Reply With QuoteThat’s the worst performance by an England team I have seen for years.
No structure, no game plan, no idea, not playing as a team
It’s hard to believe but England have gone backwards under Borthwick
It’s going to be a short World Cup for them
I spoke too soon.Originally Posted by Ruggertech
That’s the worst performance by an England team I have seen for years.
No structure, no game plan, no idea, not playing as a team
It’s hard to believe but England have gone backwards under Borthwick
It’s going to be a short World Cup for them
I don't think the performance was as good as you are making out - you are being too kind.
Truly, truly awful. Back in 2007 we went to France and had a wonderful time, we decided a few months ago not to book this time, and thank god for that.
Our club is bombarded weekly by the RFU offering tickets, I thankfully I am away for the most of the World Cup so can’t go. They were offering tickets for todays game at £10 this morning.
They need to offer you more than that ;)
A free brass and a gallon of IPA would not have got me to HQ to watch that shite.
What if they throw in a bag of chips? That would have me weakening :)
I have 14 days to discover my Irish heritage.
We do have home nations capability for glory in France, but sadly not my home nation.
I post this in the hope that it has my usual track record of being way off and making me look stupid.
Please England, make me look stupid.
We are in a mess no doubt, I think we could be in for a trouncing in the WC
Like many others, I have been so very dissapointed with Engand's performances, not only in these 'warm up games' (despite ticket prices being full test ones, £105 for Wales, don't get me started ), but throughout the last Six Nations as well
I believe that the coaching team have been far too reliant on many players who are past their best. It seems that we only get to see small glimses of exciting, attacking rugby when substitutions are made and players from the new crop are introduced
It is too late for this World Cup for them to make wholesale changes to the squad but surely Steve Borthwick & co have had enough time and enough opportunities to look at and try different players and impliment a different game plan
I'm sad to be writing this, but as an England fan something needs to change
I think a large part of the problem is the contracts the England players have.
The RFU contracts the elite squad at the start of each season (some have multi year contracts and they are separate to the club contracts) so the players are contracted to be in the squad regardless of performance, the coaching staff cannot make changes / drop players if their performance is below par nor can they bring in fresh blood unless there is a long term injury.
This is why the squad has remained unchanged for years.
Defensively they are very weak, they lost every defensive contact, the other teams have made too many meters made after contact is made in every game, in offence they are rarely getting over the gain line.
What is worrying is some of the interviews coming from the squad and the coaching staff. “We are focused on the game plan, we know what we are trying to achieve, we just need better execution etc”. The game plan is kick everything, that is plain to see, this is not winning rugby, you can not win the game if the other team have the ball, you have to kick when the time is right.
The players don’t want to put the ball through the hands, and when they do they lose all structure (over running, poor support), they are playing rugby by numbers.
The amount of advantage kicked away yesterday was criminal. It’s been the same since the last World Cup.
I don’t see it getting any better until the old guard are dropped and the younger players are given a chance to play the game they like to play. But really a whole change in the p way the RFU run the game is needed from the grass roots up.
To me it feels like that has been the game plan since the days of Rob Andrew with the rare jewel of a season when we would run with it.
I'll admit to being biased though. Having played as a forward, any kick and resulting loss in possession felt like a kick in the nuts from the backs as it was usually us who'd have done the hard work to win it back in the first place and would need to do it all over again.
I feel your pain!
As a life long back row I hate it when the 9 or 10 kick pointlessly, the only exception was the 2 seasons we had an Ex NZ Māori and Japan 10 playing for the club. He could do what he liked.
Feels a bit like pre bazball cricket. I don't think you need a load of new players, or that the ones we have aren't good enough.
Seems to have descended into a lack of belief, loss of confidence, and fear.
New regime and mindset shift after the WC and hopefully can turn around quite quickly.
Also, Ireland and Scotland are in a good place so hopefully they can cheer us up with some good performances
Wales seem to be at 6-7s too, but let's see how they go
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It’s a cunning plan to be the underdogs so that they carry no one’s expectations and others take them for granted.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
It's almost time!
______
Jim.
Yay!!!!
Looking forward to it!
National anthem choir is shite. Ruined their own French one.
Jim
Agree, sounded like a herd of feral cats
Maybe it is the ITV audio but atmosphere seems very flat
Very. Two of the best teams in the world and the crowd noise minimal. Strange
Jim
C’mon all you rugby historians.
Has any side ever refused to stand and take the Hakka and walk away and laugh.
Or is it another part of the old fashioned gentlemen’s rules of engagement.
J
A bit sterile. Can't see either of these sides troubling England or Wales......
Not so sure about that. I think france and ABs will wipe the floor with each of them.
Jim
Yes my tongue was very firmly in my cheek there!
Half-time in the first match.
ITV commentary is bobbins.
Broadcast coverage is very poor.
Jaco bloody Peyper.
______
Jim.
Wot you said.
Peyper is pumped up amongst the big boys. There has to be better than him?
Good opener I thought.
As much tactical as skillful, but credit to the Cocks, biggest NZ defeat at a World Cup and the first time they have lost a group stage WC game.
I thought the All Blacks were a tad unlucky with the yellow card. When I was alive that would have been a fair challenge for the ball. OK the ball was several feet away - but nobody's perfect.
Wasn't quite like watching the All Blacks of old though, was it! Anyone remember Colin Mead?
Last edited by unclealec; 8th September 2023 at 22:22.
All Blacks don't seek to have the wow players of old, BB aside. They got walloped by the Boks in their previous match so there is much to ponder on for Foster.
Last edited by ryanb741; 8th September 2023 at 22:29.
I'm sure David Campese did that once, just practising his kicking, but I can't find evidence on YouTube
I’m sure he did too and was pilloried for it by the games fathers.
What a load of tosh.
Why give a great team an even bigger head start by letting them get really into the zone before a ball is kicked. They deploy dark arts, as we saw tonight, during the game, so why not reverse that and walk away and scratch your arse or something else to show ambivalence to them.
Jim
I'm sure I remember one team - I think it might have been England when they had balls- advanced on the Haka and ended up eyeball-to-eyeball with the All Blacks. Still lost though.
I ran away from one once - does that count?
And on a related note - I defy anyone to watch Jonah Lomu's funeral Haka without welling up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovd3v0CPXJA
The mid-90s haka was the best
https://youtu.be/6ncmO3jMuuk?si=5iCYVKARX_519IRH
I asked the Fijian team we were playing if they knew what the Haka meant.
It was quite a lengthy reply - at least three pints long.
The bit that sticks in my mind was "I am Life. I am Death. I am a hairy man".
I faced a couple of hakas (NZ and Fiji). There was of course a fraction of the public the main teams got but I would have loved to have something similar to clear the pre-kickoff butterflies.
Somehow I don’t think that the Birdie song dance would have carried the same weight, though…
On another note, the haka the AB gave to the fallen from the Somme
https://www.planetrugby.com/news/wat...haka-in-france
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Very powerful.
GBT!
Jim
Releasing the dove triggered me UA
J
I don't know if this is Ireland at their best, or just Romania being relatively clueless, but this is too easy.
Ach, I do know, Ireland haven't got out of second gear.
Some cricket scores today so far. I think the next match will be a little more even and the one after that a bit more even again.
Let’s go.
Not expecting England to win the comp, but crazier things have happened.
Well that's about as bad a start as you could ask for.
I thought Curry was unlucky but them's the rules.
It’s not rugby any more this. Ridiculous.
The red is certainly not harming England thus far.
Yellow I can understand. Red? I share your sentiments.
Would be interested in a neutral supporters view on that red? Still can't see it after watching the replays. Am I biased?
As said by the pundits: don’t take the chance, wait for him to come down for the tackle. Head against head is text book definition of a red, mitigating (arms around the player, bent knees) deemed insufficient to bring it down a notch.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I'm not watching the game just keeping up to date online so haven't seen the incident, but a couple of Welsh Facebook friends whose rugby opinions I listen to say its not a red and are actually quite incensed by it. But saying that, they are old boys who hark back to a different era, would the bunker system get it wrong? I think its the best system we've had so far.
Also very true what SJ says above, Chris Ashton has also said the same about not risking the timing.
Last edited by Ruggertech; 9th September 2023 at 21:14.
I would have taken that scoreline with 15. Not Argentina best game but a good improvement from England.
Still not a red for me but I understand the reasoning, split second timing and just accidental collision of heads. Yellow, fair enough. Red seems harsh.
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