Reply With QuoteWhy not buy second hand or grey?
I am looking to buy my fiancee a 40th birthday present - her first "nice" watch.
Within my budget of about £7k we've looked at a lot and the one she generally comes back to is the Breitling Chronomat 31, two-tone with diamond dots.
It's a lovely looking thing but when compared with some of the others we've seen I can't help wondering why it has a RRP of £6,650.
This is the watch:
Breakdown of details is:
Mother of pearl dial.
Two-tone bracelet with rose gold bezel, crown and markers.
The movement is Breitling's Super Quartz which, while I understand isn't a "normal" movement, still makes me question its cost.
Full details here: https://www.breitling.com/gb-en/watc...2/U77310101A2/
By way of comparison the others we have seen include the new Tudor BB31 with a diamond dot champagne dial.
Similar details to the Breitling in terms of gold - bezel, crown, markers, two-tone bracelet, diamond markers - but with an in-house automatic movement.
Price is £1750 cheaper on the Turdor at £4900.
Obviously I want her to have what she wants and I am a big Breitling fan but, particularly with regards that movement, I can't help feel it's overpriced.
Am I missing something? Can anyone fill in my knowledge gap?
Cheers all.
Why not buy second hand or grey?
I can’t comment on the movement,but a fair few years ago I bought my wife a galactic 36,mother of pearl,diamond dot.
The rrp was around 4.5k so with inflation I’d say it isn’t that bad ,but we got 20% off from iconic.
So I’d say shop around.
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Breitling seem to have a retail price and a 20% discount/grey market price
Gold and diamonds...
forego those two and you're down to £4k-ish territory.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
It’s a premium brand with gold and diamonds, so in terms of money, it is what it is.
Heresy I know on a watch forum, but is a watch what your fiancée wants? As bad a watch nerd as I am, my wife got diamond earrings for her 40th, as that was what she wanted.
If she wants a watch then get her the one she wants, it doesn’t need to be a WIS approved. Although you can get grey discounts, I would take her to a boutique and get the full on experience, but maybe do some behind the scene price negotiation first. If you pay 10% more than a grey you will forget about the money, but she will remember the experience.
Dave
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£5210 on Swiss watches direct
Even with a large discount, it will depreciate very badly.
That's fine if you / she love/s it and are aware of the loss the moment you leave the store, but don't in any way think that it will hold a significant part of its cost.
There is a reason things are heavily discounted.
I would also volunteer that Breitling service / access to parts rarely bring joy and not many people buy multiple Breitlings / a series of Breitlings. Two former managers of Breitling main agent work for me. Without the manufacturer bearing the flak for any problems, they are now both firmly now in my camp re the brand...
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 12th May 2023 at 12:34.
To be honest, I’m not sure that a Lady DateJust with gold and diamonds is going to to have Submariner / GMT like residuals.Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton
D
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They’ll be a mile better than a lady’s Breitling.
Only this week I offered £9,000 (as a dealer looking to make a profit on that) for a 3017 bicolour Datejust 279383RBR with a new price of £15,800.
A chasm between their residual performances.
It costs that much because Georges Kerne decided that Breitling were undercharging, and upped their prices. Given their performance in the years since he took over, he has been proven right, they have rocketed up the top 20 Swiss manufacturers
Just bought my daughter a beautiful Tudor watch for her graduation which is a fraction of the price of that, will hold its value better, and is a stronger design all round. I can't remember it's name, but I'd steer clear of Breitling all day long.
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If it’s residual, then Rolex, no question.
If it’s a watch for life, and you never wish to sell, then you might as well have what you want. Residual isn’t so important then.
D
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I’d say it’s optimistic to think of a modern Breitling as a watch for life. If you can keep it serviced and get the parts, it’s going to be expensive ownership even if you never crystallise the depreciation.
Well….
I sold my only Breitling, mainly because I couldn’t accept the running costs for a quartz watch.
All my Rolex have been serviced at RSC. My Swiss only 14270 cost be £1000 to serviced within 6 months of me buying it as it had a “classic” movement. Pretty expensive for what it is, a definite loss-maker, but I love the watch and won’t sell it, so that cost is OK.
Sometimes these things have to be framed beyond a financial proposition.
D
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Well it's fair to say I didn't expect the breadth of comments here.
A couple of points in general in response to what a few have asked, then some specifics to two of you if you don't mind.
1st, my fiancée has slowly been getting more interested in watches since meeting me and is really keen to have a watch. She's LOVING trying them on and deciding what she likes and doesn't so no issues there.
2nd, residuals don't matter in general as she intends for this to be something to keep, wear for years and, eventually, be passed onto our daughter.
Because of the above my biggest desire is for her to have the one she wants. If that's the Breitling then that's what she'll get though she will probably consider some of the thoughts in this thread so that may change her mind. I have tried to persuade her that the aesthetics are the most important thing and not to think of the £££ but she looks at things differently to me.
3rd, I appreciate all the suggestions of going grey. That's already my intention, whichever route we go down.
More specifics:
Hi Haywood, thanks for the response. I have 3 Breitlings, although only one has been for service so far, and not had any issues. I'd love a bit more info on what you mean here? Also, specifically regarding the watch I'm discussing for my fiancée, I had assumed that servicing a quartz, albeit a Superquartz, would be far less problematic? What issues are you/people in the industry/customers encountering? In my mind I probably thought that it'd never go to Breitling again. Are you saying that's not the case? I'd love your input please.
Hi helidoc. Can you elaborate please? What were the costs you mention? Is it not a simple battery change when it comes to the time?
Many thanks and keep the thoughts coming.
My Breitling was an Ana-Digital one, an Aerospace that I was very fond of.
Breitling schedule at the time was £150 for a battery change, then £475 for a full service. I figured I would get away with two battery changes before Breitling demanded service.
When it needed a battery I took it to a very well regarded independent for a more palatable £50 for a battery and reseal, at the end of that there was a display error. The watch went back to Breitling, it was £475 to rectify, although the independent generously paid the difference between the battery change and service.
I took the view that keeping it required Breitling service, and that would average £850 over 10-12 years.
I wouldn’t have the service worries for a simple 3-hander, as I would use an independent for battery changes. Should a watch need to go to Breitling, their service abilities are known to be excellent, although not cheap.
D
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Last edited by helidoc; 13th May 2023 at 09:56.
That detail is useful and important for our decision - thank you! This isn’t a digital as you say so my plan to just take it to a decent watchmaker for battery changes would still suffice.
I’m still concerned with some of what Haywood has said so will wait for his response before relaying to my fiancée.
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A simple quartz module does not mean that running costs will be low or servicing and access to parts easy.
She will scratch or chip the glass.
She may bump the crown or it may pull out altogether.
A bracelet screw or link may fail.
The dial paint may deteriorate.
Fifteen years from now I wouldn't be surprised if some of those became real problems to have corrected. Even if they happened sooner, most would require a return to Breitling to be addressed, with a compulsory service to boot.
They will continue to revise the models every year, dating every preceding generation in the process.
You never really own a Breitling. You just stomach the running costs and depreciation until the lesson is learned.
H
Buy her a Seiko quartz, I've been the owner of several of their King and Lord Quarz watches, running for decades with only a battery hatch to open for yourself or a jeweller
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Have you considered suggesting a TT OQ if she likes the style of the Breitling?
Quartz, TT, integrated bracelet, well within budget for a nice sharp one at that price, and minimal devaluation?
MrsV has a 17000 full steel that had a new movement put into it a couple of years ago along with a service, and she will not wear anything else these days. It's bombproof for a woman.
Im pretty sure there was one on SC recently.
Holy Christ. Over £6k for a Quartz Breitling? Even with the gold and diamonds that seems…punchy.
Anyway, can you steer your fiancée towards a Quartz Longines Conquest? That should come in under a grand. Put the money you will save towards the honeymoon, something like that.
That's a great recommendation
There are loads of 2 tone quartz watches with diamonds for around 2k even Tissot or Titoni (granted gold plated) or Longines. Reality is I am sure one big pull of this watch is its a Breitling and a recognised brand. Not vintage, not a "lower end" brand but a brand in the eyes of Joe public on the same level as Rolex, Omega, IWC etc... its this very reason they can put a 6K price on the watch and others cannot.
It really is a case of buy what you like but if you buy the "lesser" brand or the "not quite what she wanted" brand you may end up buying twice or three times over and end up spending near 6K anyway.
Well, if Joe Public votes with his wallet, let's remember that typically every single watch in the UK Top Twenty best sellers in the £5,000+ price range is Rolex. Not a single entry from any other brand.
It's entirely valid for people to advise "buy what you like," "don't be a sheep" etc, but if you were buying a car with your own money would you buy the Mercedes or the Alfa / Maserati ?
Work colleague has an Alfa and loves it. His money I guess and yes, he could have probably afforded to buy something else but didnt. Show a watch to most people and the response is "Oh its heavy must be expensive" "Oh its got one of those hands that doesnt tick" etc.....
Does it make more financial sense to not buy a Breitling? Of course it does I am not saying it doesnt it would make more sense to me to just buy a Longines or Tissot or whatever for a couple of grand and keep the other four grand in your pocket but chances are buying something someone doesnt "really" want always ends up with buying something else to make up for it.
Just trying to imagine opening the gift "Hi love, got you a new watch. No its not the one you wanted but in 5 years it will be worth this much compared to the one you actually wanted"
Just curious though, how is Rolex 20 out of 20 in top 20 watches in the 5K price range if there are waiting lists for years?
There are no waiting lists. Some watches are readily available if you are prepared to develop a genuine relationship with an AD and invest time in that sensibly and regularly. And I don't mean spending a lot of £££ on other items first. I mean sharing your interests in watches and building trust so they know you are not going to flip the first Rolex you buy.
Just because demand outstrips supply doesnt mean that demand isnt being met.
The reason *you cant get them is because there are people ahead of you with more spending power waiting to buy them.
Plenty of big brand watches in the windows - but if they're in the window, they arent being put round someones wrist as soon as they land.
*general you, not you personally.
Ah Ok I assumed there were still waiting lists from reading threads here I bought mine a few years back and waited a couple of months before it arrived. I didnt spend any huge amount of money there prior to getting it either.
Building a relationship with my dealer??? No, really?
Is money an issue?
Does it have to be an investment?
Do service costs matter?
If 'no' is the answer to all those questions, buy what she likes and sod Rolex.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Oh, you dare devil, living on the edge ;)
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
I second that.
If that's what she wants then that she wants. You go and get it.
I have to say that I found the lady Breitlings rather nice when I was looking for my wife. Also the lady speedmaster was fantastic in the metal.
HM is quite an advocate for Rolex, but just sometimes it isn’t what you, or your significant other wants. It isn’t all residual value, holidays generally cost thousands, and leave you with little more than memories and some added pounds.
I like Rolex, it’s my most owned brand, but I also recognise them as a little ubiquitous and somewhat boring. I’m sure when SWMBO asks for a watch, it will me an Omega Connie, and she will ignore any attempt to steer her towards an alternative.
As I’ve said, I wouldn’t worry about buying my significant other a Breitling, if that was what appealed, having also looked at Rolex, Omega and Cartier.
D
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OP if your initial points are met - there will be little point your fiancee expecting to leave her watch to your daughter if it can’t be easily repaired.
Absolutely buy the watch she will be happy with, but, hopefully act on the advice from HM for long term satisfaction.
Particularly as you now say she is becoming interested in watches, don’t rush - none of the watches I own look anything like the ‘dress’ watches I preferred before getting hooked
Last edited by Suds; 15th May 2023 at 16:48.
My wife isn’t really into watches but has had a couple of men’s quartz Tag Heuers as daily wearers. She’s small and dainty but her watch looks like she’s been using it to hammer in nails! Seriously, women are incredibly tough on watches in my experience, they get worn against bracelets, banged in and out of the dishwasher, sprayed with perfume - have to grab hers every now and again for a really good scrub and clean!
Also, the quartz movements - whilst pretty easy to change the battery if you know what you’re doing - will need servicing eventually and in my experience they eventually just fail. I’ve never bothered replacing as by then the watch looks like she needs a new one!! I’m also not sure I’d be changing the battery myself in a £6500 watch. They’ll bend you over a barrel and you’ll wait weeks for a job that takes about 2 minutes and a £2 battery!
So, give up on the romantic notion of passing it to a daughter, it’ll be totalled by then!!
The alternative is a decent brand with a solid automatic moment, a more classic look and a design which can take a bit of refinishing. I’m buying my wife a black bay 58 in blue for her next birthday, or perhaps the new 36mm black bay with the new in-house movement on a jubilee. She can’t read the date anyway without glasses, and prefers her diamonds on a ring!
Ps if she wants a watch she can actually use to tell the time when she’s 55+, she needs to steer clear of diddly little ladies dials!
Last edited by RobDad; 15th May 2023 at 18:03.
I honestly think of those tiny watches as ‘old lady watches’ - they somehow seem to belong to another age. A bit ‘a little watch for my little lady’ (no offence to the OP intended at all) Most women I work with have Apple Watches or something like a 36mm. I just can’t imagine the old style tiny ones are at all legible and their secondhand value suggests it’s a shrinking market too?
I am a Breitling owner. It was a mistake. When I had an IWC Portuguese in one hand and the Navitimer in the other, I chose incorrectly. Breitling have a history and a brand, but it's a wannabe brand. I haven't seen my Navi for years, will sell it soon, I just don't gel with it. That Breitling will be near worthless the moment it leaves the store.
When it comes to Ladies watches there are two prime contenders for classic status IMHO. The Rolex Datejust is excellent, 7k on Chrono24 for a steel and yellow metal with rocks. The other is the Cartier Tank Francais. It's timeless (forgive the pun). You can get a near perfect used one on Chrono24 for a great price. My Mrs frequents Ladies coffee events and the TF is almost like a uniform. She has both.
Your money, your choice, but that Breitling would be at the bottom of the list.
Last edited by Bestofthebest; 15th May 2023 at 20:02.
I loved Breitling and IWC. Unfortunately, they both went downhill and became the wannabe brand under Georges Kern's commandership.....Truely shame....
Tell you what some of grand Seiko offerings are rather nice too.
Might be worth a visit to, Bicester Shopping Outlet, they have a Breitling store.I am looking to buy my fiancee a 40th birthday present - her first "nice" watch.
Within my budget of about £7k we've looked at a lot and the one she generally comes back to is the Breitling Chronomat 31, two-tone with diamond dots.
It's a lovely looking thing but when compared with some of the others we've seen I can't help wondering why it has a RRP of £6,650.
This is the watch:
Breakdown of details is:
Mother of pearl dial.
Two-tone bracelet with rose gold bezel, crown and markers.
The movement is Breitling's Super Quartz which, while I understand isn't a "normal" movement, still makes me question its cost.
Full details here: https://www.breitling.com/gb-en/watc...2/U77310101A2/
By way of comparison the others we have seen include the new Tudor BB31 with a diamond dot champagne dial.
Similar details to the Breitling in terms of gold - bezel, crown, markers, two-tone bracelet, diamond markers - but with an in-house automatic movement.
Price is £1750 cheaper on the Turdor at £4900.
Obviously I want her to have what she wants and I am a big Breitling fan but, particularly with regards that movement, I can't help feel it's overpriced.
Am I missing something? Can anyone fill in my knowledge gap?
Cheers all.
I'd certainly contact a number of dealers and see what they can offer. CW Sellors, Hammond's, Jura etc are all open to a bit of haggling usually.
Worth a try
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I bought this for my partner for Christmas/ birthday gift.
It was the only watch I’ve seen her show a keen interest in, in the 12yrs we’ve been together.
I agree Cartier Tanks, Rolex DJ, & even Subs look great on women. I knew this was what she liked & would wear.
Yes maybe overpriced for an ETA, but it ticks all the boxes.
https://www.tudorwatch.com/en/watche...te/m53000-0079
Was some interest shown in Tag Heuer Carreras, but the sizes were either too big or too small.
Maybe quartz would’ve been better/ convenient. As it’s always given to me to set when not been worn. Her daily again seems to be iWatch.
Anyways buy what she likes, otherwise it’s wasted money if not worn.
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I was in the Bentall Centre in Kingston today, and Breitling are opening up a dedicated boutique, read shop.
Eric Haaland plastered all over the hoardings, except he has a seriously expensive watch collection and doesn’t give a sh1t about Breitling except for his sponsorship money.
OP - you said this
There is your answer! Buy her the one she likes. I’ve had Breitling in the past and SQ (which are HEQ - thermo-compensated movements accurate to +-5s/year). I had one of the first SQ B-1 which I foolishly sold. The only problem I’ve had with a Breitling that ended up with a replacement - was one of the B50 and that was dealt with courteously by customer services.…the one she generally comes back to is the Breitling Chronomat 31, two-tone with diamond dots.
I really wouldn’t take too much heed from a bunch of old internet watch nerds (no offence intended) although you did ask.
Do try AMJ watches https://amjwatches.co.uk as I’ve had good service from them. I would expect 15% discount off retail from a dealer if you “walk in” and buy on the day.
Have fun and I hope your wife enjoys the watch.
Full disclosure: my wife wears a TT gold and steel ladies 32mm? DJ she wears everywhere (gardening / swimming / holidays 24x7 gets bashed by bracelets and trinkets but runs strong. And also has a Cartier full gold for special occasions.
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 21st May 2023 at 08:50.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
Asked a jeweller and Breitling AD what they could do on the model listed and they came back with £5450 for a box fresh, straight from breitling that hasn't sat in a window at all.
Thought it may help you gauge what's ahcievable relatively easily
Good luck
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While I have generally always been a subscriber to the 'buy what you want and to hell with conventional wisdom' school of thought, I also have a great respect for HM of this parish and the collective wisdom of the forum. My own view, for whatever it is worth, would be this - if your partner is only just getting into watches, buy a Rolex. It will never disappoint, it'll hold value, it'll be easy to live with, it's arguably a rite of passage for any watch enthusiast and.....if she's unlikely to start building a collection, it'll be a timeless choice. Boring, obvious, uninspired? I say classy and elegant, and as a potential heirloom what's not to love?
SGR
I’m hoping my Breitlings aren’t too much of a hassle to own - typing while wearing one - but at least this one has the Tudor movement, so should be serviceable, fingers crossed with the 57 and my old SuperOcean ;)
At one stage Breitling had an excellent reputation for their UK service centre, which then deteriorated rapidly. Now, I have no idea but doubt it’s much improved.
It's just a matter of time...
Whenever people do those ‘what brands do you just not get’ type threads my first response is always Breitling. The prices are extraordinary and the designs so meh. Good friend of mine who isn’t into watches bought himself a Super Ocean. He likes it which is the main thing, but I had a look and just thought wow, for what he’s paid for that I wouldn’t give it a second look - Pelagos 39 or Seamaster all the way.
But as others have said, if your other half loves it and it’s in budget and it’ll be a keeper then I wouldn’t worry about whether it’s overpriced for what it is, or about residuals. Although I wouldn’t be bothering with a boutique experience if I could get £1500 off on grey market, just go grey and spend the difference on a nice weekend away as a bonus gift. In total all that is about a years worth of brownie points in my book, unlimited trips to the pub with the lads without so much as a raised eyebrow.
Thought I'd update this thread after (finally) the conclusion to the hunt.
Thanks to some of the comments here my fiancée was definitely slightly put off the Breitling and continued the hunt. I was thrilled to see her engage with watches in the way some of us WIS do. She genuinely found it fun and, more importantly, interesting. She started talking about movements and bracelets with knowledge and was often online looking and researching when I came home from work!
Eventually we found a really great deal on an Omega Constellation, 29mm with the in house movement, mother of pearl dial and diamond dots.
She was so close to going for it but at the last moment she called Pragnells in Stratford, where we've visited a number of times, to see if they had any Rolex Datejusts she could look at.
They had a couple she might have been interested in. Both two-tone. The first was the white dial 28mm with golden roman numerals on the jubilee. The second was the 31mm, champagne dial with batons on the oyster bracelet. Two very different watches. They also brought out the very Omega she was wondering about for her to compare them all.
Here's the two Rolexes side by side.
It became clear by the way she left the Omega on the table that she was drawn to the Rolexes so that went away and then it was decision time. The staff at Pragnells were really patient and had multiple ways for her to make a decision. Eventually she decided there was one watch she clearly preferred and we walked out with....
The Breitling!
Not really...
That wasn't in consideration by yesterday.
She walked out with a gorgeous Rolex...
and is genuinely thrilled. Pragnells are absolutely lovely and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. They made Claire feel incredibly special. She had a couple of glasses of champagne while we were waiting for them to size the bracelet and package everything up and then surprised her with a bottle of bubbly to take home too.
Thanks to all who gave advice and thoughts on this thread. It really helped her come to the decision that was right for her.
Her 40th birthday present is done and she's thrilled.
Now to start saving for the big 5-0!
Last edited by tobywatches; 9th July 2023 at 14:19.
Looks great, happy birthday to her and congrats on choosing a great looking watch.
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