Reply With QuotePosted this on the other thread.
SQ321 currently in the news had a significant drop in height between 0807 and 0809 hrs UTC.
Very sad there was a loss of life.
Departed yesterday, encountered severe turbulence over the Bay of Bengal, one passenger died on board, diverted to Bangkok and another has sadly died in hospital.
Pics show the damage on board, plus a video of the incident where the plane apparently dropped 6000 feet in seconds.
Scary stuff and a reminder to keep your seatbelt fastened at all times and return to seat when requested to by the aircrew.
https://twitter.com/BanditOnYour6/st...8CZFP2p7g&s=19
https://twitter.com/plcdelmedionews/...bwZsNgqgQ&s=19
Last edited by ryanb741; 21st May 2024 at 13:34.
Posted this on the other thread.
SQ321 currently in the news had a significant drop in height between 0807 and 0809 hrs UTC.
Very sad there was a loss of life.
Whilst learning to fly in Florida many years ago I hit the roof in the C150 in turbulence.
Never understand why people want to remove their seatbelt.
Total ignorance or understanding of the possible injuries if removed.Perhaps it should be made policy to always keep fastened at all times,but I guess the crew would get tired of asking over and over again.
Crossing the Atlantic can be 'interesting'. After a 'roller coaster ride' in 2010, I've decided to keep my seat belt on, even when the 'fasten seatbelts' lights go out.
Wouldn't really work as folk need to go to the toilet or move around on long haul.Originally Posted by P9CLY
Me too. But the fat bloke that bounces off the ceiling onto my head is a risk I cannot manage.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Of course the reports that the casualty hit the ceiling sound fairly unconvincing; that he fell heavily from mid-air to the floor or a seat corner would be more logical.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Heart attack apparently.
Not sure how my heart would survive with that drop in 3 minutes. That with my quick calculations is about 60m a second assuming a flat descent rate.
Hyperia at Thorpe Park is getting attention for 15s of airtime. My stomach struggles with that, let alone something like this. On a plane when your stomach goes on a slight drop, I have no context as to what level of altitude loss causes that, but sustained like that, Jesus.
Very sad for the families and their losses.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It wouldn't work one hundred percent true, but each individual passenger would only be on their feet or in the loo for a very small proportion of a long haul flight. In an event like its likely that no more than a handful would be 'untethered' at that exact time.
My belt is always on when seated, doesn’t get in the way & is not uncomfortable. I’d happily welcome it as a change.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Man dies of heart attack, sadly an everyday occurrence. More people die in road accidents and they don't make the news
In February on our way back from Bali we seemed to have higher then usual turbulence, and a few times the plane shuck quit violently. The Wife is worried now as we are flying London to Singapore in January. I always leave my seatbelt fastened whilst in my seat, it’s no hardship
Last edited by hilly10; 22nd May 2024 at 06:40.
Totally different climatic setup in January with NE monsoon, and cooler dryer air flow (rather than SW monsoon) prevailing over SE Asia, with little chance of exceptional thunderstorms as per the recent event in May.
So would most of us, can't see why people would object to something cheap, simple, unobtrusive, convenient and not uncomfortable that could save their lives. Oh hang on, remember masks?
Reads okay using an Allo-Allo Policeman’s accent…….
More than one casualty, yes the death was caused by a heart attack but, many injuries from people hitting the ceiling.
Seatbelts have been proven to save lives, less certain about a piece of cloth (which was what most people were wearing) across the face has.
So have masks.
Last edited by Ruggertech; 22nd May 2024 at 10:25.
Last flight I was on, everyone belted up (including stewards), plane taxied to edge of runway waiting for slot and some half-wit thought this was a good opportunity to go the loo.
Works for me,mine is fastened all the time seated.
Anything to do with a "vehicle" that flies makes it to the headlines!.
Can also apply to buses,if a car & unless you hit a bus or an aircraft crashes on your car it isnt worthy of reporting.
Probably because these airborne machines are still new and not proven to be safe yet!!.Hence the headline "Breaking News" aircraft had an issue with the wheels being stuck.......but no one was injured.
Last edited by P9CLY; 22nd May 2024 at 08:55.
agreed - always have the seatbelt on whenever in my seat - makes sense.
B
Climate change to blame apparently, according to the BBC views. Expected to see Jim Dale the 'expert' meteorologist on about it but was disappointed.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I dispute that.
When a plane "falls" it's mainly gravity that makes it fall. There may be a downdraft that accelerate it but I would think it's unlikely to create a "reverse gravity" effect such that passengers hit the ceiling violently; however, when this fall stops, the passengers who were possibly "floating" have acquired an important downwards speed (like after a few seconds of a free fall) and if they're not in contact with the floor they will hit it (or a seat) much harder than they would if they had just tripped in a level flight.
And even if my initial hypothesis was wrong, the effects of stopping the fall will always be much, much harsher than those experienced during the fall.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Not sure how long the plane flew after the event until powered down in Bangkok. The flight recorders over write after 2 hours unless manually tripped to secure the data. I am sure there’s some learnings there if preserved.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They last for 25 hours now
I think that is only just coming in now on brand new aircraft? Not being retrofitted to existing fleet as I understand it - in most jurisdictions.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The forces with clear air turbulence are severe just like with wind shear. When an aircraft drops suddenly you will instantly be into a negative G environment for a few seconds. If you’re unrestrained you’ll go up, it’s your head that hits the top of the cabin so a serious chance of injury. There are few deaths a year because of it, when you’re coming back down it’s your bottom, legs and other things that hit the floor or seats.
Even with helicopters we could get unrestrained kit hit the top of the cabin when we were being fairly aggressive in a military environment.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
I mean - what congenital idiot would travel in the back of a Mercedes going in excess of 90mph in city tunnels - without a seat belt ??
I understand the concept of being in zero G when the aircraft drops. I also understand that a down draught can “push” the aircraft down at a faster rate than gravity alone, thus creating the negative g.
In a military environment those manoeuvres will be deliberate and will push the physical limits, so I completely accept that a powered drop will create significant negative gs.
On a commercial flight the drop is not powered so the only thing that can create negative gs is the force of the downdraught, so whatever negative g will be limited. Yes I am sure people can hit their heads against the ceiling but the impact will be limited; however they are unlikely to remain in a vertical position once in zero G or less (there is a reason astronauts train for it) and therefore when the drop stops the impact will affect whatever hots first, and your head is as likely as your heads, especially as the volume of the cabin will not restrict your body movements.
I realise all this is theoretical and that there may be cases of genuine injuries sustained when a pax hit the ceiling. I just believe that the majority will be sustained when they hit the deck.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I think we know the answer to that one.
Cheers,
Neil.
Re the seat belt thing, I always leave mine on after a particularly horrific turbulence episode over the Atlantic where my arms and legs were flung around like a rag doll with belt just anchoring my waist.
Cheers,
Neil.
You can dispute it all you like but it is a fact that it happens as a downdraft can push the plane down at a far greater force than gravity.
https://www.quora.com/Airplanes-Why-...ing-Turbulence
And here is a video showing it happen
https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellthatsuc...dant_crashing/
Indeed, except of course for Trevor the bodyguard, who survived.
This all puts me right off the Virgin bar! Much safer to have the attendant bring me my drink, but do enjoy chats with randoms over a drink when the rest of the plane is asleep or watching films.
I can see the downdraft causing folks and items to hit the ceiling. What I am struggling with is 6000 altitude loss. Over a mile. Turbulence usually is updrafts and downdrafts. With lots of bumps but not really much altitude change?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I like to stay in my seat - don’t show that I’m pissed.
I know - being the pilot, I should display some professionalism, but…………..
Haha brilliant!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Craig1912 “And here is a video showing it happen”
She went into pray mode quite rapidly then didn’t she…
With her drink still dripping off her face !!
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Was there not a retired pilot on Auntie who indicated that the majority of the descent would have been the pilot reacting to the event by rapidly reducing altitude? I guess there are SOP's covering such situations and I note in the coverage the oxygen masks having been deployed. Perhaps that's what the book says to do?
I've done SQ321 a few times. It's a night flight and I would imagine those who can sleep on a plane were doing so. I echo others here who always wear their belt, unless I'm off to the loo to drain the red wine, or stretching my legs for couple of minutes.
It won't put me off using it next time we go out that way.
This is quite a good read on the flight https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/1...e=sendgrid.com
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
The 6000 foot descent was indeed probably a (logical) decision to find smoother air. Oxygen mask deployment was a result of objects hitting the panels. The rubber jungle can also appear on particularly heavy landings….
Dropping 6000 feet in turbulence is pretty unlikely (read very unlikely). I’ve been in some pretty nasty turbulence and not seen more than a 500 feet deviation, and that was being spat out of a 180knot jet stream (wind speed reduced from 180 to 80 in a matter of single-digit seconds).
If you look at the article I posted above it shows you the vertical devaluation and time stamps. Basically they went from level to 1000fpm updraft then back to 600fpm updraft back up to 1500fpm updraft straight into a 1500fpm downdraught back to 600fpm downdraught back to 1500fpm downdraught then back to normal. Over a time period of 1 minute 9 seconds. I’m surprised there’s not more puke in the pictures.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Thanks. The 1500 up immediately followed by the 1500 down will have been the most violent deviation in terms of G I suspect. Nevertheless, I expect the aircraft altitude did not vary hugely. Edited following reading, I note altitude deviation of 400 feet. The ADSB refresh rate of 3 secs on FR24 may not be sufficiently granular to allow proper analysis (the FDR will) but it is the rapid variations that cause the more violent bumps.
On a light-hearted note, positive G tends to suppress puking….
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by Pete D; 25th May 2024 at 17:39.
Haha. I know, having spent my early life strapped into a Gazelle we knew when to quit when we had someone in the back.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Proper little sports car of the rotary world. Tricky to fly nicely too…. I was fixed wing, but had a quick 90 mins with an Army mate in one of theirs.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Another incident - Doha to Dublin. Scary!
Turbulence on Doha-Dublin flight leaves 12 injured https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5117ev8n7xo
Yeah agreed it's more like 200ft in 5 seconds - That's enough for most people to discover a deity somehwere :-)
Posting Permissions
