Reply With QuoteThat's an interesting point. Is anyone aware of a watch that does this :?:
Just a thought, but wouldn't it be good if when you set the time, the seconds hand automatically aligned with the minute hand, so that they were in sync, ie. the minute hand represented a whole number when the seconds hand hit 60. I find you can only really get this right if setting on the hour, which isn't always convenient.
Lots of emphasis is placed on accuracy of the mechanism, but that's aesthetically buggered if the minutes hand is aligned to a whole number whilst the seconds hand is only three quarters of the way round.
I'm sure there are loads of technical reasons as why this is difficult, but it strikes me as a bit of an oversight.
Or is it just me ?
That's an interesting point. Is anyone aware of a watch that does this :?:
Or of course, it could just be you :DOriginally Posted by darrenw
Well that's obviously easy with a hacking movement... as to a non-hacking movement you can often "hold" the movement with it in the wind position.
If it bothers you greatly I guess you could just stick to digital watches ;)
I agree with the OP. It's a bit of a faff to have to wait until the seconds hand reaches 12 before pulling the crown out to hack. Then you have to wait for your reference clock to reach 0 seconds. Hardly the end of the world I know, but I've always wondered why there isn't a mechanism that always means that the minutes and seconds are linked.
But even with hacking, a slight jog of the hand when you push the crown back in knocks it off slightly.
I guess it is just me then, but strange the money spent on so called accuracy, chronometers, tourbillons et all, when the resultant display is more than likely slightly skewed.
Now steady on, that's fighting talk ! :)If it bothers you greatly I guess you could just stick to digital watches ;)
tee hee :twisted:
There are watches that have this "complication" - pull out the crown and the seconds hand hacks to zero. I do not know what it is called, and I do not recall who makes them (I think I saw it at least twice). And since I do not recall the name of the complication I cannot Google the name of the manufacturer(ers) for this discussion. Anyway, I do recall it was a very expensive complication, and I thought a very very cool, and I thought very necessary one to have... as soon as I could afford it. sigh. :|
Obviously this is an easy and cheap complication to have designed for quartz watches, and I don't know why it isn't done already. I was referring above to mechanical watches.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
That would be the 'whiplash precision index'. Lange und Söhne feature this complication - essentially when the crown is pulled out the second hand stops and 'whips' back to zero when the crown is pushed back in. Might be a video of it on the Lange website - it is fitted to the Lange 1 and the Saxonia.
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The centre seconds Unitas (as in Stowa FO and Guinand Serie 31) have the zeroing secs device when the crown is pulled out for hand-setting.
john
Every watch a story.
That is a puzzle, I had the L&S 1815 which is EXACTLY the same movement as the Saxonia and mine did not do that. :shock:That would be the 'whiplash precision index'. Lange und Söhne feature this complication - essentially when the crown is pulled out the second hand stops and 'whips' back to zero when the crown is pushed back in. Might be a video of it on the Lange website - it is fitted to the Lange 1 and the Saxonia.
That's a good way to chip a pallet stone.
You know, it might be just a little "naff" to try and synchronize a mechanical to the second when about three to four hours later it will be off.
The OP here is not about syncronising to the second as I'm sure we're all only too aware that mechanical watches are not that accurate, but the syncronisation of the seconds hand to the minutes hand.
Erm....its not rocket science...why not just wait until the seconds hand is at 60, and hack the watch to the minute...or, if you haven't got a minute to spare to set your watch, pull the crown out when the minute hand is in between the markers and hack when the second hand is at 30. I have never had a problem not knowing exactly what minute it is. It's not evn that difficult with a non-hacking watch like the speedmaster.
No watch I have ever owned accidentally jogs the minute hand when the crown is pushed back in after setting.
I think we are looking for problems that aren't actually there!
OK, it's just me then.
But, you wouldn't buy a watch where you had to set the hour and minutes hands separately.
And as for solving problems that don't actually exist, now that almost sums up most watch complications :)
No, it's not just you (see my earlier post).
I would say a about 10% of my vintage watches have this problem to one degree or another (and some not so vintage - I've got a several Poljot and Vostok watches when they were hyper-cheap a few years ago). I've learned to deal with it in various ways, most often by either pushing/tapping the crown in with the back of my thumb-nail, or using some other hard surface such as a table top and a quick tap rather than a "push" to set the crown. I've never quite figured out what the cause is, or perhaps it is different for different watches. If you've NEVER had this problem consider yourself lucky, or you must keep your collection in tip-top condition.
I thought it was the Lange chrono which had the feature but I am not well up to it.That is a puzzle, I had the L&S 1815 which is EXACTLY the same movement as the Saxonia and mine did not do that. :shock:
john
Every watch a story.
What do you do if the minute hand has a square tip?
The minute hand should not jump more than 0.050" when the crown is depressed. If Timex can do this with a pin lever destined for qualification under MIL-W-46374A, I don't see why anything else should have this problem.
Here's a link to a thread where I discuss the record 6113, which has a stop/reset seconds (shown at the bottom).
http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31399
Best wishes,
Bob
OK, the use of the word Fundamental was probably overstating it somewhat and this certainly doesn't keep me awake at night.What do you do if the minute hand has a square tip?
The minute hand should not jump more than 0.050" when the crown is depressed. If Timex can do this with a pin lever destined for qualification under MIL-W-46374A, I don't see why anything else should have this problem.
I've a number of watches I regularly rotate, so end up having to set the time pretty much every day. It's not a problem, as I enjoy that involvement, more an observation.
And many watches don't mark individual minutes, so it can be quite a faff. As I say, I don't mind, I just thought a possible area for design 'improvement' in the persuit of perfection.
The new panerai movements have a compilations where the seconds hand is zeroed when the crown is pulled, I am also aware of some one develping a new center seconds large calibre movement at the moment, but all of this is academic if the person setting it dose not set the min hand to bang on the min marker in the dial, which leads me to thinking about panerai dials, as they only have 5 min markers you have to wait untill a full 5 min to acuratly set the min hand, what a PITA! sort of makes the zeroing second hand wasted doesent it!
Thanks Andy, you're on my wavelength, but few seem to 'get it', or more likely, think it's a non issue !
I am an absolute sticler for setting the min hand as perfectly as i can, it anoys me so much if the seconds hand passes 60 and the min hand is not on the marker. But you know what is the worst tring to set the time on this!
Andy, that's because you're blinded by the reflections, I bet. ;)
Best wishes,
Bob
Bob you have a point i must fit an AR crystal to that one! :D
Although the wife has never noticed it does not have one!
Dirk Dornblüth have the "Quattro Arret" option. That means the secondhand is not hacking
but when the crown is pulled out so will it stop at next 15 second marker for calibration.
Then when you push in the crown it satrts again.
Jocke
Hi -
As far as I know, there is only one watchmaker who makes a movement that does the two things the OP wants: hacks and have the hands perfectly synchronized. By this I mean that the minutes and seconds hands (and hour hands, obviously) would always move in sync with each other. Most watches have this, obviously, for minutes and hours, but the seconds hand moves independently when setting the watch.
The watchmaker is Volker Vyskocil. His watches are extraordinarily idiosyncratic, as he isn't formally trained as a watchmaker, but is rather a micromechanic turned watchmaker. Very, very long waiting times for his watches and they are not cheap by any stretch of the imagination. But they do what the OP wants: keep the minute hands synchronized to the seconds hand.
JohnF
Thanks John, think I'll do a little research into him.
Nice to know that someone considered it enough of an issue to design a solution.
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