No, you're saying you don't like her therefore she cannot sing; to use your metaphor what you are saying is you don't like a car with 700 bhp therefore it is not very powerful.Originally Posted by snowman
No, you're saying you don't like her therefore she cannot sing; to use your metaphor what you are saying is you don't like a car with 700 bhp therefore it is not very powerful.
OK, back to my question then, how do I assess whether she can 'sing' or not?
A list of technically impressive stats mean nothing if I can't make a judgement on whether it's good or not.
It seems to me that most people can't make that distinction.
I can think of lots of performers who I don't really like much, but who I believe are good singers, but she's absolutely NOT in the list.
You're saying she's technically good, but does that mean she can 'sing' or that she can make a series of specific sounds? I'm happy to concede her warbling is an affectation that, perhaps, impresses some and that maybe she can hold a note if she wants.
Back to the 700 BHP car - If it just sits there meaninglessly spinning its wheels in clouds of smoke it's useless. It doesn't mean it's not powerful...
I guess what we (and many others) are not going to agree on is what constitutes someone who can sing... To me, it's not just hitting this or that note, it's the whole way you convey and deliver a song.
I'm not qualified to judge technical ability, maybe you are (or you may just be repeating stated stats with as much knowledge as me, I don't know), but that, to me, is not the be all of 'singing'.
M
Last edited by snowman; 6th April 2016 at 11:05.
Then that just comes down to a subjective decision of whether you like the delivery or not. My point was that Mariah Carey can sing well technically, you don't like her 'warbling that is an affectation', fair enough -but many millions of her fans do, neither your opinion nor theirs alters whether she can sing or not, and I didn't think this thread was 'Singers whose delivery you don't like'.
I don't like Opera, I can't listen to it for more than 5 minutes, although Lord knows I've tried; I don't like the style of music or indeed anything about it, a soprano is like fingernails on a blackboard for me and I'll take Paloma Faith or Elkie Brooks or Gladys Knight or Stevie Nicks or Norah Jones over Kiri Te Kanawa any day of the week, but it doesn't mean the latter can't sing.
I would consider myself a huge fan of Eric Clapton - over the last 45 years I've bought dozens of LPs, CDs, DVDs and been to many concerts - but that is for his obvious musical skills, he is not a bad lyricist and I don't mind his delivery but he cannot sing, he has been doing his best since his first attempts on Crossroads, but the bloke simply cannot sing.
The Youtube film Eddie posted shows that, although not perfect, Peter Andre can sing a bit and Jordan simply cannot. This is neither technical knowledge nor a matter of opinion, it is just blatantly obvious, for me at least.
Definitely Florence and not just live. Call it obscure harmonies but it is not pleasing to the ear.
OK, well if "Can't sing for toffee" means is as bad as Jordan, I'll concede Mariah Carey CAN sing for toffee...
But equally I'd argue 90% of the people mentioned in this thread are better than Peter Andre!
I guess we need a 'singometer' to determine who can sing, because I'm not sure what being able to sing means any more...
I think we've just proved that that's irrelevant...
M
Last edited by snowman; 6th April 2016 at 11:41.
Personally I can't stand Mariah Carey but no doubt she's technically accomplished.
Stone Roses on the other hand I love their music but Ian Brown seriously cannot sing whatsoever. In the case of rock music I think one needs to accept that the singers aren't necessarily technically perfect as that's not really what the music is about but in Ian Brown's case he's so bad it's painful!
OK - What about Phil Oakey of the Human League?
I think he's as flat as a pancake and yet I love the sound of his voice!
Am I wrong (again)? Is he actually a great singer?
What about Whitney Houston? Is she rubbish?
M.
Liam Gallagher - i'd like Oasis more if it wasn't for him - and then his myriad imitators.
Tony Mcphee - then as now the guys a phenomenal guitarist, one of the best - but his voice is terrible. That said, i'd happily listen to much more of it if the poor guy got his speech back, he lost it after a stroke a few years back and now his missus does the singing.
Must admit to a soft spot for Lily Allen, her lyrics are often very sharp and funny with it.
Craig David - ok he can sing, but i still want to punch him until my knuckles shatter.
Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull, used to have a distinctive and instersting voice but it's gone totally now sadly.
Last edited by ktmog6uk; 6th April 2016 at 11:59.
ktmog6uk
marchingontogether!
[SUB]No just 'not to my taste' but out of tune (Florence that is).
Mmmm - I thought it was 'obscure harmonies'?
It might offend your ears, but not a lot of peoples', so that is a subjective statement.
She might be 'out of tune' - I'm not sure what you really mean by that, but again, I'm not sure it matters if people like what she does.
In terms of popular music, from what I've now understood, I don't think technical ability is that important. You'll either appeal or you won't. Delivery, charisma and performance all play a greater part in deciding if you enjoy a singer or not. Sometimes even the most discordant notes appeal to something in you.
Maybe we need another couple of threads "People who can't sing, but you really like" and "People who are great singers, but set your teeth on edge"...?
M.
Last edited by snowman; 6th April 2016 at 12:47.
And as you raised The Human League, what about 'Backing singers who not only can't dance, but haven't even the slightest glimmer of a sense of rhythm.'
I was reminded of this in the Ali Gee/Beckams interview (talking about Brooklyn Beckham...)
Ali: So tell me, do you want him to grow up to be a footballer like his
dad, or a singer - like Mariah Carey?
V: Yeah, I'd like him to grow up to be a footballer like his dad, and I'd
like to grow up to be a singer like Mariah Carey!
Not conforming to the tuning system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musica...Tuning_systems) that I am culturally familiar with. That said I'm not culturally familiar with the Chinese tuning system but I'd rather listen to Chinese music than FatM
Vince Neil - Motley Crue & Joe Elliott of Def Leppard are both sadly woeful when it comes to live 'singing'. Last few times I saw Vince he only just managed to squeal about every third word of most of the songs and spent a long time with his mike held out towards the audience for them to sing it for him.
Those two I'd claim are well beyond subjective - they just can't cut it any more.
On a more subjective side though there's people like Roddy Stone who 'sings' for Viking Skull. His voice is definitely an acquired taste, but for me he is very very good at what he does. Live he comes very close to replicating what he sounds like on the albums.
There is a definite difference between having a pleasing tone and being capable of hitting the notes you're going for - but then even a 'good' singer who is pitch perfect within their range will sound awful if they stray outside that range.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
