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Thread: Daytona movement help!

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  1. #1
    Quote Originally Posted by Jocke View Post
    That laser logo.

    Just a bad fake, super clone. Hahahaha.
    So Jocke, having never handled a fake, super fake etc, il give you an explanation of why I thought the case and dial where ok but that the movement was bad. (I know now the whole watch is a fake).
    The weight of the watch was spot on. I used to own an M serial black dial Daytona and the weight was pretty much correct.
    The engraved rehault was spot on in terms of the crown bang on at 12 and the x finishing at 3pm and 9pm. I’ve never known a fake to get the engraving spot on.
    The laser etching although photographed above wasn’t easy to see like some fakes. You had to shine a torch onto it and angle the watch to see it…like a real watch.
    The case back markings seemed pretty legit…
    The lume was green and appeared to match the Rolex lume…
    The dial writing and font appeared to be legit, no glaring errors or quality issues
    Granted the date code of DE threw me, that’s for a 2001 year I believe.
    Bracelet off and the model number was at 6 o’clock (or 12 o’clock) whichever one, it was there. Also the serial number was at 6 or 12.
    So from my limited (obviously) cursory glances, I was almost fooled into thinking the watch was ok with a fake movement. Now I’ve reflected, why in hell would it have a fake movement? Obviously the whole watch was fake 😂.
    I suppose what I would take away from this is that after over 10 years of buying Rolex, every days a school day and I would still say, I think this watch would be classed as a super clone!

  2. #2
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeti View Post
    So Jocke, having never handled a fake, super fake etc, il give you an explanation of why I thought the case and dial where ok but that the movement was bad. (I know now the whole watch is a fake).
    The weight of the watch was spot on. I used to own an M serial black dial Daytona and the weight was pretty much correct.
    The engraved rehault was spot on in terms of the crown bang on at 12 and the x finishing at 3pm and 9pm. I’ve never known a fake to get the engraving spot on.
    The laser etching although photographed above wasn’t easy to see like some fakes. You had to shine a torch onto it and angle the watch to see it…like a real watch.
    The case back markings seemed pretty legit…
    The lume was green and appeared to match the Rolex lume…
    The dial writing and font appeared to be legit, no glaring errors or quality issues
    Granted the date code of DE threw me, that’s for a 2001 year I believe.
    Bracelet off and the model number was at 6 o’clock (or 12 o’clock) whichever one, it was there. Also the serial number was at 6 or 12.
    So from my limited (obviously) cursory glances, I was almost fooled into thinking the watch was ok with a fake movement. Now I’ve reflected, why in hell would it have a fake movement? Obviously the whole watch was fake .
    I suppose what I would take away from this is that after over 10 years of buying Rolex, every days a school day and I would still say, I think this watch would be classed as a super clone!

    What is the differance between a Super Clone and a Fake?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    What is the differance between a Super Clone and a Fake?
    I suppose you can get a “fake” on the beach in Spain for £10 with the resulting quality or you can pay £1k for a “super clone” which is a high end fake.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Grand Master
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    The weight of steel fakes these days are similar enough to the weight of genuine watches to be un-noticeable in hand, so it's not a reliable way to tell.
    PM fakes are another story.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    The weight of steel fakes these days are similar enough to the weight of genuine watches to be un-noticeable in hand, so it's not a reliable way to tell.
    PM fakes are another story.
    Now a days they make PM fakes with correct weights.

  6. #6
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Now a days they make PM fakes with correct weights.
    Supers yes, Turkish specials, no.

  7. #7
    My biggest concern here would be that the friend was happy to pass off his fake watch as real. That would be a big red flag for me.

  8. #8
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    What is the differance between a Super Clone and a Fake?
    Caitlin Jenner Vs Thailand

  9. #9
    Grand Master Daddelvirks's Avatar
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    At least it's better than the early 'Monarch Polfy SA; Gelena Shitinerand Stainless Steel 12600' versions

    One for the bin I guess.
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  10. #10
    The fact he let you take the back off his 20k watch might suggest he knew it wasn't real ?

  11. #11
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    What is the differance between a Super Clone and a Fake?
    I've not come across the "Super Clone" name before.

    When I started using the name "Super-Fake" some years ago, writing for or lecturing the jeweller / valuer / pawnbroker / law enforcement audiences, my definition for this was a fake whose movement (and case-back interior, if relevant) were also copied to a high level, such that the watch was intended to pass more sophisticated private buyers and even the weaker trade buyers.

    A normal fake might appear convincing externally but should be obvious to most when opened.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Yeti View Post
    So Jocke, having never handled a fake, super fake etc, il give you an explanation of why I thought the case and dial where ok but that the movement was bad. (I know now the whole watch is a fake).
    The weight of the watch was spot on. I used to own an M serial black dial Daytona and the weight was pretty much correct.
    The engraved rehault was spot on in terms of the crown bang on at 12 and the x finishing at 3pm and 9pm. I’ve never known a fake to get the engraving spot on.
    The laser etching although photographed above wasn’t easy to see like some fakes. You had to shine a torch onto it and angle the watch to see it…like a real watch.
    The case back markings seemed pretty legit…
    The lume was green and appeared to match the Rolex lume…
    The dial writing and font appeared to be legit, no glaring errors or quality issues
    Granted the date code of DE threw me, that’s for a 2001 year I believe.
    Bracelet off and the model number was at 6 o’clock (or 12 o’clock) whichever one, it was there. Also the serial number was at 6 or 12.
    So from my limited (obviously) cursory glances, I was almost fooled into thinking the watch was ok with a fake movement. Now I’ve reflected, why in hell would it have a fake movement? Obviously the whole watch was fake .
    I suppose what I would take away from this is that after over 10 years of buying Rolex, every days a school day and I would still say, I think this watch would be classed as a super clone!
    The reason I reacted was that a "super clone" cannot be revealed without opening it. Here we see a dial that has so many errors that a trained eye can immediately see that it is fake.
    The thickness of the letters is wrong, the red color is wrong, the appearance of the crown is wrong, the rings on the sub dial are wrong, the laser logo is wrong, the position/size of swiss made
    is wrong. This is enough for me, so calling this a super clone is also wrong, it's simply a bad copy.
    Last edited by Jocke; 29th January 2024 at 20:01.

  13. #13
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    I'd be interested to know what the OP's mate paid, although - I suspect it might have been an embarrasing amount.......................

  14. #14
    Grand Master
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    It would be interesting to know the full back- story, how and where he bought it, whether it worked OK initially, and how much he paid. Only way forward for this watch (apart from binning it) is to sort the movement out and get it running properly. If it was a genuine Valjoux movement that would be more feasible, but my limited experience of trying to sort out a Chinese clone was enough to put me off ever touching one again, you can’t get parts so you have to rely on genuine Valjoux parts fitting......some do some don’t!

    There’s also a small issue of finding someone to work on it, as I stated earlier any half- decent repairer won’t be interested. If this got fixed it could end up being sold to the next mug, that’s enough to put me off touching it.

    If you must have a Daytona, buy a real one. If you decide to buy a fake buy a good one.......not convinced such a thing exists!

  15. #15
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    If you must have a Daytona, buy a real one. If you decide to buy a fake buy a good one.......not convinced such a thing exists!
    Well, currently in the Caribbean and I held a couple of very convincing ones th other day in St Lucia - $250 - $1000.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  16. #16
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Well, currently in the Caribbean and I held a couple of very convincing ones th other day in St Lucia - $250 - $1000.
    Chris, I bow to your judgement........if you say they looked good I’m inclined to agree! The ones I’ve seen have always been fairly poor.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    I'd be interested to know what the OP's mate paid, although - I suspect it might have been an embarrasing amount.......................
    I think I was fooled into asking for my opinion. I’m confident he knew it was a fake all along.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jocke View Post
    The reason I reacted was that a "super clone" cannot be revealed without opening it. Here we see a dial that has so many errors that a trained eye can immediately see that it is fake.
    The thickness of the letters is wrong, the red color is wrong, the appearance of the crown is wrong, the rings on the sub dial are wrong, the laser logo is wrong, the position/size of swiss made
    is wrong. This is enough for me, so calling this a super clone is also wrong, it's simply a bad copy.
    As above, every days a school day!

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