Cyber truck

[stooo]

Maybe they just need some interesting or well made cars.

[Tooks]

Maybe they just need some interesting or well made cars.

This, really. People don’t need to worry about Ford, it’s not like they worry about us.

[Foxy100]

Ford will have the EVs coming. They also, apparently, don't intend to stop making ICE cars. Remember SUVs are more profitable than hatchbacks and saloons and it works two ways for the manufacturer: more money for them and the bulk is better for EV batteries to sit in the floor, plus SUVs are heavier so can have the beefed up suspension and so on to accommodate the extra weight of the batteries.

Thing is though, they only have this option. The whole EV market in the UK is subdued so they can't sell cars no one wants unless they price them so low they completely screw themselves. The UK government, as I said on the other thread about EVs, has made this deadline while not supporting the industry. We're in a sitution where we really could see cheap Chinese cars flooding the market and the mainstream manufactures we know disappearing or, in the case of Mercedes and co, going sharply upmarket so something like a 5 Series EV will cost you £100k.

What else can Ford do? If the local market says 50% of Ford cars sold in the UK must be EV by 2028 or whatever it is, they'll have to restrict sales of ICE and take a big hit, but a smaller hit than paying fines on each ICE car they'd sell over the limit if they didn't do something about it. That or I guess try to enter into some kind of agreement with a Chinese EV firm where the latter gets the use of Ford's dealer network in exchange for branding the cars Fords.

Of course it could just be posturing. Sort this out, Labour government, or think of the job cuts.

[Passenger]

Ford will have the EVs coming. They also, apparently, don't intend to stop making ICE cars. Remember SUVs are more profitable than hatchbacks and saloons and it works two ways for the manufacturer: more money for them and the bulk is better for EV batteries to sit in the floor, plus SUVs are heavier so can have the beefed up suspension and so on to accommodate the extra weight of the batteries.

Thing is though, they only have this option. The whole EV market in the UK is subdued so they can't sell cars no one wants unless they price them so low they completely screw themselves. The UK government, as I said on the other thread about EVs, has made this deadline while not supporting the industry. We're in a sitution where we really could see cheap Chinese cars flooding the market and the mainstream manufactures we know disappearing or, in the case of Mercedes and co, going sharply upmarket so something like a 5 Series EV will cost you £100k.

What else can Ford do? If the local market says 50% of Ford cars sold in the UK must be EV by 2028 or whatever it is, they'll have to restrict sales of ICE and take a big hit, but a smaller hit than paying fines on each ICE car they'd sell over the limit if they didn't do something about it. That or I guess try to enter into some kind of agreement with a Chinese EV firm where the latter gets the use of Ford's dealer network in exchange for branding the cars Fords.

Of course it could just be posturing. Sort this out, Labour government, or think of the job cuts.

I see the Chinese taking most, all of the EV market...don't they have a lock almost on the minerals, battery side plus cheap/ slave labour.

[Richie_101]

I see the Chinese taking most, all of the EV market...don't they have a lock almost on the minerals, battery side plus cheap/ slave labour.

I agree. I had no idea that the Chinese EV market was so large, around 200 manufacturers at present. This video of the Beijing Auto Show came across my YT timeline and even if you don't have the stamina for the whole thing (I didn't), the number and range of EV's available over there is incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSzEVLN4dRQ&t=5s

If even a third of the Chinese output makes it over here, I can't see how the established western brands will be able to compete. I think the only thing likely to keep them in the picture will be import tariffs.

PS. In reference to the previous post, Ford still sell a Mondeo in China (Hybrid I think), you can see it 15:30 into the video above.

[Longblackcoat]

I agree. I had no idea that the Chinese EV market was so large, around 200 manufacturers at present. This video of the Beijing Auto Show came across my YT timeline and even if you don't have the stamina for the whole thing (I didn't), the number and range of EV's available over there is incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSzEVLN4dRQ&t=5s

If even a third of the Chinese output makes it over here, I can't see how the established western brands will be able to compete. I think the only thing likely to keep them in the picture will be import tariffs.

PS. In reference to the previous post, Ford still sell a Mondeo in China (Hybrid I think), you can see it 15:30 into the video above.

I had a fair number of business trips to Shenzhen in 2016-18 and was amazed at how advanced the Chinese economy was with EVs. All of the public transport (buses & taxis) was EV ... way ahead of any Western city. Beijing's not quite at that level but it's getting there.

It's all driven by the fact that probably 20 years back the Chinese government realised that they'd never catch up with ICE manufacturing or (probably) hybrids. So they bet on BEV and now, two decades on, they're reaping the benefits and China produces 2/3 of the world's EVs. Honestly, we do ourselves no favours if we try to denigrate them by saying they're subsidised by the government/slave labour etc. The fact is, the best of the Chinese EVs (Volvo, for example) are exceptionally accomplished and you'd buy them anyway. Drive a BYD Seal (I have) and you'd really like it. The fact that it's £15-20k cheaper than its competition is a plus, obviously. Same with an MG4 - I drove one a few weeks back and was struck at how good it was. Then you compare it to (say) an ID3 and you can't see where all the additional money goes.

The Chinese EVs seem to me to be a lot like Japanese cars of the 80s - dependable, a bit dull, sold on the basis of a long warranty and utter dependability. When China has its Lexus moment we'd better be prepared, because they really will dominate the world if given half a chance. And the only way to stop that is to make a better product.

[Foxy100]

The Chinese EVs seem to me to be a lot like Japanese cars of the 80s - dependable, a bit dull, sold on the basis of a long warranty and utter dependability. When China has its Lexus moment we'd better be prepared, because they really will dominate the world if given half a chance. And the only way to stop that is to make a better product.

Brand snobbery will win. Although by then there should have been enough European and American brands gone bust for the Chinese to buy. Or clunky going concerns like Lotus. I'm surprised Saab hasn't been bought up yet, there's surely some fun to be had there. Imagine what a Chinese company with some proper clout could do with the Jaguar brand in the same way Volvo has been reinvented as a premium SUV brand.

[Foxy100]

If even a third of the Chinese output makes it over here, I can't see how the established western brands will be able to compete. I think the only thing likely to keep them in the picture will be import tariffs.

As I said on the other thread, the German chancellor went to China last month and made it clear there wouldn't be import tariffs. A year or so ago Mercedes announced they would be dropping the models from the cheaper end of the market and going firmly premium. They - like BMW and Audi - sell a decent chunk of cars to China and would be screwed if that market suddenly disappeared.

The Chinese market demands cheap EV SUVs that are large and full of tech. The average Chinese customer rode a bike 20 years ago and has missed out on generations of car ownership. How we test and evaluate cars in Europe is irrelevant to China, a smaller number of massive manufacturers will have the non-premium (see Mercedes, BMW and Audi, for example) and non-luxury market and will flood the market with cars that are rubbish to drive. Not that I've yet driven an SUV that was good to drive but you understand my point. In the non-premium end of the market it's no longer about what we want, it's about which Chinese SUV will be in our price range.

We've gone from dependency on the Middle East and their petrol reserves to dependency on the Chinese and their rather cunning mineral deals and engineering projects of the last 20 years in Africa and South America.