 20-30 min walk into work, and then commute back to my family (home) again for weekends. With Covid, those weekends are now longer, and we'll likely move our main home to somewhere even further out into the country (Sod's law that house prices always increase in the areas I am interested in).

P.S. Totally concur on the weight, shirts and step count issue !

[Jdh1]

COVID has proved to all the dinosaurs that believed staff had to be at a desk in an office to be productive and some of our clients that used to demand face to face meetings that WFH is absolutely viable.
I used to commute into London 4 days a week for 3.5 hours a day at a cost of £5,600 a year on a shite train service on which I’d probably have to stand up 2 or 3 journeys a week.
I’ve been into London 4 times this year so far.
My clients are happy, so are my team. The firm has strong revenue and margin growth and our share price is up.
The only thing we have to watch is developing the junior staff. They used to pick up on conversations and learn from hearing more experienced people just talking on the phone, likewise senior staff could give advice if they heard a junior person talking about something they felt they could give beneficial input on.

We conducted 3 global staff surveys across our 28,000 people and in the UK, the sentiment was that the majority of staff wanted 60 to 80 WFH and we’re fine with that.

We assess our staff on outputs and contribution, not attendance.

I think this works fine for established (and older) people but as you've alluded to, young folk and newcommers are going to find it increasingly difficult. For that reason, I don't think it will be sustainable long term for many (but not all) organisations. It will heavily depend on the type of work being done.

[blackal]

We're meant to be going back from Oct but Oct-early 2022 is on a trial basis. I'm hoping to not be part of that trial. Beyond that it looks like 2-3 days in the office is the expectation but there has already been some pushback and I expect a lot will do 1 day per week or two and push WFH to the limit.

What is your feeling as to the reason behind the pushback - not what people say are their concerns?

Reason I ask - is that I hear of younger guys in the oil industry in Aberdeen offices, pushing back against a return to the office (one lad during the 'work from home if you can' phase) when his employer was doing staggered office attendance, with distancing etc..................

Until someone clocked him at a local gym.

Always handy to shout 'safety'!

[wileeeeeey]

What is your feeling as to the reason behind the pushback - not what people say are their concerns?

Reason I ask - is that I hear of younger guys in the oil industry in Aberdeen offices, pushing back against a return to the office (one lad during the 'work from home if you can' phase) when his employer was doing staggered office attendance, with distancing etc..................

Until someone clocked him at a local gym.

Always handy to shout 'safety'!

They will say being in the office is fine but getting to and from the office is not safe. They're probably right but then these people are the same ones hosting house parties with 25 people in a 1 bed flat. I might get another motorbike to avoid the tube, or cycle, not sure yet but I'm definitely not getting on the tube.

What's the reality is they've been given via WFH a huge gift and won't going to give it back easily. The gift of time, casual dress, Netflix on an iPad next to the desk while you work, more money in your pocket at the end of the month from not paying for travel or spending £8-£10 per day on lunch Vs being 8th in line for the microwave and some twat is microwaving fish. The simplicity of being able to work next to an open window and feel the breeze. Those are the real benefits.

However when work is done and I'm laying on the sofa scrolling my phone enjoying some quiet time I miss the commute when my wife fires 100 questions at me in 10 seconds and really wants someone to offload onto because she's had zero personal conversions with work friends throughout the day. I keep telling her to get a group WhatsApp chat going with some girls but she'd rather just pummel me with her BS instead.

[Estoril-5]

but she'd rather just pummel me with her BS instead.

Sorry but i just spat my coffee out as this comment lol

[guinea]

COVID has proved to all the dinosaurs that believed staff had to be at a desk in an office to be productive and some of our clients that used to demand face to face meetings that WFH is absolutely viable.

It really hasn't.

What it's shown is that some people perform better at home and some at work.

I managed 2.5k techies in my last role. Before Covid, we looked at the data for what was happening on a Friday when everybody worked from home. It was clear from the data that on these days less code was written, fewer lines of documentation was written, fewer changes requested, fewer emails and instant messages were sent, and there were fewer meetings. It was quite clear that working from home on a Friday was a skive.

When Covid hit we went full WFH. After a wonky couple of weeks while we worked out how we were going to work we got back to a normal level of output, but the teams were complaining of long hours, burnout, and disconnection. It seemed that while many were celebrating the extra freedom others really struggled. As a team, measured by output WFH was a success, but on an individual level the story wasn't the same.

The grads in house shares were living in their bedrooms 24/7 using their bed as a chair and desk. We would supply furniture and equipment to whoever wanted them, but they didn't have room. I almost felt embarrassed joining meetings from my lovely study.

When you looked at the data, we saw some people really fly with performance up double digit percent. WFH liberated them. We saw other people hugely lonely which when coupled with the stress of Covid meant a lot of stress and corresponding poor performance.

We canned entry level recruitment. It was too hard to train and mentor people and have them understand the organisation's undocumented culture and processes. Skills that people use to gain by osmosis no longer happened. There was no place to soak up background information.

As a leader I found it frustrating that the tools don't exist for watercooler chats, lift meetings, desk visits, walk and talks. The virtual world doesn't have a way to "accidentally" bump into someone and fill them in on things that they would never put in writing.

I have enjoyed the opportunity of working from home. I'd like to see it stay in my life, but I also like being in the office. I'm both collaborative and extroverted, I gain energy being around people and love thinking sessions with colleagues and a whiteboard. WFH doesn't fill that need.

[ryanb741]

Agree with everything here. in particular onboarding people remotely into businesses with a quite complex culture and operating model is problematic at best.

It really hasn't.

What it's shown is that some people perform better at home and some at work.

I managed 2.5k techies in my last role. Before Covid, we looked at the data for what was happening on a Friday when everybody worked from home. It was clear from the data that on these days less code was written, fewer lines of documentation was written, fewer changes requested, fewer emails and instant messages were sent, and there were fewer meetings. It was quite clear that working from home on a Friday was a skive.

When Covid hit we went full WFH. After a wonky couple of weeks while we worked out how we were going to work we got back to a normal level of output, but the teams were complaining of long hours, burnout, and disconnection. It seemed that while many were celebrating the extra freedom others really struggled. As a team, measured by output WFH was a success, but on an individual level the story wasn't the same.

The grads in house shares were living in their bedrooms 24/7 using their bed as a chair and desk. We would supply furniture and equipment to whoever wanted them, but they didn't have room. I almost felt embarrassed joining meetings from my lovely study.

When you looked at the data, we saw some people really fly with performance up double digit percent. WFH liberated them. We saw other people hugely lonely which when coupled with the stress of Covid meant a lot of stress and corresponding poor performance.

We canned entry level recruitment. It was too hard to train and mentor people and have them understand the organisation's undocumented culture and processes. Skills that people use to gain by osmosis no longer happened. There was no place to soak up background information.

As a leader I found it frustrating that the tools don't exist for watercooler chats, lift meetings, desk visits, walk and talks. The virtual world doesn't have a way to "accidentally" bump into someone and fill them in on things that they would never put in writing.

I have enjoyed the opportunity of working from home. I'd like to see it stay in my life, but I also like being in the office. I'm both collaborative and extroverted, I gain energy being around people and love thinking sessions with colleagues and a whiteboard. WFH doesn't fill that need.

[dougair]

So i presume companies based in London who have employees now all working at home and pay those employees the London Weighting allowence will no longer have to pay it ?.

Well, apparently my desk costs £15k a year…if I’m no longer needing it as I’m WFH presumably I’m in line for a £15k pay rise??

[Kevin]

There was a very slow move toward versatile working going on which was accelerated by Covid and in my firm's case a major tech roll out 6 months before the pandemic which has helped facilitate remote working.
The penny has finally dropped that people can attend a meeting without travelling halfway across the country.
Work life balance is better for everyone and from my point of view I will be happy if I never go back to the office again.

My firm have just negotiated a deal with the landlord and reduced the London Head Office floor space by a third.
I have never micromanaged my team and still don't. Everything that needs to get done gets done OK and people have put in the hours when required.

We ran a survey to see if people would prefer to come back to the office.
We have offices in Surrey, Central London, Northampton, Birmingham, Leeds and Edinburgh.
Three people wanted to go back to full time in the office.

I think it is more difficult for new joiners, remote working makes establishing networks more difficult but the genie is out of the bottle and isn't going back.

[blackal]

They will say being in the office is fine but getting to and from the office is not safe. They're probably right but then these people are the same ones hosting house parties with 25 people in a 1 bed flat. I might get another motorbike to avoid the tube, or cycle, not sure yet but I'm definitely not getting on the tube.

What's the reality is they've been given via WFH a huge gift and won't going to give it back easily. The gift of time, casual dress, Netflix on an iPad next to the desk while you work, more money in your pocket at the end of the month from not paying for travel or spending £8-£10 per day on lunch Vs being 8th in line for the microwave and some twat is microwaving fish. The simplicity of being able to work next to an open window and feel the breeze. Those are the real benefits.

However when work is done and I'm laying on the sofa scrolling my phone enjoying some quiet time I miss the commute when my wife fires 100 questions at me in 10 seconds and really wants someone to offload onto because she's had zero personal conversions with work friends throughout the day. I keep telling her to get a group WhatsApp chat going with some girls but she'd rather just pummel me with her BS instead.

Yeah - I think you are seeing the detail of the reluctance correctly.

Tubes/trains/buses are to me - the most uncomfortable of the parts of working in the office.

[barneygumble]

Im dreading having to commute again.
Fortunately and fingers crossed I think ill only be in the office for a week out of the month starting at some point in future. Ive WFH since the pandemic started.
Prior to WFH I was up at 3am on a Monday morning to drive down and get to the office in London for 9.30, then drove home on a thurs night and got in at 10.30-11 and worked Fridays from home.

Did you have somewhere to stay in London, or was it a case of booking a hotel or something for those days? I had to do the latter for a little while, such a waste of money.

[Jdh1]

It really hasn't.

What it's shown is that some people perform better at home and some at work.

I managed 2.5k techies in my last role. Before Covid, we looked at the data for what was happening on a Friday when everybody worked from home. It was clear from the data that on these days less code was written, fewer lines of documentation was written, fewer changes requested, fewer emails and instant messages were sent, and there were fewer meetings. It was quite clear that working from home on a Friday was a skive.

When Covid hit we went full WFH. After a wonky couple of weeks while we worked out how we were going to work we got back to a normal level of output, but the teams were complaining of long hours, burnout, and disconnection. It seemed that while many were celebrating the extra freedom others really struggled. As a team, measured by output WFH was a success, but on an individual level the story wasn't the same.

The grads in house shares were living in their bedrooms 24/7 using their bed as a chair and desk. We would supply furniture and equipment to whoever wanted them, but they didn't have room. I almost felt embarrassed joining meetings from my lovely study.

When you looked at the data, we saw some people really fly with performance up double digit percent. WFH liberated them. We saw other people hugely lonely which when coupled with the stress of Covid meant a lot of stress and corresponding poor performance.

We canned entry level recruitment. It was too hard to train and mentor people and have them understand the organisation's undocumented culture and processes. Skills that people use to gain by osmosis no longer happened. There was no place to soak up background information.

As a leader I found it frustrating that the tools don't exist for watercooler chats, lift meetings, desk visits, walk and talks. The virtual world doesn't have a way to "accidentally" bump into someone and fill them in on things that they would never put in writing.

I have enjoyed the opportunity of working from home. I'd like to see it stay in my life, but I also like being in the office. I'm both collaborative and extroverted, I gain energy being around people and love thinking sessions with colleagues and a whiteboard. WFH doesn't fill that need.

Excellent post, and sums up the reality very well I think.