One of the issues is that the police and the courts don’t take car theft seriously, theft of cars to order iis becoming a huge thing, I’ve recently seen pictures of Porsche 911s with headlights stolen and an AMG GT with the whole front stolen at east midlands airportOriginally Posted by Franky Four Fingers
There was a big market in Eastern Bloc countries for RR as the checks were non existent, not sure if that’s still the case. The new models are still stolen to order and then container shipped to the Middle East and other spurious despots.
Lack of bandwidth the Law-justice has to be rationed or triaged.
Steady on, aren´t a lotta these Mid East places our allies and big investors in Blighty, high end property and strategic partners in the Freeport projects*, crucial to the next chapter of global Britain. Best not bite- besmirch the hands that feed.
*Though a controlling interest in lawless ports would certainly be a colossal boon to the stolen car global shipping business...hmmm.
Last edited by Passenger; 12th November 2023 at 12:03.
Horses mouth
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...become-problem
Theft incidents had become so prevalent that JLR was forced halt its own insurance offering last year, after partner Verex said it would no longer extend coverage.
The high rate of theft was having a knock-on effect on current model Range Rovers. Dan Adler, an investment specialist from north London, told Autocar in February his inbound Range Rover P440e Autobiography had pushed the cost of his multi-car premiums from £5000 to £11,000, forcing him to cancel his purchase.
Back in the day the D4s & RRS were getting robbed left right and centre, to combat this JLR brought out a technical bulletin which saw thousands of vehicles having their software updated. What they didn't tell the dealers was that they were essentially taking away the available slots which allowed additional keys to be programmed. So beforehand if a customer lost a key you could go in, delete the key which was not being seen by the keyless module (missing key) and then programme another new key to slot 3. A few months later customers started coming in after losing a key and we found out that we weren't able to add a new key.
£1000 plus later for a new key and keyless module and the customer was on their way. Paid for by JLR you say…oh no, customers footed the bill for this. Who got the brunt of the customers complaint…the dealers or JLR?
Just one very small example.
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 12th November 2023 at 14:29.
I had to change my phone number, some muppet in the production line would try to force a connector in the wrong way round, they would call me in the middle of the night demanding I went there to resolve my quality problem, I started billing them, they employ some real idiots
Sorry Adrian…what happened?
Can’t give details, other to say the muppets in Solihull and Halewood can’t plug two connectors in the right way round, and it happened a lot
This is something I have been quite heavily involved in around work.
There are two major issues in play.
The first is Russia. Luxury cars but, particularly luxury SUVs, have always been in huge demand there. Since the OEMs pulled out, both manufacture and network, Russians no longer have access to either new vehicles or, often, replacement parts. So a huge amount of the increase in thefts is driven by the demand of this market, with vehicles either shipped whole or stripped and shipped in parts.
The second issue is British insurers themselves. The cost of replacement LR/RR parts has gone up and up in recent years, and it's making the cost of repair from claims for those vehicles eye-watering. Consequently, many insurers have started looking to the aftermarket for the supply of some OEM LR/RR parts. And guess where those are increasingly coming from?
It's not only JLR affected by all this, but they are far more affected than anyone else. At a meeting I was at last Nov with the cops they said the estimate was 650 JLR vehicles being stolen a month.
What is it about Range Rovers that makes them so easy to steal compared to other brands? Some of the insurance premiums mentioned earlier in the thread are eye watering.
We got rid of our RR 6 months or so ago when it started to make some expensive sounding noises - we'd had it 5 years from new and in fairness had been faultless to that point. Quite a few friends had them too and for various reasons have replaced them with other makes. One after chasing away a group of guys in balaclavas trying to relieve him of his one Sunday morning.
We're still on the waiting list for a new one (12 months and counting) and in that time they've advised us that the price will be going up about 9%.
Lovely cars but at £130k for a fairly modestly specced new one and no guarantee it'll still be on the drive when you wake up each morning, I think we'll probably pass.
According to this 90 a day are stolen in London alone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m0Y84qgzyc
The parts situation is horrible but it will be resolved and resolved very soon. In the long term the it will also make a positive difference to the retailers. The business has stood up publically and said it’s horrible and it is getting the highest level of attention and efforts!
To add more to this thread and with reference to the above.
We use 2 local dealers who supply all of our genuine parts, we spread the love between the 2 as sometimes one has something in stock whilst the other doesn't so we chop and change. Going back 6 months ago the delivery service we received from Land Rover was pretty good, if something was ordered on stock by 3pm or VOR by 5pm we would generally, as long as there was stock at factory, have the parts by midday the following day. That now has disappeared over the past 3-4 months. Now when ordering something we have no idea even if a part is available that the stock will be sent to the dealer. Total nightmare for us as we have no idea if it’s even worth keeping a customers car over.
The reasons for this….JLR had 3/4 distribution centres around the UK these now for some bizarre reason have been amalgamated in to one huge distribution centre in Mercia Park in the midlands. This has put the dealers in total meltdown. To give you some scale of the utter cock up JLR have made of this transition our local dealer a few days ago openly told me that their sales figures are down by approx 50k a month. They were promised this was always going to be a short term problem however the parts manager told me that JLR have just told them that it will likely continue for 6 more months. The parts guys don't know which way to turn, they don't know left from right, it has personally effected the whole team financially as none of them are making any bonus and the outlook is that from start to finish they will be likely be down more than £500k in lost sales revenue. Does JLR care?……do they F**K was his reply.
Times that by the amount of dealers in the UK and you can only begin to appreciate the scale of the problem and is easy to see why there are thousands of cars (new and old) up and down the UK broken down and waiting for parts.
JLR have also removed identifying labels on the parts they do receive at the dealers replacing them with barcodes……a dealer can now have a consignment come through (400 plus parts) and have literally no idea who's parts are who's…why you ask, because the barcode system they have replaced the labels with doesn't work. They still continue to send the parts with no labels but barcodes…it’s easy to see why so many mistakes are happening even when they do get the right parts.
And now to my situation…im currently replacing 2 blown turbos on a V8 diesel Range Rover Sport. Most of the parts are dealer sourced apart from the turbos which we purchase direct from the manufacture Borg Warner. Before removing the body which renders the ramp out of action for a week i made sure that all the parts were available….which they were. I had no choice to start the job as i would lose my workshop time and wouldn't be able to do it later as being fully booked up. Most of the parts come through apart from 2 gaskets, 6 down pipe bolts and one main turbo boost pipe for the NS turbo to intercooler. This allowed me to totally strip and rebuild the OS and strip the NS turbo but not being able to fully rebuild due to the pipe. This was 10 plus days ago, they told me the pipe would be 2 days, 2 days come still no part, was then told another few days, still no part, was told then early part of last week but still never turned up. Waited all last week, phoned up this Monday to be told that the part is now on Back order with no estimated delivery date. Ramp out of action, customer getting increasingly frustrated by the situation. I spent many hours this week to find out that there is literally no chance of getting one, my local dealer tried a dealer search…nothing. I tried normal aftermarket route and nothing. There is one in Poland but second hand and literally wont risk fitting it as if it came from a blown turbo could be filled with metal like the one i took off. My last contact with the dealer was yesterday, today i rang the owner to give her the good news and obviously she was rather upset.
The customer decided to ring around the dealers today to try and find one and low and behold the dealer is now telling her that one is available, however the part has to be ordered from the old distribution centre which is in Desford. In one day the part has become available but wont be here for 3-5 days supposedly. I expect the whole saga will happen again next week.
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 23rd November 2023 at 00:49.
JLR do care - I personally know the directors involved in resolving this and their teams and they care and are doing everything they can. It’s also got the attention of the CEO and whole board.
Its an incredibly complex situation with a lot of details that I cannot post on a public forum
Yes the move to Mercia has caused the majority of the issues alongside an already strained supply chain and of course its hurting most importantly customers but also the retailers and JLR
It will get fixed, it won’t take 6 months and it will result in a much better long term solution for customers, retailers and JLR
I know that doesn’t help the pain today
6 months comes from JLR as per the area meeting they had. His biggest worry is that currently all his customers are shifting towards aftermarket (allmakes and shitpart) and he strongly believes that some wont return. The damage thats being done currently is totally unbeleivable.
BTW JLR have never ever cared about anything.
You say it will result for long term solutions for customers, I'm a customer, before it wasn't broken, i ordered a part it came the next day. What will it improve, same day parts? I think not!
It may well improve things for JLR but it will make little different to the end user.
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 22nd November 2023 at 23:18.
It’s pretty obvious that not matter what I say you have a hatred towards JLR - that’s how you feel and clearly that’s valid
What I will say though is I have worked there and you have not. I have not worked in a retailer and you have albeit a while ago. I have however worked with a lot of people who have worked in retailers, some for decades and now work for JLR and all of them see things very differently when they see the world from inside the OEM.
I know JLR care and I know that the people are doing everything they can
The long term benefits of the move is not something I can get into in great detail but speed is just one metric - obvious other ones are cost, part availability and coverage particularly for older vehicles, worldwide distribution improvements (it’s not all about the U.K.!), sustainability improvements, workforce experience improvements, retailer facing ordering system improvements etc
Why bother with old vehicles…you cant compete end of. Time and time again the JLR guys come out to us and you cant get anywhere near the likes of buying directly from the maker of the part. I don't hate JLR, i hate what they've become in the nearly 30 years I've been working on them.
The saddest thing is, you dont even realise what you've done, thats the worrying thing.
Ive been there since Rover, BMW, Ford and TATA and its never been as bad…things normally get better not worse.
Edit…you're only interested in flogging your flagships…you’ve forgotten your roots. Thats the start and key to JLRs issues.
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 22nd November 2023 at 23:50.
Your last post is another example of opinion presented as fact despite not actually having any facts or experience of working for the business
I’ve shown a few times already actual publically available facts about where JLR is as a business rather than your opinion on its health
I’m going to stop posting on this thread as is clear no matter what I say it won’t land
Maybe we will meet some day as I said before as I’m sure we would both get something from it
I hope you get the parts for the customer car soon to get it back on the road
I don't pluck random stuff out the air…JLR have totally forgotten where they've come from. Tell me what I've got wrong
How many farmers buy your cars now?
How many farmers who used to buy your cars and a second car for the wife buy something else now?
What vehicles are most of the utility companies now using?
Not seen a motorway maintenance LR for a while?
Don’t see many Rozzers in LRs anymore.
Tell me im wrong!
A friend of mine in Solihull, his renewal this year is 7k! He paid just under 1k the previous year
Read about the current Inchcape flood fiasco. Nightmare for JLR customers
My renewal is up £200! **** all stolen diesel ****** Range Rovers. As overrated as a rolex
Last edited by Toshk; 23rd November 2023 at 22:39.
I think you ought to amend your above post
Apologies
Accepted
FFF is unquestionably right. Setting aside any reliability issues, Customers were getting their parts, your friends decide to restructure the supply chain, customers are no longer getting their parts in a timely manner. Platitudes don’t supply parts and customer loyalty erodes. Your friends have every right to be concerned- because they are overseeing a poorly executed business decision. It’s not personal to me but the above is a fact not an opinion don’t you think? Sorry but whatever happened to ‘The customer is always right’ - Franky is a customer which is the only fact you need to consider?
Why are the solicitors not just invoicing inchcape for the cars, if they don’t pay up raise a stat dec, that will concentrate their minds,
Good job they all have a decent wading depth.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
The Inchcape flood thing is interesting
When I insured dealerships I insured for all 'risks' Asset and Road Risks so property and stocks etc a costly expense at around 35-50k per annum but essential and covered 'vehicles in my care' i.e. customers cars just in case theft or indeed accident while tech driving etc.
When you get to the significant size of 'Inchcape' and other PLC's they will calculate number of dealerships (X) £ 50'000 so 50 x 50 = £ 2'500'000 work out burn rate say 10% for thefts, accidents, vandalism etc and say 'lets self insure' and save £ 2'250'000 in this instance they will still use insurance companies to cover Public Liability, employee liability and Directors liability but expense any regular claims against P&L as they occur
which is fine until you have what is commonly known as a 'BIGGY' I suspect this may be the case but I cannot be certain so just hypothesising
Or they are fully insured but with an exclusion = 'Act of God' you know flood and famine etc.
In that event they would try to push back to owners !
However to do so would mean there needs to be signs up everywhere clearly stating ..... 'Vehicles left at owners risk'
I thought the vehicles parked/left at owners own risk thing was bunkum?
It’s complex to be sure and many grey areas, but as I understand if it’s a Private Car park then the customer can make an informed decision if they are happy to accept the risk of parking their vehicle on said car park…
However the owner of the car park must by visible means inform you that as the vehicle owner you accept the risk and the land owner does not.
Similarly Tescos will not entertain claims for vehicle damage on their car parks but would have to entertain a claim if one of their own staff damaged a customer’s car with a trolley etc.
Flood 3 foot deep where do you go with that ? Act of God ? Dealerships fault ? Reasonably preventable ? Duty of care ?
Complete nightmare!
I wonder how the Luton airport claim is being handled ? Individually or firestarter (Prodigy).
Last edited by TKH; 24th November 2023 at 16:38.
Inchape as a JLR dealer aren’t having a great time this year. The dealership had only been open a couple of years.
https://www.lep.co.uk/news/fire-inve...ership-4225951
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Thank you.
Inchcape will be fine, I’m absolutely certain JLR will have their back on this one.
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BlackBelt Barrister had the view that the Luton thing could all end up at the (unironically) rangerovers insurers feet.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Surely owners have left their cars in the care of Inchcape rather than simply using their car park.
And therein lies what is going to be a very interesting exchange between all the parties.
I doubt they will have had any disclaimers up at time of incident to try to use that argument
so 'Act of God' will be the defence ?????
Well, you see, with it being in Derbyshire and not Yorkshire an act of God can be ruled out.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
I’d be interested to know what Inchape’s stance is with Derby City Council. The flood defences in the Chester Green area and Eastgate were upgraded a few years ago with flood barriers and slurry gates added. They’ve since added slurry gates at the bottom of bass rec where the inter ring road meets pride park way.
Both areas are North and then south of the city centre where the river Derwent is.
Since these alterations the old cattle market (council owned) where the dealership is and the A52 have flooded twice in the last five years. This area is west of the middle point of the two areas above by about 3/4 of a mile with the river then behind the dealership by about another 3/4 of a mile.
The new flood defences appear to have just pushed the problem across and down river.
It will do it again unless something is changed.
The dealership has still not been reopened. They were doing the floor when I drove past last night.
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Sunday Times...
https://archive.is/2wkDWEight of the ten most frequently stolen car models in the year to February were Range Rovers and Lexus SUVs .... [we] entered the details of a 2018 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 SD V8 into Confused.com with a 45-year-old married male owner living in north London, with five years’ no claims, and a 25-year driving history. Four quotes were offered: the cheapest was £36,928
Similar article in The Observer this morning - "Mark Weber, 52, from St Albans, saw his Audi A3 car insurance go from £403 last year to more than £1500 three months ago."
If it's bad for former F1 drivers, it's going to be bad for the rest of us. (Joke.)
Loads of RR's and Jag F-Pace's getting stolen in my part of Essex. 5 cars alone have gone on my road in the last year.
There is a quite visible change of car, although RR's are popular, people are moving in to Cayennes and XC90's.
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