Smiths were the only watches worn on the summit of Everest in '53. The proof.

[JGJG]

These are fairly recent. The second one is gold. I love the reference to "English Air".

A watch journey. Smiths and Everest content, but not *that* Smiths.
https://forums.timezone.com/index.ph...=0#msg_7663375

Horological Journal: 1953 Rolex, Smiths, Mt. Everest secret letters revealed...
https://forums.timezone.com/index.ph...89#msg_7712966

Thanks for posting that; seems determinative…

[M4tt]

I'm personally certain that Mallory made the summit and have been gently writing and researching the evidence to support that claim for a couple of years now.

At the heart of the issue is the question of how it could be so easy to get up and yet so hard to return. I think there is a wealth of circumstantial, scientific and documentary evidence to show that Mallory and Irvine were infinitely better prepared and suited to summit than Hillary, and in fact anyone else until Messner, and made very fast progress up the mountain after a later than intended start. Both Hillary and Norgay both avoided a medical that they would have failed.

However, I have now located a crucial piece of equipment believed to have been lost on Everest that is in fact sat in a college library, but misidentified. The provenance is secure and, combined with the weather conditions on Everest as the climb progressed, it suggests a nightmare dilemma faced on the summit, explains the strange pattern of damage on Mallory's watch, which I examined at the RGS, and suggests a compelling reason for the failure to descend safely.

When Irving's body is finally recovered. I fully expect the camera to be found and prove that Everest was climbed in '24, quite possibly without oxygen for the final pitch.

[SimonK]

Rolex and Smiths were both suppliers to the expedition and both firms are mentioned in the appendix to Hunt's book. On a practical note, one offered a manual wind and the other an automatic watch. To paraphrase Rolex's famous advertising tagline, if you were climbing Everest tomorrow would you prefer a manual winding or an automatic wristwatch?

[M4tt]

Rolex and Smiths were both suppliers to the expedition and both firms are mentioned in the appendix to Hunt's book. On a practical note, one offered a manual wind and the other an automatic watch. To paraphrase Rolex's famous advertising tagline, if you were climbing Everest tomorrow would you prefer a manual winding or an automatic wristwatch?

We did this. In the case of an early perpetual Rolex with a screw down crown, you categorically want a hand wind watch with a non screw crown.

The '53 Everest expedition was a quasi military affair done by the book. And the book says that you wind and check watches at a set time daily. In the case of the perpetual complication in a Rolex, this is a very sensible precaution as the levels of activity will go from cutting steps which will put a fair strain on a winding mechanism to doing not very much while conserving strength, during which time an inefficient winding mechanism will not keep the watch well wound and can lead to significant deviations in timekeeping. So it's common sense to wind and compare watches daily, at which point the screw down crown and compromised water resistance when open, is a liability.

[5avvy]

I'm personally certain that Mallory made the summit and have been gently writing and researching the evidence to support that claim for a couple of years now.

At the heart of the issue is the question of how it could be so easy to get up and yet so hard to return. I think there is a wealth of circumstantial, scientific and documentary evidence to show that Mallory and Irvine were infinitely better prepared and suited to summit than Hillary, and in fact anyone else until Messner, and made very fast progress up the mountain after a later than intended start. Both Hillary and Norgay both avoided a medical that they would have failed.

However, I have now located a crucial piece of equipment believed to have been lost on Everest that is in fact sat in a college library, but misidentified. The provenance is secure and, combined with the weather conditions on Everest as the climb progressed, it suggests a nightmare dilemma faced on the summit, explains the strange pattern of damage on Mallory's watch, which I examined at the RGS, and suggests a compelling reason for the failure to descend safely.

When Irving's body is finally recovered. I fully expect the camera to be found and prove that Everest was climbed in '24, quite possibly without oxygen for the final pitch.

This, sounds very interesting indeed and worthy of its own thread, and, may I suggest, some form of publication.

[50kopek]

I'm personally certain that Mallory made the summit and have been gently writing and researching the evidence to support that claim for a couple of years now.

At the heart of the issue is the question of how it could be so easy to get up and yet so hard to return. I think there is a wealth of circumstantial, scientific and documentary evidence to show that Mallory and Irvine were infinitely better prepared and suited to summit than Hillary, and in fact anyone else until Messner, and made very fast progress up the mountain after a later than intended start. Both Hillary and Norgay both avoided a medical that they would have failed.

However, I have now located a crucial piece of equipment believed to have been lost on Everest that is in fact sat in a college library, but misidentified. The provenance is secure and, combined with the weather conditions on Everest as the climb progressed, it suggests a nightmare dilemma faced on the summit, explains the strange pattern of damage on Mallory's watch, which I examined at the RGS, and suggests a compelling reason for the failure to descend safely.

When Irving's body is finally recovered. I fully expect the camera to be found and prove that Everest was climbed in '24, quite possibly without oxygen for the final pitch.

Very interesting and exciting! I very much look forward to reading your findings at some point.

[M4tt]

Actually, it’s daft to post this. Sorry. More eventually.

[joff]

Fantastic post.

[abraxas]

Actually, it’s daft to post this. Sorry. More eventually.

I don't think it's daft. I for one I am glad that you are still on the case. Mallory's is one of my favourite watch stories. A tad macabre but fascinating nevertheless. I hope to get some answer before we pop our clogs.

[Broussard]

Strangely, I don't appear to have responded to this post! Apologies for that - fantastic ongoing work from M4tt, Rev-O and many, many others.
#teamwatchnerd

[Rev-O]

Strangely, I don't appear to have responded to this post! Apologies for that - fantastic ongoing work from M4tt, Rev-O and many, many others.
#teamwatchnerd

No, thank you sir.

Also a bump for this thread -- as if it needed it

[dkpw]

I'm personally certain that Mallory made the summit and have been gently writing and researching the evidence to support that claim for a couple of years now.

At the heart of the issue is the question of how it could be so easy to get up and yet so hard to return. I think there is a wealth of circumstantial, scientific and documentary evidence to show that Mallory and Irvine were infinitely better prepared and suited to summit than Hillary, and in fact anyone else until Messner, and made very fast progress up the mountain after a later than intended start. Both Hillary and Norgay both avoided a medical that they would have failed.

However, I have now located a crucial piece of equipment believed to have been lost on Everest that is in fact sat in a college library, but misidentified. The provenance is secure and, combined with the weather conditions on Everest as the climb progressed, it suggests a nightmare dilemma faced on the summit, explains the strange pattern of damage on Mallory's watch, which I examined at the RGS, and suggests a compelling reason for the failure to descend safely.

When Irving's body is finally recovered. I fully expect the camera to be found and prove that Everest was climbed in '24, quite possibly without oxygen for the final pitch.

This year?

[M4tt]

This year?

Possibly. I'm busy with other stuff.

[sweets]

Given that his reply saying it was Swiss and unconsidered was made after a hundred suggestions of West End, i think it unlikely.
His answer suggested that he has found a clear and identifiable photo, which he will publish in due course.
I guess the Insta is a teaser for his article.
And yes, he has of course read this thread.

[M4tt]

Given that his reply saying it was Swiss and unconsidered was made after a hundred suggestions of West End, i think it unlikely.
His answer suggested that he has found a clear and identifiable photo, which he will publish in due course.
I guess the Insta is a teaser for his article.
And yes, he has of course read this thread.

I'm pretty sure that I have looked through every single photograph and film in the RGS, both colour and black and white, most of which are still not digitised, and so I'd be slightly surprised if he has unless there are privately held sources. Personally, the watch I see in the images, looks pretty clear in the best pictures and in the less clear could be Lord Lucan…

It’s certainly the case that Borgel and Taubert cases were popular with earlier climbers. However they were used by rather a lot of manufactures, from Patek to Doxa. The strongest case for West End is their issue, and popularity with the Indian army. There is a CSI watch which is a West End / Longines crossover in a similar case to the Patek 565 which I considered as it has the larger 33m Borgel case, and looks about right, but the way the lugs shade on the Smiths seems pretty conclusive to me.

Either was, I’d be delighted to be conclusively proved wrong by a killer source as that puts the issue to bed and would be one more fact to play with. However, I’m not sure I will be.

[Rev-O]

The Omega fans (of whom I’m one) are now informed of The Truth!

https://omegaforums.net/threads/what...-everest.29349

[Rev-O]

I’d be delighted to be conclusively proved wrong by a killer source as that puts the issue to bed and would be one more fact to play with. However, I’m not sure I will be.

I fear the killer source will be Philipp Stahl’s unverified report of an unrecorded private conversation with Tenzing’s son. In which case expect the answer to be a Rolex.

(Stahl’s “Rolex Passion Report” replied to Perezcope on that thread but I can’t read it as he’s blocked me.)