Reply With QuoteHe really isn't. I'll give you dead balls and distribution, but he isn't the fastest, best at taking players on, best in the air, tactically aware or frankly any other objective measure for a right back.Originally Posted by cyrusir
if you are solely basing your 'analysis' on defending, then no he isnt the best in the world, but given he is better at everything else versus the players listed then that changes things somewhat.
you most love wan-bissaka
He really isn't. I'll give you dead balls and distribution, but he isn't the fastest, best at taking players on, best in the air, tactically aware or frankly any other objective measure for a right back.
He is a better passer, better assister, better goal scorer. The point of taking people on is to create chances, a bit like beckham he doesnt need to does he.
Trent is an average defender but is an outstanding winger and passer of the ball. His assist stats do blind people into his actual value as a right back.
So he isn't better at everything then! Beckham played in midfield, the debate was about who is the best right back and my £0.02 is that is not TAA, I can see why Southgate is trying to fit him in a different slot.
southgate isnt an elite manager to be fair, i bet pep would have him in his team.
and if he is such a terrible right back you'd assume that liverpools defensive stats must be awful over the past 5 or 6 years what with them effectively playing with only 3 defenders and all...
hilarious that we are having a debate about the short comings of one of the best players in one of the top 5 club teams in the world over the past 5 or 6 years who has won most major trophies in the game.
Zero chance Pep would have him at right back ahead of Walker. I certainly didn't say he is a terrible player but happily jumped in as it is hilarious you saying TAA is better than the others someone mentioned at everything else. I'd credit Salah and especially Mane for your success, with VVD having a number of solid years at the back. It certainly isn't down to TAA defending
Your everything else and mine are different considering you picked 3 or 4 aspects of defending when i had already said he wasnt a better defender but carry on if it makes you feel like you proved a point.
Consiering Peps comments about walkers tactical flexibility and knowhow down the years im pretty certain he would have TAA in ahead of him.
VVD was getting slated up above and now he has single handedly run a defence for years?!?
TAA is outstanding going forwards, very average as a defender. How well that works very much depends on the team/system.
I imagine when Pep first arrived, he’d have slotted in to his system perfectly, how well a full back inverted was more important at that point.
Today, I don’t think he’d sign him as a full back if given the chance, his current system prioritises defensive attributes for the full backs (even playing natural cb’s there).
The problem I’ve found with some Liverpool fans, is they often confuse facts with opinions. They en masse rate TAA as the best in the world because they love him. Rightfully, he’s been superb.
But I don’t think he’s balanced enough as an all rounder to be considered the best in the world. The best attacking full back, probably.
Is he the guy you want to defending a narrow lead with Mbappe/Doku/Martinelli running at him? Definitely not.
This is a debate about now, not the past. VVD IMHO was an exceptional player for a number of years, when he was at the top of his game he gave you a platform to win the titles that really matter, latterly he has notably fallen off as has your success.
Pep is the first to say he got it wrong over Walker and could not have done more to keep him. Anyone independent in this debate like me would say they are certain he would take Walker over TAA at right back, frankly I'd take Trippier too in that position.
has anyone om this thread said he is the best defensive right back in the world? or even the best FB in the world?
i'm arguing against the nonsense chat here that he is useless and overrated which is just stupid.
Pep was slagging walker last year, he has had him for 6 or 7 seasons.
i wouldnt take walker over trent and thats being genuine (and i think walker is an excellent defender). I wouldnt take trippier as a first team player at all, i think he is at about the right level but he isnt a CL winning or league winning player.
Ah come on man
You've finished 4th 2nd 1st 3rd 2nd and 5th in the league in those years, barely top 5 in England never mind the world
Last edited by demonloop; 27th November 2023 at 16:46.
id argue your definition of barely,
and in the CL we have
17/18 - beaten finalist EPL 4th
18/19 - Winner EPL 2nd
19/20 - last 16 EPL 1st
20/21 - QF EPL 3rd
21/22 - beaten finalist ( the season we also lost the league by a point and won the other competitions we were in)
Yeah you are right, we have been shite. I have been mistaken.
interested to hear of the 5 teams better over that period, in fact there must be even more if we arent even top 5 in england.
I didn't say you have been sh1te
But City, RM, Bayern have been well clear, PSG win the league every year and lost a CL final, Juventus won 3 leagues in that period and 2x Coppa Italia,
Barcelona have dropped off in the CL, but won the league 3x times in the last 6, and 2x Copa del Ray
Inter have been comparable to Liverpool over the period
Chelsea have picked up a CL and last year aside had finishes of 5 3 4 4 3 in the league
Just my opinion though..
City and RM ill give you, the rest id argue all day long. I dont think its a stretch to say liverpool were one of the top 5 teams in Europe (and by extension the world) over that period. Especially given city have been the best imo (run close by madrid) and the rest havent performed as well in the CL and play in less competitive leagues.
I figured you might :-)
I'm a United fan, and I'd say if we have been top 20 in the world I'd be surprised
me too
touche, in my defence i was thinking EPL standard.
Didn’t Ivan say he was arguably the best right back in the world ?
I’m still trying to recall Pep ‘slagging ‘ Walker off . He made a personal plea to him to sign an extension at City when it looked like he was off to Bayern. That’s pretty much unheard of for our manager.
Nice to see Arsenal have won the Premier League Winners in November for the second successive year. Also good to know that Englands future can be saved if the new United wunderkind can be persuaded to switch allegiances . After one game !
In other news, an excellent article (again) by Martin Samuel in The Times about FFP. and its pitfalls . Also rails on about the Independant Commission that punished Everton being anything but.
Trippier has about 90 assists in about 550 games and about 200 of them have been in the championship against dross.
Trent has 79 in over 200 games less. He’s also scored double the amount.
You lot are absolutely laughable.
Trent also has 150 clean sheets to his name.
Does anyone want to actually put any type of argument forward for a better RB in world football than Trent ?
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Last edited by Ivan Drago; 27th November 2023 at 19:31.
Dani Carvajal
Kyle Walker
Joao Cancelo
Ben White
Kieran Trippier
Achraf Hakimi
All are far better defensively than Trent.
Now TAA has super passing and shooting qualities and so there could be a midfield role for him but as a right back he'd give me sleepless nights against the best wingers. Doku tormented him and there are better left wingers than Doku around so I'd fear for TAA against players like Vinicius, Martinelli, Coman, Sane, Mbappe, Leao etc.
trippiers output is far exaggerated, he scores very little and Trent assists much more prolifically. I don’t even know if he is a better defender , he isn’t in Trent’s class regardless.
- - - Updated - - -
I guess we will always wonder it’s not as if Liverpool got to a few European finals with him playing against those players ….
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/stor...n?platform=amp
Walker and Arnold have got similar stats from when Kyle signed for City.
Walker has actually played less games but won more .
His trophy count exceeds Arnold’s by a good number .
beat me to it.
z
if you have any actual reasoned analysis I’d love to hear it.
You could put a one legged ostrich in a red shirt with a liver bird on it & you’d still argue it was the best…
that’s what’s laughable
z
As a united fan I despise both, but walker is a far better player than TAA. Walker is the best right back in the world and it chokes me to say that. TAA is great going forward and can deliver a great ball, but he is average defensively, but what he can do with the ball makes up for it.
I actually think moving him to midfield will lessen what he brings to the team, he will be more predictable
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that’s what I thought , carry on.
Are we going to get a first, Wolves getting 2 PIGMOL apologies for incidents in the same game?
2 disgraceful penalty decisions
Thought 1st was wrong but acceptable as he definitely caught a bit of his foot so hard to change after the fact. Still wrong though.
Just seen 2nd one and that’s truly awful.
Clearly a dive with no intent to stay on feet with no clear contact?
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Thing is VAR is supposed to correct clear and obvious errors. So the 1st one was soft but perhaps didn't meet the clear and obvious threshold to overturn.
But to then say the decision by the referee not to award the 2nd pen was a clear and obvious error is mind boggling.
What are you on about ?????
Walker only has 50 assists in his whole career - 582 games.
Trent has 79 in 302 games !!!!!
Walkers scored 12 goals in 582 games, Trent has scored 21.
Extrapolate Trent’s figures over 582 games and see what the numbers are matey.
Similar stats from when Walker signed for City ????
Walker has 18 assists since 2017.
Trent got 16 in one season !!!!
Absolute crazy bunch of chaps in this thread.
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when people are saying they would have trippier over him you know it’s just trolling .
Don’t get so worked up you mentallist .
I meant they had played similar numbers of games since Walker signed for City .
I don’t need to extrapolate anything .
Kyle Walker has been more successful in that period .
What you meant ?
You said and I quote “ they have similar stats from when Kyle signed for city”
They don’t have similar stats at all, Trent stats are by far superior. They’re not even in the same stratosphere stats wise.
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Man City have been more successful as a team, Trent has been more productive as a player, your point wasn’t well made.
Stats, stats and more stats. So Trent looks better than Walker on paper. Problem is, the game isn't played on paper. Across the last five years, and still now, 9 out of ten football fans pick Walker over Trent for club and country. Walker's just better, simple as. Stats show that, since the start of last season, only Haaland and Kane have scored more EPL goals than Callum Wilson. That sounds pretty impressive. He's also scored 45 goals for Newcastle which again sounds very impressive. Do Newcastle fans rate Wilson? No. Is he an elite striker? No. He's got a terrible touch and misses too many chances.
So like Lee said earlier, I prefer to judge players on what I see during games and seasons than what's on a spreadsheet.
Yes, agreed .
But what I clumsily tried to say was that Walker and Arnold have played a similar number of games for their clubs in the period mentioned. That’s the only stat that I care about . I don’t care that someone has more clearances with their left foot on a Thursday night v a team in blue and yellow stripes in East Anglia. It’s fluff , and people fall for it like it actually counts.
So Walker and Arnold have made similar numbers of appearances for their current clubs .
Walker was on the team with more wins in fewer games and has a good deal of trophies more than the Liverpool man to show for it. I’d say that’s the metric to judge the players on .
I could also mention the stat from Saturday that Arnold was dribbled past 7 times in the game . A record in the Premier League . Not bad for the best RB in the world .
except we are looking at Trent across 5 years, also you can’t compare the scrutiny most other players get versus what he gets when he makes a mistake. Maybe Liverpool fans are biased to how good he is but that’s nothing to the anti Trent bias most of which is not based on any actual reality.
anyway I wouldn’t swap him.
tell you what, he would be a much more important player for city than walker would be in the Liverpool team.
and are you sure about that Wilson stat?? Salah has more goals than him since the start of last season for one.
Trent realised early he was going to do sweet fa and just let him off where was doku when he was strolling in to your box to lash it past Brazil’s no 2?
also you missed this season off the end it’s not an all time record or anything.
most of the time he is shepherding him where he wants him to go as you can see when doku checks back
https://twitter.com/Hennes_4/status/1728541660194156883
Last edited by cyrusir; 28th November 2023 at 08:07.
Trent turned 25 one month ago and hasn’t even hit his prime yet.
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Interesting stat about TAA - his grandmother used to date Sir Alex Ferguson. Also he's pretty good at playing chess by all accounts.
Maguire: Hold my horlicks.
Newcastle fans
What’s the feeling surrounding Gordon these days ?
A mate of mine was fuming when he was transferred but absolutely loves him now .
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