It seems amazing that it is now 40 years, since Maggie Thatcher sent a fleet to free an Island, that to be quite honest I had no idea where it was?
It certainly was a sobering few months, and a much closer run affair than we were led to believe at the time.
We lost 256 brave souls in that campaign and many more to PTSD in the years that followed.
I play golf with a ex Para (2 Battalion) who was 22 in 1982. His accounts of the battle for Stanley are pretty hair raising to say the least. I do hope the country does offer some recognition this year? The conflict seems to have been forgotten, over shadowed by Afghanistan and Iraq.
My mate does not celebrate his bravery in anyway, always stating he was lucky and that all the hero's ended up in body bags.
SAMA (the South Atlantic Association) are promoting a celebration https://sama82.org.uk/ it would be good to raise its profile through the coming months.
Last edited by wildheart; 7th January 2022 at 11:20.
40 years ago seems to have gone so fast , but not so for both the men and women who re live the things that they saw and dealt with on a daily basis.
I am sure Simon Weston ( OBE ) late Welch Guards and the only soldier to have suffered from horrific burns in the conflict, or at least you would think that, will have something to do with the forthcoming anniversary.
Forty years - wow! I feel really old but at least I'm here to feel old unlike those that were lost on both sides.
My late mother was still boycotting Argentinian corned beef till the day she died.
I've never liked Corned Beef, but I've met some lovely Argentinians.
Always (even at the time) seemed like a rather stupid conflict to have gotten into, but there's no questioning the bravery or professionalism of the forces involved.
As Wildheart says it wasn't as clear-cut as people might think these days, although once the Argentines were out of anti-ship missiles and British troops were ashore in numbers, it probably was a foregone conclusion that the better trained and equipped British troops would prevail.
It'd be easy to get into a political argument over the war, inappropriate for G&D, suffice to say that, as in more recent events, British military forces went off and did what they're paid to do in a professional way and some paid a heavy price for it.
It's a pity, though, that a proper solution hasn't been found that suits all parties, as the Argentines still believe the British 'occupy' the Malvinas (personally, I think the people on the islands should have the right to decide, either way, but there is a huge financial cost to supporting the islands as we currently do, so a more equitable agreement would be in all our interests).
649 Argentinians also died, many of them conscripts, killed by the weather rather than British forces. At least, though, they rid themselves of their military junta as a result, so it wasn't totally in vain.
M
Last edited by snowman; 7th January 2022 at 11:40.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
A great read is Vulcan 607 about the bombing raid on Stanley airstrip, now that was a very close thing!
I remember it vividly as a 12 year old, it happened in my first term at a boarding school made up primarily of forces kids, a lot of my friends had Navy and Army parents out there, we would watch the news as it came in avidly, I can't remember any 'bad news' being delivered to anyone thankfully.
Mad to think that WW2 was closer in time to the Falklands war, than the Falklands war is to today.
Cheers..
Jase
It's naive to think any conflict is a foregone conclusion. I was a young kid at the time, the whole thing even then seemed daft, pointless in the extreme, what did the UK gain?
You know what side is right when one side is not even in the right half of the worlds hemisphere
Interestingly, if the Argentinians tried the same today they could secure Stanley airstrip without risking being bombed.Originally Posted by MikeB687
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I did a four month tour down in the FI's in 1985. As part of the tour as a young 19 year old infantry soldier, as well as hearts and mind patrols we also carried out security duties guarding the air strip at Stanley.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mountain-Co.../dp/1526791625
Good read, written by my Mums cousin. Was only chatting to him last year, very interesting guy.
I was 21 at the time, no involvement in it at all myself apart from following it on TV. I couldn't quite believe what was happening.
I've read a few books about the conflict; my favourite of which is Sea Harrier Over the Falklands, by Commander "Sharkey" Ward. A real eye opener. One Hundred Days by Admiral Sir Sandy Woodward is a very honest and frank personal account. No Picnic by Brigadier Julian Thompson is a very thorough account of the land offensive.
You can support the Falklands Veterans Foundation here : http://www.falklandsveterans.org.uk/donations.html
Can`t believe it was 40years ago!
I read a very thorough history of the conflict a few years back, can`t remember who wrote it but it was a very revealing account.
The whole thing was a tragedy, no question about that, and it was close to going horribly wrong for the Brits.
Yes really good.. the work up where they were raiding museum Vulcans to get parts!!
It was far far closer than lots were led to believe. The Argentinians were mainly conscripts and were despondent but some were fighters and gave a good account of themselves! The Skyhawk pilots were really good but dropped bombs to close to do much damage to the ships. My old boss got a DFC pulling casualties off Tumbledown.
The bit problem I have is we couldn’t mount an operation like that again and as a country we should be ashamed !!!
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That's insane!!
Fortunately, I don’t think the Argentinians are in any position to do the same today, and the Falklands are a lot better defended today than they were in 1982.
There was a guy who owned "The Bower Inn" in Caithness who had a huge mounted photo of the General Belgrano going down, with liferafts in the water - in the snug bar (called "The Sinker Snug".)
He also had many Submarine pennants around the place.
He related that he had actually 'sank the Belgrano'.
Turns out - that he actually HAD launched that torpedo!
https://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk...b-done-120226/
The photo in question was distinctly lacking in taste.
I would have been about 11 when the war broke out and I remember a guy who lived in the street behind me got deployed out there.
He was 18 and he never came home.
My late brother was on board a frigate during the conflict (can’t for the life of me remember if it was Arrow or Fearless). Prior to that he was your stereotypical young naval guy, hard drinking and a girl in every port, he was my hero!
He was a changed man when he came home, he left the Navy as soon as he could and settled down, he only ever recounted one story of his time there, and as I got older I understood why he had changed so much.
A minor conflict compared to most but still with dreadful consequences for many families on both sides.
My brother died of influenza at the age of forty, he lived quite a life.
Jonathan.
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+1
As mentioned above, Vulcan 607 is a good read. I also enjoyed Down South by Chris Parry.
Fearless was a landing ship, so it certainly wasn't that if it was a Frigate.
The Vulcan story is a good one, but pretty much a pointless exercise, doing little damage.
It probably shook up a few Argentine conscripts (It may even have killed a couple), but it was really an RAF publicity stunt as they were worried they were being sidelined in the war.
M
Last edited by snowman; 7th January 2022 at 18:01.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Another sad aspect of the war, the Argentines should have been able to save most of the sailors who died on the Belgrano, but delays (I don't remember the reasons offhand, maybe political, maybe fear of losing more ships, maybe just a communication/navigation cock-up) meant they didn't get rescue ships there in time.There was a guy who owned "The Bower Inn" in Caithness who had a huge mounted photo of the General Belgrano going down, with liferafts in the water - in the snug bar (called "The Sinker Snug".)
He also had many Submarine pennants around the place.
He related that he had actually 'sank the Belgrano'.
Turns out - that he actually HAD launched that torpedo!
https://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk...b-done-120226/
The photo in question was distinctly lacking in taste.
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
I don't think that's anything to be ashamed of to be honest - it suggests that taxpayers' money is being spent to benefit taxpayers. But again we veer close to politics. Anyway, no shame in this as far as I'm concerned.
Bombed from aircraft - true; attacked via other means - definitely not true.
Argie aircraft wouldn't get near the place with the defence systems in place.
Been living down here 33 years
I meant clearly via air as I was responding to the Vulcan post. But it would indeed necessitate a naval operation with limited air support...
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Even the French ripping the Argies off
https://en.mercopress.com/2022/01/04...de-spare-parts
Since the 1990s the UK has had submarine launched weapons that can take out land targets like airfields.
"I'm not allowed to say how many planes joined the raid, but I counted them all out and I counted them all back."
You'll either remember it or not.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Goosebumps listening to that and watching the coverage.
My cousin was a Tornado pilot during the Faulklands.. he never spoke of his duties or actions within the conflict or the first Gulf war in which he also served.
He now lives a pretty reclusive life in the highlands of Scotland.
Tornado wasn't deployed during the Falklands...GW1 however was another story.
We had a family holiday on The Falkland Islands a few years ago and spent a few days exploring Pebble Island. Two Argentine veterans of the conflict (both conscripts) were also staying in the lodge, along with their adult children and grandchildren. They were visiting to remember and pay respects to the fallen on both sides, and are amongst the nicest, most thoughtful people we've encountered anywhere. We had some incredibly interesting and very moving conversations about their experiences, with the kids acting as translators. Their local island hosts were gracious and very welcoming towards them. A week or so later we bumped into them again in Stanley, they treated us like long lost brothers.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
We have two carriers with F35’s, a squadron of Typhoons (in location), 6 destroyers and 14 frigates plus 3 assault ships.
Argentina don’t.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
You'd like to think no government would be so negligent again that it would ever happen.
As the last post says, in some ways we're far better equipped for such a campaign with two aircraft carriers and some specialist landing ships.
M
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Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Well, it’s four Typhoons, but yes, they would get the job done.
Cheers..
Jase
Maybe why he didn’t speak about it?
Thatcher needed a small victorious war for her to remain in power.
RIP the service people of both countries who where a pawn in the whole process.
My favourite piece of writing on the the importance of the war: https://archive.clivejames.com/books/thatc.htm
A school friend lost his dad on HMS Sheffield.
An old line manager was a commando during the Falklands, he would never talk about the conflict, despite having a picture of himself and a mate on his desk. He would happily talk at length about his time in the forces and it was a colourful one, but would clam straight up when the Falklands was mentioned.
My 17 yo son is doing the Falklands War as part of his history A level. That makes me feel old.
He wasn’t in tornado during the Falklands they were just coming into the system then and never went. The Phantom was still the RAF interceptor of choice and spent many years down south as air defence, they did want to use Buccaneers instead of the Vulcan on the Stanley raid but they used to much oil and couldn’t replenish it on the way down. When the Tornado went to the gulf for the first war it had to fly with buccaneers that were used to mark the targets for the bombs as the tornado hadn’t been cleared for the pods even then.
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Both pathetic comments. What do you believe the UK should have done in response to a hostile invasion? That's a rhetorical question by the way as I'm not going to get involved in arguments in the way of many TZ forum topics. The Falkland's War happened when I was at university but I went on to fly the Tornado GR1 in Gulf War I and afterwards, and another aircraft type before a major change in direction within the military.
Maybe so but without boots to put on the ground all the nice shiney things mean the square root of **** all when you go to war. It’s nice to drop a bomb from a long way off but it’s a different story when you speak to the guys from Afghan who were fighting with bayonets and we’ve thrown loads of them under the bus.
Luckily we pinched a couple of Agusta 109s from there which saw out there life in Alan mann colours working out of Hereford. We should have done trials on the Pucarra as it’s a good airframe for it’s intended job.
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I agree there are ways. But with limited air cover and no direct bombing possibilities. I am not familiar with the sort of weapons available on board submarines, and how suitable they would be to destroy a couple of runways. Nor do I know the sort of anti submarine weapons available to Argentina. It’s a moot point: the fact is that on its own the UK doesn’t have long range bombing facilities nor the means to enforce air superiority on distant battlefields like this one. Which doesn’t mean they would lose the Falklands; just that it might prove even more costly in human lives.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but when a serving military person you have been trained to completely serve the requirements of the U.K. armed forces without questioning the rights or wrongs.
I am sympathetic to a UK response to hostile invasions, but British have not covered themselves in glory over a long historical period of colonisation and more recently during the Iraq invasion and war.
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It would be a very different war if history were to repeat, the Argentinian armed forces are not what they were, but hopefully it will never come to that and the Islanders can continue to determine their own futures in peace.
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