A problem with and concern for a neighbour

[adigra]

I'll try to summarise. We live in a very private house with almost no interaction with any neighbours. Our closest neighbours are a family and a grandfather who used to own their house, but has Parkinson's, so they moved in to help take care of him and then bought the house, so he's now a tenant. We never see any of them, except he used to come around on his walker, and then his scooter, to have a chat about my cars, or have me sign books for his granddaughter, etc. But as his condition deteriorated I saw him less and less. I actually have only ever met the daughter and him, the rest (the husband, their now adult son and 14-15 year old daughter) just avoid eye contact, which is weird but fine with me. They were "having a bad day" the week we moved in and had an argument in front of our gate, so that's the only time I ever almost met the husband, so I think they are embarrassed. This was two year ago.

Anyhow, the old man, to my surprise, comes to our door yesterday on his scooter to bring a couple of Amazon packages. He gets stuck on our step (his front wheels dropped down off the step and the scooter was beached), but when you ask him if he needs help he never responds. So I lift him back up. He proceeds to back into my wife's car twice and damages it, and before I could figure out what I could do he backs into my car, but I put my hand behind the scooter just in time. He then speeds off (and I mean literally, comedic level of speed) and after I assessed the damage I go to speak to him. It took him so long to get through his gate that by the time I got there he was still there trying to lock it so I couldn't get in. He denies the damage, says it will buff out, says he doesn't believe me, etc. I was kind of incredulous that he was acting like a child caught in the act and really had no idea what I should do. I ask to speak to his daughter, but he says he's alone. He then demands to come around look at the damage himself and take photos, but as soon as I turned away he locked the door.

Anyhow, we got in touch with the daughter who it turns out went to Bristol (we're near Leeds) with the family for a funeral at least overnight. The old man is alone, and if we hadn't actually been at home, he would've been stuck on our step for god knows how long. You wouldn't be able to see him from the road at all. He's now clearly not capable of taking care of himself, or seemingly being rational, so the whole thing seems really concerning to me. The daughter immediately agreed to pay for the damage without wanting to inspect or talk about it (she hung up on us when we called, but then agreed to everything via text).

What would you do? What could you do? I mean we never see them, and after this I don't think we'll see him either, but I kept waking up in the night thinking about it, but I have no idea if I need to do something. Maybe this was a one-off, maybe it wasn't. Maybe it's none of my business?

Edited to add that my wife just sent me a message to say the damage is £715 + VAT. I suspect now they will want to talk about it.

[r.dawson]

Tough situation and one, if you get involved further, you may get no thanks for. But that's not to say you shouldn't do anything.

Few situations have come up recently where I've had to go back to the adage that you can only judge yourself on what you believe is right regardless of others actions.

It might be worth reaching out to the family first to explain your concerns, give them a chance, however you'll never really know what the family dynamics are like. Otherwise it might be a report to the local authorities to take advice. It sounds like you just want to do the right thing and it won't settle right with you to just leave it.

[unclealec]

Awkward.
Concern must be for the poor guy's health and hapiness, and by the sound of it both could do with attention.
Maybe just see how the damage dialogue pans out, with more interest in establishing a dialogue that gaining recompense.
I would take great care to make it obvious that you are concerned for the guy way over and above getiing paid for the damage.

My bottom line would be that in a straight fight between paying for the damage myself and having a neighbour war - I would pay.

IMHO.

[pugster]

this sounds like a safeguarding/social care issue , you can try speaking to the family first or just get in contact with the local services and report it.
try contacting parkinsons uk to ask for advice

https://www.parkinsons.org.uk/

[adigra]

Thanks guys. This mostly lines up with what I've been considering.

There is more of a background to their situation as the day we met both the old man and the daughter, separately and completely unprovoked, complained about each other in quite unpleasant terms, and contradicted in almost every way. Everyone I've met, from the guy we bought our house from, to the local tradesmen, have painted a picture of a very difficult and unpleasant man, but I have only ever known him as a disabled, quite lonely old man, so I am very torn. Objectively he was quite awful yesterday, but subjectively I still feel concern for him. The rest of the family not so much. The daughter pushed so hard the week we moved in and stressed my wife out with increasingly more passive aggressive messages (some historic dispute over addresses dating back to the 60's). I put an end to that, she brought flowers to apologise, etc. Just drama from the moment we met them, but I think it's connected to that argument they had in front of our gate I mentioned above. It's absolutely none of my business.

I don't think they will speak to me as they are afraid of me, but I'll see if my wife will want to approach it. She's communicating with the daughter and has sent her the quote from the paintshop, which was received but not replied to yet.

[Onelasttime]

They sound like a difficult family all round so I'd be tempted to pursue them politely for the damage, but no more than that. Getting more involved will, I suspect, only lead to misery.

If the dad's fit enough to play bumper cars with his mobility scooter, then he's probably fit enough to fight whatever battles you perceive he might be fighting with his family.

If he'd arrived at your door with obvious bruises and sitting in his own filth, then I'd think differently and wonder about safe-guarding. But that doesn't sound like what you described.

Years ago we lived next door to an old lady who was on her own and always struggling when she was out and about. She was also a complete misery. We tried really hard to extend a helping hand, always said hello and attempted to have a chat, and eventually came out right out and asked if she needed anything, we were just next door, etc. She just used to wave us away and always looked annoyed. What are you meant to do? Force her to accept help?

There's nowt queerer than folk, but unless there's a genuine concern of abuse or whatever, I'd leave alone.

[wileeeeeey]

Difficult situation. I don’t envy you.

[mart broad]

As per post #5

“ There's nowt queerer than folk, but unless there's a genuine concern of abuse or whatever, I'd leave alone.”

[adigra]

I think I really need to read up about Parkinson's as I don't actually know exactly what it does to the mind. The physical disability is plain to see, but until yesterday I thought he was of a sound mind and that I could have a conversation with him. But I think I might drive myself mad trying to figure out what portion of what happened was his disability, physical or otherwise, and how much is down to just his personality. It really threw me off as it wasn't the kind of situation I've ever encountered before.

[Griswold]

Awkward.
Concern must be for the poor guy's health and hapiness, and by the sound of it both could do with attention.
Maybe just see how the damage dialogue pans out, with more interest in establishing a dialogue that gaining recompense.
I would take great care to make it obvious that you are concerned for the guy way over and above getiing paid for the damage.

My bottom line would be that in a straight fight between paying for the damage myself and having a neighbour war - I would pay.

IMHO.

This in total, but especially the sentence I've highlighted. Had a different but expensive problem with an elderly neighbour. He's son who lives down south got involved and it started getting nasty leading him to threatening solicitors even though it was, (the trees causing the problem), entirely my neighbours fault.

In the end I paid for the repairs myself, though she did have all the trees that were causing the problem removed and came round at a later date with a small cheque. Having ill feelings with someone you have to live next door to isn't worth the hassle.

[draftsmann]

I think I really need to read up about Parkinson's as I don't actually know exactly what it does to the mind. The physical disability is plain to see, but until yesterday I thought he was of a sound mind and that I could have a conversation with him. But I think I might drive myself mad trying to figure out what portion of what happened was his disability, physical or otherwise, and how much is down to just his personality. It really threw me off as it wasn't the kind of situation I've ever encountered before.

My professor-tutor at university had Parkinson’s. He had a mind like a razor and people I stayed in touch with after graduating who worked on doctoral theses under him told me he remained so even when his physical condition was advanced.

[stooo]

There is a type of Parkinson’s (lewy body) that comes with dementia type symptoms which could be consistent with what you experienced.

Parkinson’s is horrible.

I’d say unless you have a specific safeguarding concern leave it as ‘family business’.

[Neil.C]

It's a dilemma and sounds like the old chap has Parkinson's induced dementia.

If it were me I'd forget about chasing the neighbours for recompense, it just leads to more heartache.

[pugster]

if you decide to leave well alone then you need to advise amazon not to leave parcels with neighbours and put a lock on your gate incase he decides to come round and play bumper cars again.

[Suds]

Leave it to your wife to sort the compensation - you can always intervene if things go awry. It seems quite a strange family - I would just make a mental note and watch for any deterioration in the old guy’s health. I have other suspicions about this family which I won’t mention


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[lewie]

There is a type of Parkinson’s (lewy body) that comes with dementia type symptoms which could be consistent with what you experienced.

Parkinson’s is horrible.

I’d say unless you have a specific safeguarding concern leave it as ‘family business’.

Yeh my mum suffered from this - initial diagnosis parksons then Lewy bodies dementia- once the dementia took hold she when down hill quit rapidly
Both very distressing (for me) she peacefully passed away nearly 3 years ago from it
Started initially with confusion and seeing things/ people especially children - what I loved and it made me chuckle - she’d pop money in my bedside draw or chest of draws when I was at work 

I think I’d get the work done, pay it and send the daughter the bill- if she pays bingo- if not put it down to experience

[adigra]

Yeah, I'll leave it alone.

My wife has booked the car in for repair, and it will be done next week. We've given the neighbours the quote, as agreed and requested by them, but the repair will not depend on that. Any type of future relationship will though. If they don't honour it, it will forever sour any possibility of any kind of civility.

I asked my wife, who is English, how she would handle this if I wasn't in the picture. She couldn't answer. She was visibly upset, wanted it sorted, but at the same time anxious about confrontation. I am the opposite, I didn't know what to do as I come from a very confrontational culture, but have had to learn to live in this weirdly anxious, polite middle class existence. I am also intimidating physically, so am always very conscious of keeping a distance from people as I don't want to be accused of being threatening, so in this situation I literally froze as this disabled man was banging into our cars on our property on a quiet Sunday evening.

As for the car, the damage is all the way to the metal as the frame of his scooter scraped a whole strip of paint and primer, and it's next to another panel, so quite a large area to blend in.

[pacifichrono]

I would forget about it, assuming you get reimbursed. It's just one of life's potholes that are unavoidable. Be happy in your life and put this in your rear view mirror.

[dandanthewatchman]

There is a type of Parkinson’s (lewy body) that comes with dementia type symptoms which could be consistent with what you experienced.

Parkinson’s is horrible.

I’d say unless you have a specific safeguarding concern leave it as ‘family business’.

This is a possibility. My dad had Parkinson’s and the the dementia follows. Never easy to deal with


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[adigra]

To close this: Without making assumptions I can't say what the situation with the neighbours is, but they avoided talking to us, wouldn't reply to my wife's texts, just as soon as they returned from their trip texted to ask for her bank details and said that the father is very sorry for causing trouble. Money arrived, followed up by flowers for my wife from the old man, but still no replies to even the text to let them know my wife received it. As far as we are concerned it's the perfect outcome, and as I said, I can make all kinds of assumptions as to why things happened the way they did, why they are avoiding any kind of communication, why they didn't question the quote, etc., but as many of you advised, none of my business.

[lewie]

Well was a good outcome - maybe embarrassment ?

[Onelasttime]

They clearly don't want any trouble, but don't want to make friends either. That's a win win in my book

Now you just need to install an anti-mobility scooter barrier.

[Suds]

As mentioned I suspect they are avoiding you in case you ask why they left a vulnerable family member alone? But to be fair, they haven’t parked him in an old peoples home…

[adigra]

They clearly don't want any trouble, but don't want to make friends either. That's a win win in my book

Now you just need to install an anti-mobility scooter barrier.

We have electric gates, but tend to have them open during the day. Intercom and everything. We also have gravel, which his scooter really struggled on, and that step that goes down to the door which he has been stuck on before on his walker, but he was really intent on having a chat.

I agree, they clearly don't want any kind of trouble, and the outcome is as good as it can be for us. I feel very sad for him though, as it's a really horrible situation to be in and deteriorating. My wife reminded me that a few months ago he got stuck on a hill in our village, again on his scooter, and they had to go rescue him. I think he needs full time care, which is probably the reason things unfolded as they did.

[wildheart]

What a difficult situation. Alzheimer's UK will be able to put you in touch with the local Dementia Action Alliance, they may well be able to support this man. It sounds to me that the family should get the man signed to the Herbert Protocol with the local Police https://www.gmp.police.uk/notices/hp...rted%20missing.
I work with support for Dementia in my local community, these situations are not uncommon with scooter users with this disease. We have had to ban some users from our Shop Mobility Scooter Scheme in Chelmsford, when they have hit pedestrians. I feel for your predicament and hope you get your compensation.