Can't have much longer now :wink:
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
Not sure I understand the implication - I'd be very surprised if he gets fired at this point. The instability it would create would make the club virtually unsaleable. My great hope is that we get rid of the (useless, meddling, poor) Americans soon and get someone with passion and resources instead. Sadly, I doubt that will happen though.
but who else can you replace him with?
He is a good manager overall, but good enough...........?
FA Cup : 2006
FA Community Shield : 2006
UEFA Champions League : 2004–05, Runner-Up : 2006-07
European Super Cup : 2005
Premier League, numerous 2nd places, 3rds
He does need to bring the prem title to anfield though and i can't see that this season, however it was obvious at the start of season the team was not strong enough, the loss of alonso and no real replacement was a disaster (in his making), he sticks with Lucas who is the worst Brazilian i have ever seen, cant pass, cant tackle, cant score and too short to head the ball.
Oh...and the ownership of the club has nothing to do with the performance of the team in my view, rafa has had money to spend how he sees fit........Robbie Keene :roll: ????? Glen Johnson...How Much :shock: and the list of duds goes on and on
However what manager of the right quality is realistically available to replace him?
he'll back back to waiting on tables after united stuff them on the weekend.
Rafa's a good manager its just a string of poor results that will eventually turn around, fans have no patience when it comes to success. Who? could replace him, not many in my opinion, i dont agree with the booing after the game last night either, as a football fan/supporter you have to be able to take the lows as well as the highs.
Well Utd may owe us one after the butchering they got in front of their own fans last season. :DOriginally Posted by 496magnum
Actually, I think the ownership of the club has a lot to do with it. We funded Aquilani and Johnson by selling players, when others were spending big money on squad players. Keane was a bit of a failure, but he only went after him because funds weren't available for the first choices, likewise Pennant et al.
Lucas gets a lot of stick, but he really isn't that bad as a second string midfielder. My main frustration is the lack of faith Rafa shows in some of our better youth talent. Wenger would have had Nemeth and Pacheco on the bench by now, instead the former is out on loan and the latter in the reserve set up. Our bench is always shocking - Voronin isn't good enough and won't change a game! That said, Insua seems to be cementing the left back slot and looks like he'll be a top player.
Only manager I'd like in Rafa's stead would be good ol' Jose. Now that would be a turnout for the books...
Actually, I think the ownership of the club has a lot to do with it. We funded Aquilani and Johnson by selling players, when others were spending big money on squad players. Keane was a bit of a failure, but he only went after him because funds weren't available for the first choices, likewise Pennant et al.
Lucas gets a lot of stick, but he really isn't that bad as a second string midfielder. My main frustration is the lack of faith Rafa shows in some of our better youth talent. Wenger would have had Nemeth and Pacheco on the bench by now, instead the former is out on loan and the latter in the reserve set up. Our bench is always shocking - Voronin isn't good enough and won't change a game! That said, Insua seems to be cementing the left back slot and looks like he'll be a top player.
Only manager I'd like in Rafa's stead would be good ol' Jose. Now that would be a turnout for the books...
Oh Dear......what a load of old cobblers! There was a fair bit of youth on display last night and oppps....they lost! (although actually i do agree with you on the youth point) He has failed to build a team, he has tried to buy one!
Lucas, not that bad, is that how you describe players with PL Title ambitions? Players that you consider 'not bad' ain't good enough, Lucas is crap......oh and before you ask I am a Liverpool fan who has watched them play 6 times this season.
And as for the ownership, the americans have tried to balcance the books like any foortball club however, Rafa has spent around £220 million pounds since being at the club
In*
• Josemi – £2m - (failure)
• Antonio Nunez - Makeweight in Michael Owen sale - (failure)
• Luis Garcia - £6m (success)
• Xabi Alonso - £10.7m (success)
• Peter Crouch - £7m (success)
• Momo Sissoko - £5.3m (success)
• Sebastian Leto - £1.85m (failure)
• Gabriel Palletta - £2m (failure)
• Bolo Zenden – free (failure)
• Pepe Reina - £6m (success)
• Fernando Morientes - £8m (failure)
• Daniel Agger - £5.8m (success)
• Robbie Fowler – free (failure)
• Craig Bellamy - £6.5m (failure)
• Dirk Kuyt - £10m (success)
• Jermaine Pennant - £6.7m (failure)
• Mark Gonzalez - £1.5m (failure)
• Fabio Aurelio – free (success)
• Javier Mascherano - £17m (success)
• Fernando Torres - £22m (success)
• Alvero Arbeloa – £2m (success)
• Ryan Babel - £11.5m (failure)
• Yossi Benayoun - £5m (success)
• Scott Carson - £750,000 (failure)
• Lucas Leiva - £6m (failure)
• Andriy Voronin – free (failure)
• Diego Cavalieri - £3m (?)
• David Ngog - £1.5m (?)
• Robbie Keane - £20.3m (failure)
• Andrea Dossena - £7m (failure)
• Philipp Degen – free (failure)
• Martin Skrtel – £6.5m - (success)
• Albert Riera – £8m (failure)
• Glen Johnson - £18m (?)
• Alberto Aquilani - £20m (? - inclusive of all add-ons)
• Sotirios Kyrgiakos - £1.5m (?)
Total spend - £229.65m (not including signing on fees)
* Successes - 13
* Failures - 18
* Too early to say - 5
Out
• Michael Owen - £8m + Antonio Nunez in
• El Hadji Diouf - £2m
• Antonio Nunez - undisclosed
• Josemi – swap with Jan Kromkamp
• Bolo Zenden – free
• Vladimir Smicer - free
• Jerzy Dudek - free
• Igor Biscan – free
• Luis Garcia - undisclosed
• Robbie Fowler - free
• Djibril Cisse – £6m
• Xabi Alonso – £30m
• Harry Kewell – free
• Stephane Henchoz – free
• Stephen Warnock - £1.5m
• John Arne Riise - £3m
• Peter Crouch - £11m
• Momo Sissoko - £6m
• Craig Bellamy - £7.5m
• Mark Gonzalez - £500,000
• Djimi Traore - £2m
• Scott Carson - £3.75m
• Fernando Morientes - £3m
• Chris Kirkland – undisclosed
• Jan Kromkamp - undisclosed
• Robbie Keane – (up to) £19m
• Sebastian Leto - £3m
• Gabriel Palletta - £2m
• Sami Hyypia – free
• Alvero Arbeloa – £2m
• Darren Potter - £250,000
• Danny Guthrie - £2.5m
Total - £112.5m
Net spend since summer 2004 - £117.15m (not including signing on fees)
I have never seen a manager have so many failures at a top 4 club, he has turned over 2 teams worth of players in 5 years :shock:
I in part like rafa.....but i think if a better manager becomes available he should be sacked not just becuase he has failed to bring the PL title but becuase he has failed to build a team, if he had his time again the development of youth which LFC is known for should be a priority. A lot of money spent with a CL title and an FA cup (the rest don't count)
Give the guy a break. After all it took him 5 years to build a 2 players team. You can't expect them to win when none is on the pitch after 25 min. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
:evil: As a Liverpool fan it pains me to say that i agree :(
I wouldn't give him too long if the results stay as they are. Only Ferguson and Wenger seem to have a right of tenure. My guess is the Americans will want results and won't put up with uncertainty.
Forget the PL, if he doesnt get through the group stages of the Champions League he's in trouble.........let me re phrase that the clubs finances will be in trouble. And even more trouble if they don't qualify next year :shock:
Hes been though more players than i've had hot dinners and as someone above has pointed out a lot of them not successful.
Remember this is the guy wanted Parry out so he could have control over ALL transfers and budget.............GAWD HELP LIVERPOOL.
Don't really mean that, as an Evertonian i think its great to see :D I know we (Everton) dont have cash to flash but i would be interested to know if Everton is in as much debt as Liverpool?
typical bitter blue.think you need to concentrate on getting to europe first. I think rafa is an excellent manager,yes he makes mistakes and buys some crap players. Ive supported liverpool all my 37yrs and i reckon hes been the best weve had since the premiership started. A few bad performances and supposed fans calling for the sack.Who would replace him?Then another 200mill for new players..I think fans need to get behind the team not critisise.Just my opinion.
totally agree
as usual bitter everton fans and the usual poisonous united fans are having a laugh right now, little early isnt it?
and lucas is in the latest brazil squad, cant be that bad :roll:
and what about fergies flops, veron, djemba, kelberson, taibi, bosnich, foster, kuzcak, nani, anderson, no sign of tosic yet either after he spend 12m on him,
all managers make mistakes in the transfer market
Not being a football fan allows me a somewhat less biased approach:
Liverpool had a great year last year but did not bring back silverware.
With all of his mistakes, Ferggie's MU delivers year on year. Wenger may not bring much trophies but Arsenal plays really attractive football, has a proper youth policy and is possibly the only club where the bottomline is written with black ink.
Yes Rafa may wriggle out of it but he is the one that said "great teams never lose twice in a row"
I think Houiller was a better manager than Rafa.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Playing attractive football doesnt always win you trophies.West Brom played good attacking football last season and look what happend to them,relegated. Houliers problem was he couldnt control his players on or off the field(spice boy era).Rafa is a great manager and thats why real madrid are chasing him.
sorry, but you have explained it all in those two sentences
I am sure you are correct, althought GH managed more silverware in 1 year than Rafa in 5. Thing is, Liverpool have never won the Premier League...sorry, but you have explained it all in those two sentences
Of course they have 18 English Champions titles to their name but it sounds like history, doesn't it? :lol: :lol: :lol:
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
houllier won tupperware
rafa won silverware
one champions league trophy is worth more than a league cup, uefa cup and fa cup combined,
and to get to another final 2 years later was unbelievable
P (Griswold) was trying to get me to join in the footie thread after I said I was a Liverpool fan but I have to add my views to this thread. Although following Liverpool since the days of Dalglish I am not one of the 'Liverpool-can-do-no-wrong' people - if they play like $hit then I'll come down heavy on them.
Liverpool played very well the end of last season but in my opinion:
1. The first team isn't good enough to win consistently this season. Or I should re-phrase: they don't play well enough as a team to win consistently.
2. The Liverpool squad isn't strong enough. The quality of substitutes we have on the bench wouldn't scare any Premiership team.
3. I don't believe Rafa is suited to Liverpool or the Premiership. He is a very good manager but I just don't believe he is right for us. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but some of his tactical decisions have been poor.
4. The players don't seem to give 100% - either that or they just aren't good enough. They need a good kick up their backsides to start earning their money.
5. I'm not in Merseyside so I don't know what the fans there think but for me, the Premiership is by far the main target.
I hope they can start winning a few games but I don't think they have any chance of winning the Premiership this year with the present squad and manager. It pains me to say all this but unless there is a major upheaval I cannot see us mounting a serious challenge (apart from last season we have not come anywhere near the Prem Champions in the last 5-6 years).
"bitter" Everton fan, i don't think so as i couldn't really give a stuff :lol: :lol:
And wasn't the spice boy era Roy Evans :roll: :roll:
Judging by the greeting he had from the fans, there must be a few people at Anfield that disagree with you :lol:
And those days where you won tupperware must still ring like a loving memory today, no? :twisted:
I'll stop the goading now :D
I don't care about football, really :drunken:
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Its normal to feel dissapointed but this is football, most can gloat but it is nothing more than what we did after last seasons champions league final, hehe. :D
£13-18m in compensation to pay to Rafa if Liverpool get out the axe. That's money they don't have as far as I see it. They're stuck with him.
Please please don't sack Rafa.
Where else could i find such amusement as he drags liverpool to the edge.
I never thought we´d miss Xabi Alonso this much, it´s frightening!
Rafa will come good, he´s the best manger we´ve had since Dalglish. The players should take a long hard look at themselves as well, they´re the boys who reckon they´re up to playing in the PL so they should start showing that they want it. I haven´t seen much evidence of that lately. Also, Carra wants to pull his finger out, he´s been dire so far, this season.
Onwards and upwards
YNWA!
It is just sad that as one of the greatest teams ever (Champions League says it all...), and with its history can't do a bit better. We were lucky to have a home-grown in Stevie Gerrard, but apart from Torres we don't have any outstanding players. The clubs that do really well have a manager with an eye for talent and buying in the 'special' players at a good price.
Getting rid of managers all the time just seems to be a knee jerk reaction most of the time, again, the best clubs give their managers time to build and work through the tough times (otherwise you get fired like Gareth Southgate, 2nd in the league). The only real exception to this seems to be Chelsea who spent so much that if they don't win it is just a crime.
Meanwhile, as a Liverpool fan, I live in hope that they will come good for a long time to come! :walk:
It doesn't seem to be a good time for Merseyside football all together...
Benfica 4:0 Everton...
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
First I must say that I'm an Olympique Lyonnais fan (live in Lyon) and I don't have the opportunity to see many Premier League games. I saw the Liverpool-Lyon game and was super surprised.
First, the 2 teams were in a poor shape at the beginning : Torres out and Gerrard unable to play for Liverpool and a real problem of central defence for Lyon : all the central defenders (even the reserves ones !!!) injured except one, we had to play with one central defender Cris and a midfielder playing as central defender Toulalan. Unfortunately he's our best midfielder, so we had to play with Makoun as defensive midfielder.
Second : Coaches choices : I can't understand either Claude Puel, nor Benitez.
For Liverpool, Ngog as full striker ???? I don't know Liverpool's bench but I'm sure he could choice a more experienced player. For Lyon it's even more strange, why Ederson ?????? We know that Premier League clubs have a more physical game, why keep GOMIS on the bench ? and why BASTOS didn't play at all ????
After Cris injury I was sure the game was over, GONALONS is a super young midfielder, with almost no experience, and he was playing as central defender with another midfielder...But it worked, defence was the strongest part of the team, sad we had no left side (EDERSON didn't do anything). I must recognise that NGOG was not a big danger, Kelly, Carrager and Insua were weak too, Agger, Mascherano and Benayoun were the best players.
In conclusion a super surprising victory (sorry), I think we would have been pleased with a 0-0 or a 1-1, so a victory...
Will you come to Lyon for the return match ?
Sorry for raising false hopes in my last post. FT is actually
Benfica 5:0 Everton
:albino:
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
[quote="Saint-Just"]Sorry for raising false hopes in my last post. FT is actually
Benfica 5:0 Everton
As a Liverpool fan, I would like to say that I am disappointed that Everton have just lost 5 -0, but then as I get told at work, they are only a small club!
Look on the bright side, Gareth Southgate is available!! :bounce:
So am I, but I can't see Liverpool paying me either!!!!!!!!
To consistently finish as high as Everton have in the Premiership for the last few years with relatively minimal investment is admirable.
To consistently finish anywhere other than at the top of the premiership considering the amount of investment that Liverpool have had is criminal. :P
And as an aside, we've had our best two players out since last season, but haven't used that as an excuse in the same way as Rafa does when two of his best are out.
To consistently finish anywhere other than at the top of the premiership considering the amount of investment that Liverpool have had is criminal. :P
[quote]
Apart from the fact that other clubs are spending more than the mighty reds! Chelsea for the past while and Man City this season...
Like I say, Everton are only a small club (so the fan at work always tells me!). But hey, I have Everton as one of my teams in our work footie compitition, so I don't think that they are that bad...
The thing that gets me about Rafa is that he is always complaining about not having the money to spend, but if you look at how much money he has spent $$$$. The only problem is that alot of the players he has brought (particularly some of the spanish players) just aren't up to the very top level in the premiership (champion's league is a bit different).
BTW I'm an Ipswich fan, so don't get to see much top level footie... :cry:
Go Rafa, Go
He probably will soon, as the clubs owners have stated they back him 100%. :wink:
F.T.F.A.
I hope they get their act together for Sunday or they will get their asses handed to them by Utd.
Rafa may be great at tactics in Euro games but there's no excuse for shoddy performances in the Premier League. You need guts and to fight as if your life depended on it and I don't see that in recent games, plus they are 2-dimensional at times.....no creativity. We also need a world class holding midfielder, and playmaker. It's not rocket science, Rafa, FFS!
Play 12 games ( you don't even have to win them all) and you can win a cup. And not being in contention in your own countrys championship should make the job more focused for the team and manager
I mean, you don't even need to be champions of your own countrys league to be in it :D hence the debacle when liverpool won the cup and then failed to reach a qualifiying place for the following season, so the rules had to be changed to accommodate them. :roll:
Liverpool still live in the past. :drunken:
That's not the reason Liverpool do well in Europe - Rafa is a very good tactician where Euro games are concerned. Despite having a weaker team and not as gifted players, Liverpool have beaten Chelsea, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, AC Milan etc in recent years. Added to that the fighting spirit and they've managed to come back from the dead in many games.
Play 12 games ( you don't even have to win them all) and you can win a cup. And not being in contention in your own countrys championship should make the job more focused for the team and manager :
That's the way the Champions League is, I'm afraid. Years ago when we were winning 4 European Cups in 6 years it was a knock-out tournament and you had to be a great side to get through EVERY round. Liverpool sometimes don't play that well in the qualifying group but do win most of the knockout matches (normally get to the SF or QF at least).
True, but not to gloat like you would believe. It's more of a frustration with the fact that we haven't had a truly great side for so many years. Something that I'm sure Man Utd fans must have also thought about their team in the years between 68 - 90 when Liverpool were dominant.
As a Sunderland Fan I think the first pic is awesome :twisted:
The problem with Liverpool this year is that you have no spine.
Bruce has worked hard on this for us over the summer and we are a centre half away from having the best Spine in the prem (excluding the top 4)
Gordon
Turner MISSING
Cana Cattermole
Jones Bent
Liverpool have (for me) the best 'keeper in the Prem, however no centre backs performing this year. no Gerrard and sold Alonso and no Torres and other strikers that would struggle to get on our bench.
This is down to Rafa as he should have built a decent enough team in the time he has been there and with the money he has had. However if you sack Rafa will there be any cash to spend in Jan? I heard it would cost £20mil just to get rid of him!!!!
I think one of Rafa's main problems is his man management skills. It was widely reported that after Liverpools Euro success in 2005, rather than join in the celebrations he wanted to talk to Gerrard about the defensive lapses in the first half. Now this shows a degree of unrivalled focus but FFS your team has shown great spirit to come from 3 nil down.........surely the discussions of the game can wait.
I can't help thinking someone like Martin O'Neil would still get an extra 10 or 20 percent from the existing crop of players purely with his man management (even if he extracted 50% from a certain Lucas it still would not be enough for me). I always recall players at Newcastle under the Keegan regime saying you knew you were an average player but Keegan would have you believe you were the best on the planet.
Sense Torres and Gerrard will both be fit for Sunday. Should be a good game either way.
Will be interetsing if the Utd fans bring their 99 Red Ballons with them as I've heard!! :lol:
They have always got Sammy Lee to fall back on ?
soft landing :lol:
Looks like he'll be staying a bit longer after the well-deserved victory yesterday.
Where was the bloody spine when Birmingham pulled you all over??, get real, Liverpool have been suffering lately from confidence, lucky for you's it happened to be your time to play them!!!.
Thats a spine????
Are we talking Sunderland here or Barcelona???
Rafa, wont be sacked, just because we beat Man utd on Sunday does'nt make us a great team the same as the previous poor results dont make us a bad one. So Sunderland for a top four finish then? to edge Liverpool out? :lol:
here we go, one win and you come back out the woodwork.
we had a crap game at the weekend and will bounce back.
apart from Torres none of your strikers would get in our first team.
we will have a 'no drama' season finishing mid table because of lack of depth and creativity.
my points still stand. with Torres playing, Mascherano and Carragah finally finding form and Reina in goal you looked a decent side at the weekend. without them you lack depth and will get beat.
if you actually took any notice of the prem this season Cana and Cattermole are being regarded as two of the best buys of the summer. Bent is the prem's second top scorer and Turner has had a couple of Englend call-ups - so yes we have a decent spine
Sorry fella,
I stated the obvious in the last part of my reply but i take exception to Sunderland fans saying Liverpool dont have a spine to their team, now if you had said we were playing poorly i could'nt agree more, you should worry more about your own side rather than being a critic of others, newcastle excluded of course :lol:
Anyhow best of luck with the rest of the season, Liverpool will finish above Man Utd but it wont win them the league this year!
Later.
Chelsea will win the league Man United second
Then its Liverpool, City or Arsenal to take the other two spots depending on who City buy, and what injuries Liverpool and Arsenal suffer between now and the end of the season
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