Rolex Vs. Panerai

[aTqZ1997]

I recently sold some of my GMT collections that I don't hardly wear and have been thinking about my next "less is more" approach :lol:

What do you all think about Panerai GMT (159 or 244) vs. Rolex GMT Master?

The main reason I picked the two is because of the size, 40mm. I can't wear anything above 40mm (my 41 Seamaster GMT is a stretch).

Panerai:
+ I actually would prefer the look of Panerai over the Rolex base on the shape of the case which makes it great on both strap and bracelet. I also think Panerai is not as "common" as the Rolex.
- However, I understand that Panerai's qaulity control may not be up to par with the Rolex or Omega??? Also, I am afraid that this brand might be a fad.

Rolex:
+ Proven over the years on quality, reputation, and resale value.
- I don't care about its look (too many look-a-like out there) and the Rolex brand doesn't seem to have the "exclusivity" appeal as it used to be.
- What goes up must come down right??? I would also like to think that may be Rolex is heading that way (saturated market) and perhaps Panerai could take over in the furture as the new King?

I would like to hear the forum opinion....

Cheers!

[mindbender]

Just over a month ago, I traded my Panerai 118 for a Rolex GMT Master II (116710). Now, the 118 is a 44mm, and i know you're talking about the 40mm GMTs, but I have had both Panerai and Rolex now. I also once had the Omega Seamaster GMT. If you're concerned about looks over function, then it's purely up to the individual. Some people will prefer Rolex over all other watches, while others will prefer the Panerai. If it's flexibility with bracelet/strap, then either one will work, as you can easily wear the Rolex with leather or NATO straps when you want, and while with the Panerai it's the bracelet that would be the sometimes choice. If you look at functionality, then since we're speaking about GMTs and not time only or chronographs, then you can't really compete with the Rolex. The Rolex GMT movement is the original, and works the way someone traveling would want it to work (many other threads discussing the merits of this). If you want to talk about longevity, maintenance, and long-term appeal, then Rolex almost has to be the answer. There are millions out there, and they have been proven to be solid for decades. There is a huge parts supply, and Rolex Service Centers on every continent except Antarctica.

[DeusIrae]

- What goes up must come down right??? I would also like to think that may be Rolex is heading that way (saturated market) and perhaps Panerai could take over in the furture [sic] as the new King?

Been said many a time about Rolex and their resale value. However, there may be minor market corrections from time to time but in the long term professional model Rolexes have proven to go in one direction only. Up.

[MarcJ]

For me....... Panerai all the way, I dont think they are a FAD........ a fad would not have lasted this long

I prefer the look and feel of them and it certainly feels more exclusive than a Rolex these days!

As far as resale goes, the 40mm are nice but less popular than the 44mm so may not hold its price quite as well, although if you find a decent preowned one you should be ok, especially if you do it before the 8% April price increase

I have small wrists but now when I wear a Rolex it feels small

Marc

[jimmerjammer]

man utd v acrington stanley :roll:

[Chris_in_the_UK]

TBH - now I do not see them as one-V-the other. having had plenty of each, they are like chalk and cheese. It really depends what floats your boat.

In reality (no offence) it is high on the daft question list to be posted on a watch forum :lol:

The answer is always highly opinionated regardless of where you post it and nobody should buy a watch based on other peoples opinion in my book.

[alexandr0s]

I don't own either, and in my current financial situation I don't really see that changing soon :lol: but if I was looking for one and resale value was a consideration, I would go for the Rolex no question. Plus it will be much easier to have serviced/repaired if you do decide to keep it in the long term

Alex

[Wazza]

I don't own either, and in my current financial situation I don't really see that changing soon :lol: but if I was looking for one and resale value was a consideration, I would go for the Rolex no question. Plus it will be much easier to have serviced/repaired if you do decide to keep it in the long term

Alex

I disagree with the resale arguement here. I bought a PAM00090 just over a year ago. The resale value now is far greater than what I paid for it brand new. Some of the Vintage Panerai's (I am talking early 1990's models) are worth £50k + now.

[Karl]

:shock: :?: your thinking of buying a watch you dont like???

Rolex:

- I don't care about its look (too many look-a-like

[jonny]

I would go for the Rolex !

Though i would consider the JLC master geographic (its 40mm) and kills both of them in terms of gmt-ness! :D

[jesper451]

Go for the one you like. I have owned both brands. Now I prefer Rolex as I think they are perfect for my wrist size. I don't think Panerai is a fad, they will be around. As for resell value I bought a Panerai in Italy and sold it two years later for three times what I paid so If you do your homework you can gain even some money on both these brands. But buy a 44 mm Panerai, a 40 mm Panerai isn't the real deal IMO.

[Argee1977]

I've had a few Rolex and i've had a few Panerai, i now have a Panerai and no Rolex, personally i feel that in terms of quality they're both as good as the other, hell in terms of quality i think Seiko are great, i never understand this whole quality thing when talking about Rolex, they make fantastic watches, but so does almost every other company.

Resale value, well that's easy, 40mm PAMs don't do too well compared to 44mm, Rolex will always do well, although again i feel that we're about to reach a pricing level where people just won't accept anymore, same with Panerai.

So in short, choose the one you like, i too felt 44mm was way too big for me, but in reality it fits just fine and feels great, the same can be said about the Rolexes, sometimes they feel small, sometimes they feel perfect.

[Daddelvirks]

Buy what you like, looks are important, and both do specialist watches.
I traded my sub no-date for a Base-Logo some time ago, and never regretted it.
But I like hand-winding (most) of my watches, so that was my reason, not if one is better than the other :)

Cheers,

Daddel.

[aTqZ1997]

What I meant was that I don't like the fact that there are many watches out there that look a like Rolexes....didn't mean to imply that I don't think it's a nice looking watch....relative to the Panerais, I like the look (and the "exclusivity" feel) of the Panerai better but just not sure if it would be a better investment than the Rolexes...

Hopefully this might steer the tread toward the direction I was looking for but I like these different perspectives all the same :)

:shock: :?: your thinking of buying a watch you dont like???

Rolex:

- I don't care about its look (too many look-a-like

[aTqZ1997]

Thanks Jonny! There are soooo many different watch models out there, especially if you consider out of production models as well, let alone today's offerings. This is what I was hoping to see as well....better alternative recommendations (perhaps;)

I would go for the Rolex !

Though i would consider the JLC master geographic (its 40mm) and kills both of them in terms of gmt-ness! :D

[r.e.c.]

For me....... Panerai all the way, I dont think they are a FAD........ a fad would not have lasted this long

I prefer the look and feel of them and it certainly feels more exclusive than a Rolex these days!

As far as resale goes, the 40mm are nice but less popular than the 44mm so may not hold its price quite as well, although if you find a decent preowned one you should be ok, especially if you do it before the 8% April price increase

I have small wrists but now when I wear a Rolex it feels small

Marc

Price increase? Even Panerai should stop dreaming in this economy. Most models can easily be found at 30% off retail as it is.

[Argee1977]

For me....... Panerai all the way, I dont think they are a FAD........ a fad would not have lasted this long

I prefer the look and feel of them and it certainly feels more exclusive than a Rolex these days!

As far as resale goes, the 40mm are nice but less popular than the 44mm so may not hold its price quite as well, although if you find a decent preowned one you should be ok, especially if you do it before the 8% April price increase

I have small wrists but now when I wear a Rolex it feels small

Marc

Price increase? Even Panerai should stop dreaming in this economy. Most models can easily be found at 30% off retail as it is.

Can you point me in the direction of the AD that gives 30% off Panerai, i've yet to see anyone offering anything resembling a decent discount?

As i said earlier, all watches are reaching a critical pricepoint, Rolexes aren't flying off the shelves either, everytime i go into my AD they still have their gold daytonas, bi-metal subs, daytonas, etc and even their steel subs, nothing is moving quickly anymore, especially with last months increases on the likes of Rolex.

[flugzeit]

Hi Vin,
For me there is not even a question about which watch to go for: The GMT Master II. It is one of my all time favorite watches.

I am skeptical about buying a watch starting from some kind of investment/value strategy. If preserving asset value is an issue, I would cast my net more widely than watches. For me, watches are personal and the financial considerations are often secondary, or at best become clouded, or alternatively they themselves cloud other important factors.

[hot66]

Ive just gone through the process of buying either a Rolex or a Panerai. Originally I was determined & focussed on getting a Panerai, but in the end I went for a GMT Master 1, which I love. They are both so different it really does come down to personal preference

[r.e.c.]

For me....... Panerai all the way, I dont think they are a FAD........ a fad would not have lasted this long

I prefer the look and feel of them and it certainly feels more exclusive than a Rolex these days!

As far as resale goes, the 40mm are nice but less popular than the 44mm so may not hold its price quite as well, although if you find a decent preowned one you should be ok, especially if you do it before the 8% April price increase

I have small wrists but now when I wear a Rolex it feels small

Marc

Price increase? Even Panerai should stop dreaming in this economy. Most models can easily be found at 30% off retail as it is.

Can you point me in the direction of the AD that gives 30% off Panerai, i've yet to see anyone offering anything resembling a decent discount?

As i said earlier, all watches are reaching a critical pricepoint, Rolexes aren't flying off the shelves either, everytime i go into my AD they still have their gold daytonas, bi-metal subs, daytonas, etc and even their steel subs, nothing is moving quickly anymore, especially with last months increases on the likes of Rolex.

Well, you may be right regarding an AD. I just can't imagine how Panerai could raise prices and "sell at that price" in this economy. I have two Pannies and one was procured through a dealer in EU and the other through an AD here in the US. I paid well under retail for my 88, but 100% retail for my 233 about February of last year--right before the first of two price hikes; and before the markets began to show their cracks. At that time there were no discounts period from any source--gray, AD, or whatever. Right now I'm sure you can find a face-to-face deal on a LNIB at 30% off almost any model--save for a few of the SEs. That's what I meant. Although who's gonna pay $16K for a 233 now at an AD??? BTW, you may want to post on Paneristi that you're looking for an AD (if they allow that) that offers good prices. Today I'm going to order my Speedmaster Pro from an AD at 33% discount by way of a reference at an Omega forum. Unfortunately, not everyone offers Eddie's prices and quality right up-front.

[andrew]

Well, you may be right regarding an AD. I just can't imagine how Panerai could raise prices and "sell at that price" in this economy. I have two Pannies and one was procured through a dealer in EU and the other through an AD here in the US.

That'll be why you mentioned the discount then :). As this is predominantly a UK forum, if your local dealer gives 30% Panerais it would be helpful to highlight where you are exactly. The luxury-bling market in the US is more highly geared than the UK; people spend more on stuff like this when times are good, and less when times are bad - which explains the deeper discounting of goods there now that economies everywhere have hit the wall*. A discount on a new Panerai at the lower end of the range (say, under £4k) is still very unlikely in the UK.

* You mention in the same post getting 33% off a new Speedmaster; QED. No dealer in the UK will ever offer this discount unless they're going out of business, or it's an overpriced LE that's been sitting in the shop since 2007, and sometimes not even then.

[Argee1977]

[quote=r.e.c.]

For me....... Panerai all the way, I dont think they are a FAD........ a fad would not have lasted this long

I prefer the look and feel of them and it certainly feels more exclusive than a Rolex these days!

As far as resale goes, the 40mm are nice but less popular than the 44mm so may not hold its price quite as well, although if you find a decent preowned one you should be ok, especially if you do it before the 8% April price increase

I have small wrists but now when I wear a Rolex it feels small

Marc

Price increase? Even Panerai should stop dreaming in this economy. Most models can easily be found at 30% off retail as it is.

Can you point me in the direction of the AD that gives 30% off Panerai, i've yet to see anyone offering anything resembling a decent discount?

As i said earlier, all watches are reaching a critical pricepoint, Rolexes aren't flying off the shelves either, everytime i go into my AD they still have their gold daytonas, bi-metal subs, daytonas, etc and even their steel subs, nothing is moving quickly anymore, especially with last months increases on the likes of Rolex.

Well, you may be right regarding an AD. I just can't imagine how Panerai could raise prices and "sell at that price" in this economy. I have two Pannies and one was procured through a dealer in EU and the other through an AD here in the US. I paid well under retail for my 88, but 100% retail for my 233 about February of last year--right before the first of two price hikes; and before the markets began to show their cracks. At that time there were no discounts period from any source--gray, AD, or whatever. Right now I'm sure you can find a face-to-face deal on a LNIB at 30% off almost any model--save for a few of the SEs. That's what I meant. Although who's gonna pay $16K for a 233 now at an AD??? BTW, you may want to post on Paneristi that you're looking for an AD (if they allow that) that offers good prices. Today I'm going to order my Speedmaster Pro from an AD at 33% discount by way of a reference at an Omega forum. Unfortunately, not everyone offers Eddie's prices and quality right up-front.[/quote:2c0av1of]


To be honest i'm not too bothered about getting another watch, it's not just Panerai that put me off with the price rises, it's Rolex and all the others, i was going to be getting a Submariner later this year, but with yet another price rise i just can't justify it anymore, i might leave it a year to see what happens with the prices, the ADs are all saying the prices won't come down, but i feel that the customers dictate the market, not the companies or ADs, if something isn't selling at a certain pricepoint then it has two options, stay at that price and not sell or get lowered to a pricepoint that gets a sale, i think Panerai, Rolex and ADs will learn this in the next 12 months.

[Argee1977]

Well, you may be right regarding an AD. I just can't imagine how Panerai could raise prices and "sell at that price" in this economy. I have two Pannies and one was procured through a dealer in EU and the other through an AD here in the US.

That'll be why you mentioned the discount then :). As this is predominantly a UK forum, if your local dealer gives 30% Panerais it would be helpful to highlight where you are exactly. The luxury-bling market in the US is more highly geared than the UK; people spend more on stuff like this when times are good, and less when times are bad - which explains the deeper discounting of goods there now that economies everywhere have hit the wall*. A discount on a new Panerai at the lower end of the range (say, under £4k) is still very unlikely in the UK.

* You mention in the same post getting 33% off a new Speedmaster; QED. No dealer in the UK will ever offer this discount unless they're going out of business, or it's an overpriced LE that's been sitting in the shop since 2007, and sometimes not even then.

You've also got to remember that in the US something like a 233 costs $14700, which equates to £10500, in the UK it's £7900 which works out at about $11000, so in effect we're saving 25% on US prices, well until Panerai increase the prices again next month :(

[flugzeit]

To be honest i'm not too bothered about getting another watch, it's not just Panerai that put me off with the price rises, it's Rolex and all the others, i was going to be getting a Submariner later this year, but with yet another price rise i just can't justify it anymore, i might leave it a year to see what happens with the prices, the ADs are all saying the prices won't come down, but i feel that the customers dictate the market, not the companies or ADs, if something isn't selling at a certain pricepoint then it has two options, stay at that price and not sell or get lowered to a pricepoint that gets a sale, i think Panerai, Rolex and ADs will learn this in the next 12 months.

Not many people around here say this kind of thing, but I think you are spot on. The next 12 months will be catastrophic as, in my view, the wider effects of the current financial climate have not yet hit us. The big brand name watches probably won't drop there prices, but the sales will drop sharply (bearing in mind a degree of price inelasticity for high end products).

[Wazza]

I think the weak pound against the Euro is a determining factor here

[stiglet]

Another vote for the Rolex here. I bought my GMT pepsi new in 1986 (£750) and if I'm honest it's still my favourite!

Your're onto a winner which ever you pick though!

Cheers JP

[r.e.c.]

Well, you may be right regarding an AD. I just can't imagine how Panerai could raise prices and "sell at that price" in this economy. I have two Pannies and one was procured through a dealer in EU and the other through an AD here in the US.

That'll be why you mentioned the discount then :). As this is predominantly a UK forum, if your local dealer gives 30% Panerais it would be helpful to highlight where you are exactly. The luxury-bling market in the US is more highly geared than the UK; people spend more on stuff like this when times are good, and less when times are bad - which explains the deeper discounting of goods there now that economies everywhere have hit the wall*. A discount on a new Panerai at the lower end of the range (say, under £4k) is still very unlikely in the UK.

* You mention in the same post getting 33% off a new Speedmaster; QED. No dealer in the UK will ever offer this discount unless they're going out of business, or it's an overpriced LE that's been sitting in the shop since 2007, and sometimes not even then.

You've also got to remember that in the US something like a 233 costs $14700, which equates to £10500, in the UK it's £7900 which works out at about $11000, so in effect we're saving 25% on US prices, well until Panerai increase the prices again next month :(

I thought you were kidding, but no the pound is indeed freakishly low. I don't understand it--since every week it seems our Presidents have been announcing yet another bailout of some sort of institution into the hundreds of billions. Maybe Panerai will only increase UK prices?

[DeusIrae]

To be honest i'm not too bothered about getting another watch, it's not just Panerai that put me off with the price rises, it's Rolex and all the others, i was going to be getting a Submariner later this year, but with yet another price rise i just can't justify it anymore, i might leave it a year to see what happens with the prices, the ADs are all saying the prices won't come down, but i feel that the customers dictate the market, not the companies or ADs, if something isn't selling at a certain pricepoint then it has two options, stay at that price and not sell or get lowered to a pricepoint that gets a sale, i think Panerai, Rolex and ADs will learn this in the next 12 months.

Not many people around here say this kind of thing, but I think you are spot on. The next 12 months will be catastrophic as, in my view, the wider effects of the current financial climate have not yet hit us. The big brand name watches probably won't drop there prices, but the sales will drop sharply (bearing in mind a degree of price inelasticity for high end products).

$10 says Rolex do not lower their prices. Never have.

[aTqZ1997]

Thanks for all of the inputs chaps:} Some good insights. It all boils down to personal peferences indeed...lots of Rolex fans and many Panerais as well.

Perhaps, I should be more specific.... and hopfully spur up a second round here....

Nothing last forever right;? Is it possible for the Rolex (and its brand equity) to fade off in the next 10-15 years? What would it take to keep Rolex going? More importantly....how/why it could be replaced by another competitor (as a mass-marketing Luxury brand that is the standard for watches, especailly on the value reputation)?....Panerai perhaps?

I know this is a bit simplistic question...but it's fun to speculate the market every now and then;]

[Argee1977]

Rolex will be around for a long time, they have spent and fortune and are the biggest name in the watch world, that has taken decades and a lot of advertisement/endorsments but they are pretty much at the top when it comes to marketing and brand exposure.

For me i think Rolex might struggle in the next year or two though, although remember they produce and sell the most watches out of the high end watchmakers, so of course they'll struggle in a downturn. But i also feel a few things are starting to work against them, we've just had Baselworld, the biggest event in the calendar for the watch world and Rolex have put on a really disappointing show, a lot of people aren't happy with the lack of innovation or new models and in bad times that can lead to bad sales.

Panerai have had a good time with their watch releases this year though, they gave the people who were after their watches what they wanted, a cheaper in-house movement, more choices across the range and so on, so i can see them doing slightly better, but again remember they make about 35,000 watches a year, that's against Rolexes 1 million plus, so they do have less to shift and they also get more and more exposure with every year due to word of mouth and more ADs stocking them.


Anyway i'm not trying to be negative about Rolex and positive about Panerai, it's just the way i see it, i've had 7 Rolexes and 3 Panerai's, i currently have a Panerai but really want to get a Rolex sports as my next watch, but with price rises i'm starting to think i'm being priced out of this game and might have to look at something other than these two brands :(

[shalako]

I really like both brands and you obviously can't go wrong with either. If your a strap guy then Panerai is the obvious choice.

I do wonder though why you have narrowed it down to these two brands, especially if your not that inspired by the Rolex look. I personally think people think far too much about resale rather than what they actually like.....

[Argee1977]

I really like both brands and you obviously can't go wrong with either. If your a strap guy then Panerai is the obvious choice.

I do wonder though why you have narrowed it down to these two brands, especially if your not that inspired by the Rolex look. I personally think people think far too much about resale rather than what they actually like.....

Yeah, there's a lot of people linking Rolex and Panerai together, but in reality the two brands are miles apart in size, style, appearance and public knowledge.

There are so many brands out there that are worth a look, i prefer models rather than brands, if i had millions then i would probably have no more than two of a single brand, and i'd have a Vacheron Constantin, Glashutte, Patek, Audemars Piguet, Rolex, Panerai, Omega, Jaeger LeCoultre, GP, Blancpain, etc, etc. I guess i better keep playing the lottery :D

[AndyMilts]

Had both and prefer my Panerai's. There is also something nice about having a great watch that hardly anyone else has.

[Wazza]

With a new PAM 00243 Submersible on order, a PAM 0090 for sale and a Yacht-master as a keeper, Rolex Vs. Panerai? Own both at the same time is the right answer :D

[Bluetinfloor]

With a new PAM 00243 Submersible on order, a PAM 0090 for sale and a Yacht-master as a keeper, Rolex Vs. Panerai? Own both at the same time is the right answer :D

I would offer the same solution, only go for a decent pre-owned on both and with a bit of luck you could be paying around the same for two watches as current list for one, particuary with the likely UK price rises on both brands. You could then decide at your lesuire which one you prefer and would probably be able to sell the other for little or no loss. Also, as investment potential appears to be a factor (always a dangerous starting point), you will have "got in" at a better place on the price ladder as well.

[ingenioren]

It seems to me you should decide you maximum budget, then have a GOOD look at yourself, is it heart or head ruling ?, and thereafter at the watches !

I have often (as comparison) bought some of my cars KNOWING they will depreciate much more than others
(haven't 'traded' so much with watches ( yet ) !)
HOWEVER don't forget you only have this one life so do what you can to enjoy it, withoys always considering 'what's the value when i'm tired of it ' - in my book, enjoyment is a large part of value !!

Have fun :wink: