Reply With QuoteSelling the sizzle...
A miracle polish here where over the sound of ground metal the worried owner is assured no metal is being removed.
https://youtu.be/i1L9izbVw8I
Selling the sizzle...
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Would be better if she stopped talking.
Interesting, but I winced when she went so close to the bezel without protecting it in some way.
Should at least tie back her hair.
I served a 5 year apprenticeship as a toolmaker and everything that I and thousands of others were taught has been turned upside down by the ramblings of WISs.
Stainless steel can have a good polished finish provided by the cutting tool which removes metal. If you want an even more polished surface you can use one of a dozen techniques that will make the metal more smooth and shiney without removing metal. Normally this is done by hand with ultra fine emery cloth or similar. You could spend all week making the metal shinier without removing 1 thou of metal.
This seems to be accepted by everyone except watch collectors.
To be fair you do see bad examples of mauled watch bodies have have been butchered on the edges and many winding knob protectors have all but been removed. This however is not due to the process of polishing, it is due to the action of an untrained gorilla going hell for leather in removing too much metal.
The result of this is that thousands of WISs are walking around with beaten up watches on their wrist and have been conditioned to see it as a badge of honour.
I have recently had an Omega serviced and told the repairer not to touch the case and its showing 35 years of wear and looks a mess. I also have a 1980 1655 Explorer11 which looks even more bashed up than me and the AD told me that he could make it look like new but it would be devalued. Consequently if you were ever to meet me you would see an old man wearing an even older looking watch.
Such is the crazy world of watch collecting.
I don't know if it's funny or depressing.
Watching that video I’m not convinced the watch had any scratches or Pitt’s in the first place
Please keep going, I get a good laugh at nearly everything you post.Originally Posted by Mick P
This is a good one though.
Well if you can't work out the difference between polishing and removing metal, then you are a lost cause.
You couldn't make it up..
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Laughable.
Thank you for sharing your extensive professional qualifications, but regretfully, despite the energy behind your assertions, they are misplaced and fundamentally erroneous.
You cannot polish metal without removing metal. Fact.
What is open to subjective opinion is whether the amount of metal removed is significant. Yes, it can be microscopic in scale and everyone will have different tolerances as to when this becomes significant. But if you think that you can polish without removing metal you’re a lost cause.
According to comments from the lady in the video the metal is simply moved around like cake frosting. No metal is removed, it’s simply spread, like butter on toast to fill in the gaps.
If true then the alchemy of this artificer cannot be denied.
However I’m reluctant to take a bit of Lurpak to my Snowflake just yet.
You used the word microscopic and there lies the answer, you would not be able to detect the difference with a microscope let alone notice the difference by eye.
However I have accept the fact that the "polish is bad" policy has taken over and we now have loads of people walking around with shagged out looking watches. The point I am making that a skilled polisher can polish and you would not notice any difference in size and corners would still remain sharp.
Any polishing process will remove traces of metal, this is kept to an absolute minimum if done correctly and there will be no perceptible loss.
Trying to get the watch fraternity to understand this is impossible, the cult of the unpolished case now prevails and as Mick points out, a battered old watch is almost seen as a badge of honour.
Despite becoming quite good at this work I’ve virtually stopped doing it, it takes too long doing it my way and I don’t enjoy it any longer. I also find the negativity towards refinishing that’s developed in recent years off putting, it devalues and discredits the skill required to produce good results. I do the odd one to keep my hand in but that’s all.
You are the patron saint Jude the Apostle and I claim my fiver.
Please enlighten us as to what these techniques are?
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
In a scratch the surrounding metal is raised up, this has to be pushed back in. Not saying it's possible but different to spreading metal like frosting from rest of the watch.
I don't think there's anything magical about this, it's a phenomenon that's been understood for a very long time. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnishing_(metal)
"Burnishing is the plastic deformation of a surface due to sliding contact with another object. It smooths the surface and makes it shinier. Burnishing may occur on any sliding surface if the contact stress locally exceeds the yield strength of the material. The phenomenon can occur both unintentionally as a failure mode, and intentionally as part of a metalworking or manufacturing process."
"Burnishing is not always unwanted. If it occurs in a controlled manner, it can have desirable effects. Burnishing processes are used in manufacturing to improve the size, shape, surface finish, or surface hardness of a workpiece. It is essentially a forming operation that occurs on a small scale."
See also:
https://monaghantooling.com/how-burn...hout-strain-2/
"Burnishing is a method for hardening and polishing metal surfaces that have previously been machined. When metal is machined, microscopic peaks and valleys create surface roughness. A burnishing tool for metal compresses the peaks into the valleys to harden and even the surface. Any visual defects are eliminated and the process leaves a smooth shine."
"The main difference between abrading and burnishing is that abrading removes metal from the part. "
Whether the tool in the video actually is doing this I don't know, but in principle - it's quite possible.
+1
After all, she is polishing the head.
No pun intended.
I don’t understand why people don’t want their watches to look nice.
I get the concept of preserving a significant historical item but that doesn’t apply to my watches.
I polish my shoes and I want my watches looking nice.
Anyone worrying about material being removed should weigh their watches before and after service. There will be no difference as the amount of material removed will be negligible if done well
I get why someone would want a watch to be as it was when it left the factory, but a watch with faded, beaten-up parts isn't such a watch. Then there are those with a highly-prized 'unpolished' watch that they haven't owned since new, so they can't really know what's been done to the watch. And those who have tracked down an original watch but happily drive around in a concours (and therefore heavily restored) classic car.
I'm not criticising or judging - I have been each of those people over the years. I guess I'm saying that I gave up on the logic of all this years ago!
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The trouble is that polished steel develops very fine hairline scratches within a very short period no matter how much you baby a watch. Those little hairlines are just inevitable and if they bother you imho you just have to learn to live with them. I’ve dabbled with cape cod cloths in the past and been very careful - but the scratches will reappear whatever you do so I realised it’s a total waste of time. Deeper dings and gouges are different, but if you’re polishing your watch like you polish your shoes, it’ll look like a silvery boiled sweet before long!
The tool in the video is not burnishing. What it is doing is abrading, therefore it is removing metal.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Every watch I have ever had serviced has been refinished/polished.
I never touch them myself, I don’t have the skills and would probably do more harm than good.
I just accept the slow deterioration in finish between services.
This Gold Rolex was weighed before and after.
https://youtu.be/ClSrYKhrL8Q
I was advised there is a limited number of times I should get my gold Patek polished. So normally I don't get the case polished at service (an optional extra). I guess the same would be true of any all gold watch / bracelet.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
Oh no, how incompetent, they should have used the “Mick Method” of no loss polishing.
Maybe put it on the patented “Mick P 85” “for polishing with no losssing”
(Machine is advertised by Sean Connery, so read it in a Sean Connery accent)
Last edited by watchlovr; 17th April 2023 at 12:17.
You have obviously never polished metal for a living and hence the gormless bloody piss take.
Methods of polishing without removing vital dimensions that were taught to thousands of apprentices and used by workers in nearly every factory in the UK included using emery cloth, liquid and pastes that "shined out" scratches but did not affect the overall size of the widget. The dimensions were often measured with micrometers and the pre polish and after polish measurements remained the same. They were certainly invisible to the naked eye.
It does not need a patent because this was done before WW1.
So the apprenticeship was successful then?
Given your apparent profession, I assume that you know how emery cloth works? Abrasion, by its very definition, removes material. As such, this: "but did not affect the overall size of the widget" simply cannot be right. Have you never sanded and polished something to get a perfect interference fit? I'd have though you had at some point in your apprenticeship.
Yes emery cloth is an abrasive in hard metal such as steel. It is however super smooth and if you were to rub your finger over it, you would not detect any element of abrasion or roughness. The pastes and liquids were even smoother.
A common application of a strip of emery was to polish a surface on something that had been previously machined. If the item was measured at say 0.999 inches in size, you could bet your life that after polishing it would still be 0.999 inches in size.
Sanding paper is gritty and if you use that on wood you will produce dust and will reduce the item in size but sanding paper and emery cloth are two different animals.
I genuinely believe you know this but just wanted a slanging match, therefore I will no longer engage with you as it will be counter productive and life is too short to waste time on something that is common knowledge and common practice.
All of those methods result in metal loss Mick. They may be invisible to the naked eye the first time, but if you keep doing it, it IS going to show.
You could polish it twenty times (by a skilled polisher) and you would be hard pushed to notice it. The problem is that heavy handed semi skilled operatives have butchered many watches and it has spooked the watch fraternity.
I accept that it has gone beyond the point of no return and if you want to keep the value of your watch high, you will have to wear it with all of its scratches and marks on display.
Utter nonsense.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Just keep digging.
I work with metal every working day, I’m a Plater to trade, i build bridges, oil rigs, etc.
This week? Submarines.
I’ve also hand polished/brushed and taken out dents/dings on plenty of watches.
Emery cloths and a dremmel with mop and different polishing medium bars.
Just because someone sometime told you this twaddle and you’ve believed it all your life doesn’t make it true.
What does the bottom line say and why do you think its being said?
Then all I can say is that the skills that we had in my younger day have gone and have been replaced by a bunch of semi skilled (insert whatever).
Polishing was a highly skilled and well paid job and it's sad to see it go.
Every time you paint a room it gets smaller
You may deem it insignificant and/or not notice it, but it's still true
Same applies here
Yes but no one will complain that the room is smaller.
PS I will qualify that, only a bunch of awkward TZ-UK troublemakers would complain about it.
Last edited by Mick P; 17th April 2023 at 15:19.
Perhaps you made the right career choice by moving into post office middle management?
Last edited by ODP; 17th April 2023 at 15:20.
We've all seen lugs thinned by polishing so it definitely does remove metal. The main factor is where the polishing is taking place. Over polish something like a lug where is it easier for the eye to make a comparison against the other side and it will be much more noticeable than the side of a case. Polish an edge badly and you can rapidly turn the case from something having sharp edges to something that resembles a shiny pebble.
Plus, the volume of a watch is about a millionth the size of a small room so I suspect you'd notice polishing on a watch much more readily.
Nobody likes a bull$$hiter on here, that is why you constantly get challenged.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Were you previously a watch polisher? And is it going to be you that tells one of the holy trinity of watch makers that they're semi skilled or should we leave that to hodinkee? (or perhaps Archie luxury)
No I have never been a polisher but for a couple of years I worked along side of them and the big boast was that whatever they had to polish, they could do it and still keep the product within its manufacturing limits. In other order words, they could polish without swiping off metal.
As I have previously stated, possibly there are too many sub standard polishers in the watch industry.
I can assure you that I absolutely know the opposite. Emery comes in a very wide range of grades, perhaps you can tell me precisely what grade you have in mind?
For example, what grade kept the edges sharp on this bit of home brewed butchery?
Give me a polished watch any day of the week . “The dings all tell a story” what story? One where you banged it against a door frame . I sent my watch off to the watch polisher who sent it back factory fresh.
+1
This scratch tells the story of when I went into the kitchen for ice cream at 1am while binge watching box sets. I could never polish it out, way too much meaning
Nothing to do with telling a story.
To do with keeping the original lines of the watch.
Good fun though this is, it’s pointless arguing with;
a. A troll
b. An idiot
c. Both?
So an unpolished watch may have originals lines, but unoriginal dings and scrapes all over it - but the lines make it appealing?
Have a look at some of the work by guys like The Watch Polisher ,the watch lab etc who micro weld and can put lines back on to watches if they have been butchered by an over enthusiastic polisher.
Makes me enjoy my watches more now- because frankly any damage I know they can repair. I'm less precious about them.
Never has this felt more appropriate.
And yes, original lines and abrasions are more appealing than an immaculate multi polished watch thats had to be rebuilt with new metal because Timothy cant bear a hairline.
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