Reply With QuoteWhat could possibly go wrong...Originally Posted by jpjsavage
I would have thought going out to the pub with your mates was pretty irresponsible at the moment. Kind of borne out by the fact the person in question appears to have caught covid on that very night. So what was the point of the test?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
What could possibly go wrong...
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
It's Christmas!
I know.Not for those in hospital though!
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Quite. I certainly won't be out merrymaking.I know.
So that they know they’re not the ones with Covid? Suppose those they’ve caught it off wouldn’t pass it on if they’d taken the same approach with testing.
I agree with the lack of unnecessary mixing by the way, but those that are mixing and taking the right steps such as testing and wearing masks can’t be blamed.
The official guidance is what will put an end to it but in the meantime, those that want to mix and test shouldn’t be put in the same box as those going out potentially with Covid and not testing.
You can take a LFT before you go out and it may be negative but you can be positive within a few hours when you go home.
Who's going to wear a mask in a pub with your mates?
Plus don't bet on a LFT as gospel.
Useful article in the FT today examining the pros and cons of lateral flow tests:
Omicron puts spotlight on UK’s use of rapid tests to stem Covid spread
https://www.ft.com/content/cbd0fb0a-...c-0afa10619383
Well worth reading as a reminder of how the tests work and their shortcomings. I found this diagram helpful.
We're doomed.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Agreed - I think it’s really important to remember that a negative LFT is really only telling you that a person isn’t shedding large quantities of virus particles. And that’s assuming they’ve taken the test properly, used a valid sample and followed the instructions etc etc…Useful article in the FT today examining the pros and cons of lateral flow tests:
Omicron puts spotlight on UK’s use of rapid tests to stem Covid spread
https://www.ft.com/content/cbd0fb0a-...c-0afa10619383
Well worth reading as a reminder of how the tests work and their shortcomings. I found this diagram helpful.
Having said which, if the limitations are understood and taken into account, I think LFTs are still useful. What I find troubling is the ‘negative test = safe” mental shortcut that it’s terribly easy to develop.
Don’t see value of LTF tests for admittance to venues.
It only shows that someone, at some time tested negative.
That’s if it hasn’t been manipulated as described in another post on here.
I agree, and that's why they have been scrapped for that purpose in my parts of Europe.
They do have an utility as a feedback, I regularly test my daughter and myself and am happy for every negative test. But I don't believe for a second that a negative test result process anything other than that I am not a super spreader at that very moment.
I also think that most LTF are not properly administered. But that's another topic.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Maybe a LTF made at the venue before admission would make it slightly better. Yet it doesn't change the fact you could become infectious after taking the test (setting aside any reliability issue).
I personally do not think night clubs or any such venues at the moment should be open at all, but at the very least no one unvaccinated should be admitted, even with a good medical reason, but of course this would be unacceptable to many and I would draw the line at shops and public transport anyway. Once we have more data the rules can be softened. I stupidly believe that hard rules that we subsequently soften lead to a better outcome than slack rules you subsequently need to harden, because by then it is too late.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Doubt LTF at the venue would be practical, certainly not at night clubs with the 20 minute wait and likely boisterous clientele.
I agree although my memories of going to those places often involved a longer wait before getting in.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Had my booster jab yesterday (Pfizer). All good, save for a mild achy arm. Nothing compared to the reaction I had to the AZ jabs earlier in the year.
From a very good friend of mine who is a UK front line health professional:
"Our ICU is full so the second back up one is opening next week so I will be drafted in again. 3/4 of patients in are unvaccinated and in worst condition than ones who are."
Yes, but they lived free from the shackles of masks and government-sponsored injections.
That must be worth something?
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
How do you know that some of those are not medically prevented from being vaccinated?
Oh, wait, you don't.
Not everyone who isn't vaccinated is a tin-foil-hat wearing nutter, some just can't have the vaccine and, of course, many of those will be particularly susceptible to any infection.
There's a lot of judgment and misinformation around COVID and vaccinations on both sides.
It's like Brexit all over again - Almost like we enjoy being divisive and judgemental of others...
When did things get so bad?
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
To be fair those who argue the point have made that exception clear, repeatedly. Look in the other thread.
It is then assumed that that medical exception is exempt from criticism but in effect makes it even more necessary to be vaccinated for those who do not need the exemption.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
How do I know?
because there are no people who cannot have the vaccine.
According to David Dowdy from the Johns Hopkins university: "The only major contraindication to the vaccines listed by the CDC is a severe allergic reaction to the first dose. In those cases, the person is advised to consult a physician and hold off on their second dose, according to Dowdy. "We're not talking about some people who had pain at the site of injection or a rash, we're talking about anaphylactic shock," he said. Dowdy said the data so far shows this severe allergy is rare, and less than one in 1 million people experience it." (Source). You could also read this or this.
At best, there is one amongst a million who should not have the vaccine. Those should hopefully be able to rely on that the rest of the population do what they can so that hospitals aren't overflowing.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
You fail to mention myocarditis and pericarditis which the FDA have already admitted can be a side effect, one which is possible everytime you take the covid jab.
Are you sure your not working for Pfizer or the BBC? Leaving out important facts..
Fair enough (as posted below, there are exceptions), I just get bored with the same old self-righteous posts.
Yes, there are a lot of people who are idiots and believe the Facebook-BS about vaccines, but not everyone who chooses NOT to do so is in that category.
People who post that you will die if you don't have the vaccine or you will kill everyone around you or that 'the ICUs are overflowing' (they're not - Check the official figures or are we to assume they are all lies?) are just as guilty of posting nonsense.
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
A very small number is not "no people cannot have the vaccine"
I have a friend who cannot have her second dose or booster as she was one of the crazy odds tiny number who ended up hospitalised with myocarditis after her first shot.
Completely healthy and a GP in the Liverpool area.
She cannot have the vaccine.
I am not leaving anything out.
Me saying that there is no indication for people not to take the vaccine isn't the same as saying that there are no possible side effects.
The much-talked-about myocarditis is an inflammation of the heart which is treated with IBUprofen and is over for 99% of patients after three days. The likelihood of suffering from myocarditis is about 10 times higher for people who contract Covid compared to people who get it as a side affect from the vaccine.
Who is leaving out important facts?
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
That is very unfortunate for her, according to the CDC, chances are one in a million.
Obviously she is one of those that deserve every protection that society can give her.
* When I said there are no people, I meant in a way that would make them statistically relevant. We will have 60 people across the UK who can't have the vaccine, and not every one of them will contract Covid at the same time, so obviously that has absolutely nothing to do with the people who are in ICUs and not vaccinated.
Last edited by Raffe; 20th December 2021 at 18:01.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
It's absolutely the same! If you have underlying heart issues you shouldnt be taking the vax.
You have just said there is no indication for people not to take the vax. Having a heart issue is absoulty an indication.
I know what myocarditis is thanks, it also shouldn't be taken lightly it can cause lasting heart issues and scar tissue, along with the fact you don't even know you have it and it's not recommended that you to any physical activity outside of normal day to day living while you have the condition because it will lead to a heart attack. (I wonder if this is why athletes have been having cardiac arrest following the vaccine???)
If you want to throw percentages around then let's still not forget 99% of people with covid recover with no problems. That alone is the reason vaccine should be left as a CHOICE.
The won'ts far outnumber the can'ts.
FWIW I asked my friend how many of the unvaccinated patients currently in his ICU were medically unable to be vaccinated and he said such people are extremely rare in ICU because they will have been instructed to shield and most of them do what they are told.
Can you evidence from somewhere reputable that those with heart issues shouldn't be vaccinated?
No, it isn't.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...iderations.pdf
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Carefully does it Ralf, g&d, but I agree totally.
You’re not in the bear pit now, no need to behave like you are.
I wonder whether there's any Covid transmission risk from opening the Christmas cards that we all receive? I mean, the envelopes usually get licked in order to seal them???
Correct you are.
Kudos.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I’d expect all the posties to be dead if that were a reliable form of transmission.
Edit: Sorry, only 1% of them as 99% of people recover just fine from Covid apparently.
She can however have monoclonal antibodies and a traditional inactivated subunit vaccine (when it gains approval)
I had my booster on Saturday, they gave me Pfizer, my first 2 doses were AZ.
I've been doing my elderly mothers grocery shopping every Sunday since last March and before I go round to her house I take a LFT to be on the safe side. Yesterdays test returned positive, so I took another one which also showed positive.
So it looks like I could of had covid when I received the booster jab which I've read isn't advised.
Same with my daughter…. Back from Uni, out with mates and then cough starts Wednesday and finally tested positive Friday
She’s sprung Xmas morning assuming LFT shows she’s all clear…. Was nearly Xmas up the swanny
She’s just listening to music/ watching Netflix and nattering to mates on the blower, whilst getting waiter service from yours truly to a stool placed outside her bedroom door…. Living her best life!
Isn't that life as usual during the holidays for a University student?
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
I was watching the news last night and there was a senior consultant from QMC in Nottingham saying the vast majority of people clogging the hospital up were unvaccinated my mrs who works at Leicester royal infirmary says the same and 3 blokes from work got covid 2 felt ropey and one had weeks off very Ill but was not vaccinated, if you are looking at who to blame for another miserable Xmas it think it’s pretty clear
The majority of people having Covid in hospital are vaccinated. The majority in ICU are un-vaccinated. It’s clear that the vaccination helps stop serious illness and a good proportion of those testing positive in hospital have gone in for something else. With the majority of the population vaccinated (and two doses is generally good enough to stop people being hospitalised) it is clear the NHS capacity is an issue but, isn’t that the case every winter?
Absolute bollocks!
Firstly, the risk of getting myocarditis is very small. Secondly, to then to get severe myocarditis that leads to long term impairment is even rarer. Yes, it can happen and small percentages can show up when you have delivered over 8 billion doses. The risk of death from Myocarditis is close to being hit by lightening. Does it happen? Yes. Often? No! You seem to struggle to understand risk and assess everything as equal. It isn’t.
You can take the vaccine safely with many hearts conditions. If you specifically suffer from myocarditis then you may wish to consider a non mRNA based vaccine but even then it would be better to discuss it with your Cardiologist rather than listen to someone on a watch forum!
Last edited by paw3001; 21st December 2021 at 12:33.
Concise and accurate.
Youngest daughter (14) has a significant underlying heart condition and has been fully vaccinated with Pfizer - her choice after doing her research and speaking to the specialists. She knows that the risks from vaccination are miniscule and vastly outweighed by the benefits to all.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Your 99% figure, does that include all of those people that have had covid and are left with Long Covid, being one of these people I can tell you that it is a real problem that takes some getting used to, and, it may well be with you for the rest of your life.
It could well change your life, both personal and work, having said that, I am so glad that I was double jabbed when I caught covid and ended up in hospital, I walked out after 10 days, some didn't.
The implication that the BBC is a obviously wrong strikes me as odd. I worked there myself a long time ago. All I saw was very hard working, highly educated people doing their best to give a balanced, fact checked picture of the world. Their viewpoint was not entirely without bias as they were mainly intelligent and capable, chronically overworked middle class oxbridge graduates, so they didn’t represent a cross section of society. However you could do a lot worse. Clearly during the last election and the referendum various people began to say that the ‘mainstream media’ can’t be trusted because it didn’t agree with their own extreme agendas, one sided views, and conspiracies, which is most unfortunate. But this being the G&D I’ll leave it there.
Comedy gold.
(btw I love the way people give their political views in the G&D, and then say 'But it's the G&D so I'll leave it there'!)
Last edited by oldoakknives; 21st December 2021 at 17:22.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Sorry but I don’t understand why this is comedy gold?Comedy gold.
(btw I love the way people give their political views in the G&D, and then say 'But it's the G&D so I'll leave it there'!)
Plus why is talking about the BBC political, it is a National public broadcaster not a political party.
As both sides are always complaining, I would think that shows that the BBC is pretty well balanced. I do however think that they ignore the consensus of the topic under discussion when trying to achieve balance by giving the twos sides equal time of the debate, e.g. climate change etc
Just because the BBC don’t take an extreme view doesn’t mean they are not balanced, it just means you are not!
Just because the BBC take the same view as you doesn't mean they are balanced. Funny how it's always people on one side of the scene defending the BBC.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
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