Reply With QuoteI say ploy to deter parking and if they mean nothing, keep parking, but why report it? Drive off, go home, cuddle the wife/husband/boyfriend/dog.
We went to Lea Valley for a walk today, driving to the usual road where we park, and were greeted with these signs:
The road is a dead end to Gunpowder Mills museum and woodland park, on the right side of the road is a selection of gated residential cul-de-sacs, on the other, the river Lea.
Here's the google map. It's Beaulieu Drive:
It's never been a private road, we've parked there for years, there are no yellow lines.
I parked there anyway as I was 99% certain the signs were BS. There were no other signs stating any penalties, restrictions or times, no official private parking company signs, nothing except the signs I pictured above.
I assume they're just a ploy to make people park elsewhere and have no legal authority, but are residents of a council-maintained street allowed to erect official-looking signs as and when they like?
Parking down the road doesn't affect anyone living there because they all live behind electronic gates, in houses with two-car driveways.
So, legal or BS? Can I report the signs?
I say ploy to deter parking and if they mean nothing, keep parking, but why report it? Drive off, go home, cuddle the wife/husband/boyfriend/dog.
Makes a change from "Polite Notice"
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
I’d personally query it with the local council. Chances are that if the locals feel the need to erect their own signs and you keep parking then things could escalate?
I wouldn't report them, best case the signs which you can ignore anyway get taken down. Worse case, official ones get erected.
ooo gated community's. Says it all. Report it and keep on parking! I see similar near me in the affluent areas. Seems a completely different world but no surprise
Sounds like they have a "residents' committee" - with a bit of a tw4t at the head...................
I'd be tempted to get printed overlays for their signs:
"Beaulieu Drive - Free parking"
"Don't bother lifting your dog-poo............. We collect it daily"
"Beaulieu Drive - Dogging Area 6pm-11pm..... daily"
Smells like someone is trying to start that most disgusting of American institutions the ‘HOA’.
Personally if I was going to be parking there often I’d check with the relevant authority that parking was not restricted and if not carry on. If restrictions had been instituted (and I highly doubt that as signs of this nature are usually accompanied by road markings) then find somewhere else to go.
Great for you if they are not legit. Leave them, don't inquire and your guaranteed a parking spot every time you go.
ThisOriginally Posted by sprite1275
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Maybe it is a private road, unlikely they'd claim that if untrue.
Advice has been mostly what I was thinking - ignore and keep parking.
Pi55es me off though that they think people shouldn’t be parking on a public road when they live behind electric gates anyway? Treating it like their own private driveway.
Normally don't the signs mention parking permits? Our area has permits and it gives the driver notice that permits are required 8am - 8pm.
No gate to the road, no security firm employed, no mention of private road for the past 10 years, falls under Epping council control and responsibility.
It’s not a private road.
Fair enough but private roads aren't always (usually even) gated with security.
Could be a private street though (and there is a difference)...
Even legit yellow signs are accompanied by appropriate road markings. These are just looky likies. I can envisage that the residents might be annoyed if people have been parking on the grass verges.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
People did used to park on the grass verge sometimes so they installed the low wooden barrier you can see in the first pic. I assumed the council did that, but maybe not?
If it genuinely is a private road and they want to stop people parking they need to employ a private parking company. I wonder how much that would cost?
It would likely be free, with the 'fines' banked by them.
Had to work out exactly where that is, I cycle down there sometimes, it’s right about where I turn to come back home, I’ll do it in the week and take a look
Looking the road up on
https://www.essexhighways.org/intera...nformation-map
It lists each individual Street lamp as an asset on the road and states that it is maintained, so not a private road.
You can click on the road and it says maintained, local road. Clicking on the side streets says private as you would expect if they are gated.
Where are the letterboxes?
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Sounds like the old people near me that put rocks on the councils bit of grass outside their houses then go out to paint them with white paint every few months
They pay to live behind the gates. The world carries on outside of the gates.
They should have thought about the parking situation on the public road outside the gates before paying hundreds of thousands.
Residents wanting nice uncluttered access to their community, the signs should read "no riff-raff".
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Looks like the grass verges are private property but the road is council owned - hence the clever use of phrasing on the signs. Residents probably put the wooden fencing up too, which is fair enough but parking on the road is none of their business.
All in it together.
Or worked a bit harder so as to be able to afford their own estates...paups trying to get above themselves, lolz.
The easiest way to check is to look at the RTO (Road Traffic Order) This will be held by the Local Authority controlling the space. Either County or other.
You may need a FIR (Freedom of Information Request). Most local Authorities delegate parking provision to sub companies, which are separate to the LA's but are funded through LA's revenues. In Essex we have the South & North Parking Partnership https://www.parkingpartnership.org/south/, these groups maybe involved in the sort of action you've stated? I hope this is of some help?
Those are definitely not official signs, and if the road is adopted and maintained by the local authority it is not private property.
Putting those signs up is therefore probably fraudulent. I’d simply ignore them, and if anyone tried clamping or restricting your car access I’d call the police.
Local residents associations (of which I was once a chair), cannot simply start claiming legal control of public rights of way no matter how much they might want to. That road is maintained by your taxes and not paid for privately by them.
When I was chair it was a private road and thus we had to maintain it and also take out public liability insurance.
So clever my foot fell off.
Reading the thread it appears the signs are apparently on land that is not owned by the council, in other words they are erected on private property and no parking is allowed on that private property (the verges).
However no parking wouldn't extend to the road which is apparently adopted by the council. I wouldn't bother reporting the signs as I doubt the council could legally do anything about them, I'd just carry on parking on the road as you're not actually breaking any laws.
That makes sense, kind of.
So although the signs might be legitimate regarding the verge, where no one can park anyway unless they break through the barrier, they're clearly designed to fool people into thinking it applies to the road as well.
Seems a lot of trouble to go to for not much reward - there were five other cars parked at the same time as us. And the huge day-glo sign at the beginning of the road looks way worse than a line of parked cars.
There's nowt queerer than folk
That makes sense, kind of.
So although the signs might be legitimate regarding the verge, where no one can park anyway unless they break through the barrier, they're clearly designed to fool people into thinking it applies to the road as well.
Seems a lot of trouble to go to for not much reward - there were five other cars parked at the same time as us. And the huge day-glo sign at the beginning of the road looks way worse than a line of parked cars.
There's nowt queerer than folk
One of life's more important lessons,
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Something else to consider, is the signs will have needed Planning Permission, maybe a gentle approach to your local Planning Enforcement Officer may glean you more information?[/B]
One of life's more important lessons,
My thoughts exactly.
Private signs on public property must require planning permission, surely.
its private property no? the verge is private and the road is public.
Sounds like there might have been problems with people parking on the verge. Given that the verge is private and the signs have been placed thereon, I'm not sure there's anything to report.
Why would the residents of the gated communities even care who was parking on the road?
Maybe it makes exiting from the development a hazard with traffic and sightlines?
Found the pic of the fence with the gate and the multibough tree on google streetview. Yeah - it's not at the entrance to the development.
Looks like there was partial wooden barrier before, and they have extended it now? I guess they got fed up of people parking half on the grass. (or even on the road) opposite their individual cul-de-sacs?
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6875...7i13312!8i6656
Am I reading the location correctly?
Last edited by blackal; 3rd January 2023 at 16:12.
Not sure the lamp post is considered private property; yet it is where road parking restrictions can be placed, by the HA. Even the council cannot put signs there without the approval of the local HA.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
That streetview has single white lines by the side of the carriageway….this is what the highway code says apparently…
“Solid, unbroken white lines indicate that parking is allowed. However, in some cases a single white line may be an indication of no pavement and in this instance you must not park there.”
So I’m assuming you could park by the pavement but not the grass areas?
That's exactly it, and I remember them extending the barrier and thinking it was a good idea to stop people parking on the grass.
I guess if cars were parked on both sides it would be a problem but I've never seen it.
Vehicles driving on verges can cause a lot of damage to the turf, especially in the winter when the ground is soft. As the verges are privately owned by the residents, they would have to bear the cost of repair and maintenance, unless they are able to catch the culprit in the act of causing the damage and can get them to admit fault and pay up, which, in my experience, is unlikely. I suspect that is the reason for these signs - a somewhat misdirected attempt to protect the verges from damage.
Beaulieu Drive looks like a public highway, with no additional parking restrictions other than those implicit in the road's layout.
As the street lamps are planted in the grass verges, and there is a footpath between the verges and the gated housing, I don't see how the verges can be private either. Was it properly established that the verges are private, or is that just an opinion that developed within this thread?
Verges could be public - if that's the case, then the proprietors opposite perhaps just got fed up with people parking along the road, half on the verge.
At a guess that would reduce the road width by half a car width. If they now park fully on the road - it effectively becomes one-way for a stretch. That would piss me off trying to get out of one of the gates - for sure.
The grass verges and public open spaces on the development where we live are owned by the residents, there is a company set up to take care of upkeep, and every resident owns a share in the company and pays a small annual fee towards said upkeep. Some of the roads here are private and a large proportion are adopted by the local authority, but as mentioned all the verges and open spaces are private, i.e. owned by the residents.
Our estate is managed by an agent and we have to pay a ground rent, walkers park here and the committee are considering sign like this
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But people would still be able to park there?
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