Was chatting to someone from Wales on the plane last week & she was not a fan, especially with the hilly parts where you’re hunting between gears all the time if in traffic.
Ridiculous decision, Bradford on Avon has 20mph through the town centre, was their yesterday and it’s just painful.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It's appalling, and honestly causing more problems than before. I've seen people who would normally speed 40 in a 30 now just do 40 in a 20. Meanwhile I've seen people do 20 in 60 zones and saw one chap get pulled over by an ambulance for a word.
The feeling of anxiety is palpable and I spend more time looking at the speedo than the road.
The road I live on is still 20 in one direction and 30 in the other if you follow the signs, and the paint they used to spray over many the 30 signs is fading away and some modern cars with camera are apparently getting confused. WTAF!
It's like the wild west.
I recently built an ebike for my daily commute and can now go comfortably over 20 with no insurance, tax, petrol and general consequence to worry about (unless I crash) so stuff the rules!
So you are riding a motorcycle with no tax, insurance or mot….Originally Posted by pete-r
I'm not in Traffic Police - but I'm pretty sure his E-bike aint a motorcycle.
If it can do 20mph it’s a motorcycle and subject to all the requirements as such.
https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules
Other kinds of electric bike
Any electric bike that does not meet the EAPC rules is classed as a motorcycle or moped and needs to be registered and taxed. You’ll need a driving licence to ride one and you must wear a crash helmet.
Ahah!
The statistical analysis was laughable.
They said the most injuries and deaths on the road network were in 30 zones and they became demonised. What they didn't mention was that the overwhelming percentage of roads were 30.
So... The next set of results will now show that almost every injury or death on Welsh roads will be in a 20 zone. So what do we do about that? Do we go down to 15, 10, 5?
The ONS have already distanced themselves from the reporting.
I would be happy for cars to be banned from around schools or whatever during certain times, but this decision was stunted and made by nanny state dictators who knew less than they think.
I was in Cardiff this year it was so bad with the 20mph limit,frustration,un justified car restrictions (I have a blue badge even the council couldnt tell me where I could park) add on the low speed/painfull motorways to get their I decided I will not return to that area.
Protesting farmers told me how it was effecting them in the pocket.
I live near a school I drive less than 20 at most times,I do not stop for kids who are waiting cross the road(though I go even slower).
Why?
Its simple,its the parents picking them up who are speeding and/or on the phone.
I have stopped before and kids have started crossing, many times parents have overtaken me as they are rushing for their kids.
I realised when an adult stops it implies to the child its safe to cross.
When walking in the area ive nearly been run over a few times by speeding parents (I include driving at 20 in a 20 when its not safe),its a 20mph but it could be 5mph or 30mph.
It wouldnt be any safer either way with parents like this,the school knows but cant act I expect its all schools the same.
I expect these (holier than though types we have on here) are the same people banging on about 20mph zones,I drive to the conditions and especially for childrens safety.
The motor can't do 20 on its own, but I can cycle on a flat at 20+ without the battery even fitted so with assistance it's a breeze to keep going 😄
If the motor is limited to 15.5 you will be fine.
The fact you said you’d built it yourself and this sign off… made me think you’d got a unrestricted ebike.
I was coming through Froncysyllte (try saying it). A small village on the A5 just outside Llangollen. As I was driving through at 20 mph, a Lycra clad chap on a racing bike easily overtook me and disappeared into the distance. Oh how I smiled😡😡
In theory the motor cuts off when you reach 15.5mph so any speed above is just on you, no assistance whatsoever.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I believe Montello is correct when it comes to the inbuilt capabilities...
...but of course you are too if Pete-r goes faster under his own speed.the maximum speed of the bike Its electric motor: must have a maximum power output of 250 watts should not be able to propel the bike when it's travelling more than 15.5mph
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I believe he means an e-bike, a bicycle with electric pedal assist, which should be limited to cut off pedal
assist at 15.5mph/25kmh.
Last edited by robcuk; 18th December 2023 at 15:01.
the yokels will prb sort this out, everytime i visit my sister in south wales most of the speed cameras have a tyre hung on them and are set on fire , my sister says they have already started spraying over the 20mph signs.
I inferred from this statement that the pedal assist would not cut out from 15.5mph, the "stuff the rules" bit giving the impression that this new home built ebike would now allow the higher than 20mph ...
If he is simply cycling over 20mph then of course no problem ... apart from the problem of breaking the speed limit ... which only applies to motor vehicals.
Last edited by Montello; 18th December 2023 at 16:32.
We were in a pilot so we thought it would be easier for us to get used too. Wrong , they have messed with the signage in Flintshire so much. Since Sept 17th every 30 was reduced to 20 mph overnight.
Then over the last three months some 20’s are 30’s some 20’s are 40’s !!. And since 20 is the default speed in built up areas there are NO small repeater signs like there were in previous 30’s. So if anyone is unsure ( and lots of people are unsure) then their speed drifts down to 24/25 even in 40’s.
Its chaos, a recent significant opinion poll showed the number of people against the new 20 mph had grown from 60 to 70% over the last three months eg since adoption.
Wales the only place you can be done for kerb crawling and speeding at the same time :)
Last edited by higham5; 16th December 2023 at 17:24.
I am not directly affected so have it easy but a couple of questions to those who are affected and hate it:
1) considering that hitting a pedestrian at 20mph is less lethal than at 30, and assuming the numbers remain identical, how many saved lives would it take for you to accept it was a good idea in the first place
2) most reasonably recent cars have a "LIM" function associated with the cruise control. This function allows you to set a maximum speed* and saves you from watching your speedometer all the time. Why not use it?
*Doesn't work if driving downward as it deactivates the throttle, no action on the brakes.
As a side note, many town centres in France are limited to 30 km/h and it goes quite smoothly with no specific butt pain.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
10mph is even less lethal, where do you draw the line? Green cross code man clearly needs a comeback on television, and some pedestrian accountability. GCC Man existed before the brainless walked looking at their phones with headphones in, oblivious to surroundings but yet we pander to the lowest common denominator as per usual.
LIM isn’t as common as it should be where cruise control is fitted. It should be a function wherever CC is present, I personally much prefer it CC as can lift off to decrease my speed vs the CC feeling of relentless progression. I can then keep control of my speeding via manage my braking distance to the car in front by lifting off (motorways, not 20 or 30mph)
Need to check if LIM does actually work at 20mph, as I know CC won’t, so not sure if it’s a connected technology whether the limit function does either. Tomorrow’s experiment sorted then!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I'd suggest the lowest common denominator are those that won't stick to the speed limit...
Aggressive driving and lack of patience by drivers has created a very dangerous place for cyclists, pedestrians and children.
I think 20 in residential areas a very good idea. However, I also understand that those thickos that won't and don't abide by speed limits will carry on being a danger to others
Like parents taking kids to school the very ones who should be careful.
Cyclist have made many urban areas dangerous on the pavements etc.etc.in many towns
It has been that way in London for quite some time now and is irritating but one gets used to it, although 2 years back , almost to the day , I was snapped doing 24 m.p.h, and penalised, so, the speed limiter on the car now sees some use.
Neither aggressive driving or patience is speed related though. You can achieve both at 20mph.
If a cyclist can go 15mph I’d rather be able to use 30mph to safely pass vs only a 5mph window at 20mph to minimise the danger time of the manoeuvre.
Typical entitled driver response.
There are plenty of brainless drivers on the road too who'll make mistakes at pedestrian crossings, etc.
Isn’t the issue here more the confusion as to what the limit actually is, due to the broad, under-funded and poorly thought out nature of its implementation, rather than the “lower speed is safer” initiative?
I’d have thought a ten-year project to slowly roll out properly signed, well-targeted 20mph zones would more effectively bring people with it.
Anyway, what’s all this “my car won’t do twenty” crap about? Seriously?
I would have been struggling to get a speeding ticket in this one.
I was having to pull over to let faster traffic overtake - in a 30mph zone!
I had it in part-exchange; it lasted three days. I went to one lunchtime car club meeting and as soon as I returned placed an advert to sell it.
The best part - it was marketed in the 1930s as the "Standard Flying 9"!
Maye thay can be 'chipped'?
Exactly this. It would have been much clearer if they had simply said every road is 20 unless it's an A, B or M road, rather than sections varying every 500 metres.
I tried setting my cruise control at 20mph (its in England as well, out of towns well away from pedestrians in a lot of places) you cant do it.
Everyone is so unsure they are concertining and going down to 10mph or slower,so even leaving a big gap you end up braking.
Its far less safe when you arent looking out for danger just constantly looking at your speedo and its causing anxiety.
Signs are not clear and there is no logic to it.
In a built up area,school or Hospital area fine.
This is just stupidity to match all the other stupid things the idiots have done.
Even more of the 20 signs will get sprayed with black paint then, tons of them have already been vandalised in rural areas
This is one of the problems when folk say 30 one way 20 mph the other. Councils in Flintshire either removed 30’s , put black shrink wrap around them or sprayed them matt black. Folk are spraying the 20’s matt black so they cant be seen. However sat navs ( unless dynamically updated) say its a 30mph.
We will get used to it, it will become the new normal , but….a lot of folk are going to be getting NIP’s and appealing them for some time to come.
Here as well, 30km/h is the norm in city and town centers. I kind of like it, in real life the speed people drive are probably closer to 40km/h, but speeds are definitely down from what they were in the past. Makes no real difference to journey times and it's somehow relaxing when driving.
It is not just in city centres its in rural areas with no pedestrians,open areas with wide roads and no footfall.
Like the 15 min citys and LTNS etc.its ego driven, undemocratic, nonsense.
As I predicted, a complete mess. Also, just because something works elsewhere in Europe doesn’t automatically mean it’s right here. Different cultures, different legacy issues and different behaviours.
Wales aside, try driving through London in first gear and show me how it’s a good thing.
Add to this that in most of the UK drivers are concentrating on the 20 to 30 metres in front of their vehicles trying to avoid potholes rather than looking far further ahead. The logical extension of arguing that 20mph is less lethal than 30mph leads you to arguing that at 0mph nobody dies. However, it's just not practical.
1) undemocratic? It isn't as you say wide roads in open areas: it is specifically to roads whose max speed was already restricted to 30 mph if I understood correctly. It was also voted by the Senedd Cymru so whilst it may not agree with your opinions, that doesn't make it undemocratic.
2) nonsense? It is estimated that 6 to 10 lives would be saved and 1200 to 2000 casualties avoided each year. The families of those people may disagree with you here again.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Some roads in England have gone from 60 down to 20.
60 to 40 to 30 to 20.
Meanwhile pot holes have been redesignated something like twice the old depth,dangerous in a car lethal on 2 wheels.
Cars are driving on the crown of the roads around the Claydons etc. its so bad,I nearly got killed last year.
Statistics have been skewed to fit the narrative of those who are fit and can cycle and walk.
Bikes have become a menace on the pavements and hurtling through pedestrian areas.
Meanwhile in remote areas where there are no pedestrians we are driving at 20mph.
This is the prelude to removing all cars and personal freedoms.
I'd be interested to know how you could drive safely through Bradford on Avon at a speed greater than 20? It's all blind bends, hills and hidden side roads. Plus, every time I've been there it's been chocka anyway so the speed was more like 10.
I'm all for 20 in built up areas like Bradford on Avon, but the Wales ruling seems like sledgehammer-to-crack-a-nut legislation.
Plus, there are built up areas with huge wide roads and foot bridges that don't need to be 20. That really is painful.
I managed for 10 years after passing my test at 17 without hitting anything or anyone.
It is only 20 in the centre, and despite yokels not able to understand roundabouts or box junctions (that have not been on place for years), remain the major challenge.
Blind humpback bridges create their own speed limits and amusingly both of these remain at 30mph which makes a farce of the 20 mph clear sighted areas.
You might well be a fantastic driver (isn’t everyone when asked?) but times have changed and roads are busier now. Speed limits are the maximum permitted speed, not the speed you should drive at so your bridge analogy doesn’t work. I wouldn’t hit a blind hump bridge at 30 just in case some idiot coming the other way decided 30 was too slow.
Speed limits are not the issue, people not sticking to them is.
I remain unconvinced that other than in the vicinity of schools and hospitals that it's a worthwhile measure except for the revenue potential.
Last edited by Chris_in_the_UK; 16th December 2023 at 23:46.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I genuinely don’t believe I could drive at 20 mph for any distance
Give up, if not then you should not be driving!
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Aye, sheephylis does have a tendancy to send people mental
Always smile when anyone types this on a forum, as you know you have found that special person.
From one special to another … drive carefully
My Lexus is an auto and doesn't like running at 20, it seems to be constantly changing. Plus the cruise and limiter light only work at 30+.
If I put it in sport it'll drop a gear and that helps with the former, though that means when I drive I use more fuel and produce more pollution.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
