Yes a nice wee saving atm anyway I am sure the tax man will soon put a tax on it.Originally Posted by Dave+63
I do remember with a smile the old chip shop oil used as fuel and the tax man was after his share. No doubt a bag of crispy bits if folk remember them.... The Good old days fish, chips and a drink for less than a tenner
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As an aside I went for a drink last night with my 20 year old son - who recently passed his driving test - and his mates, all of whom have passed their tests within the last couple of years (you really need a car in North Norfolk, there is very little viable public transport) for a bunch of millennials they certainly seem very interested in bhp, the difference between a turbo and a supercharger, subwoofers and big alloy wheels! - nothing at all appears to have changed since I was a lad when it comes to young blokes and cars! - I mentioned the EV thing, and none of them see it as remotely affordable for them - they don’t own their own homes, don’t have their own electricity bill, and more importantly can’t even begin to afford a Tesla which appears to be the only EV they desire. I mentioned the Mustang Mach E and all said ‘that’s not a proper Mustang, you want a big V8 in a muscle car’! - so much for sensitive millennials!
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The ones we found yesterday are in Fakenham ( there are also a few in Morrison’s) and Holt has a fair few. In the summer months when half of London is up here in some form of massive black SUV or Tesla they can be quite busy, for the remaining 8 months it’s like tumbleweed with all the chargers empty and the car park full of Ford Rangers, various pick ups and 10 year old Fiestas!
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Ah, cheers. I’d seen the Fakenham ones on ZapMap, useful resource for parking up and getting a charge whilst you poke around town for a bit.
I'm in, put my order in for a q4 etron last night, just waiting for a delivery date.
Replacing the wife's Q7, didn't think she would go for it but after a test drive she loved it
Quite excited by it
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Nice... They look great and a good option if you have two cars
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Fair enough. A bit of spirited driving around these parts will certainly involve a bit of stopping! I have to admit I’ve been surprised at how many charge points I see popping up all over North Norfolk. My daily commute is about 14 miles each way so I was already considering an EV as I am lucky enough to have a drive and garage with plenty of scope for a home charger. When the car is up for renewal in just under 18 months I’m sure there will be more models on sale - and a lot of the current models like the VW ID3 will have their reported software glitches sorted. It does feel like there is a lot of focus on the more expensive/luxury end of the market at the moment, it’ll be interesting to see the advances trickle down to the masses
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Same here, we are operating all over Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire and there are plenty but it’s still charge rate vs £££ vs are they actually working.
I am finding more supermarkets have free 7kw charging which by the time I have a pee, sandwich and flip the laptop open I have 30 miles in the bin for nothing. I have installed three charging points in the office for staff and clients who visit, so I always leave fully charged and the one at home is good for weekends.
I think the VW looks great unlike my M3P which is plain ugly
Pitch
Great move installing three charging points - it’s meaningful gestures like that which will help spread the network of chargers and increase the take-up of EV’s in the short to medium term. I have a couple of clients whose businesses have done the same thing, and the staff can’t stop raving about it :)
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I know a guy who really takes the urine with the Tesco chargers.
He has a Nissan e-NV200 that he uses for parcel delivery. When is battery is running low he goes to the local Tesco, plugs in, jumps in his girlfriends car (who followed him in obviously) and just leaves his van there charging. He doesn’t even go into the shop.
How long he leaves it there for I don’t know but he was recently bragging on Facebook that he hadn’t paid for fuel for nearly a year.
Just looking on autotrader for electric cars and browsing the MG5 which seemed a very good price at under 21k, but there is a catch. That price is only available to public sector workers though. Surely that’s discrimination isn’t it?
Theoretically, yes.
But, they can do what they like unless it is discriminating on age, race, sex, disability etc.
Would probably come under "treating customers fairly" with the FCA.
Plenty of discounts for NHS workers around, esp. during this pandemic.
If you can’t afford a £50k car, why look at £50k cars and say that they are too expensive?
You wouldn’t look at a £50k ICE which you can’t afford and say all ICE cars are too expensive.
Granted there are far fewer EVs than ICE to choose from but prices start at a little over £20k
It’s also worth remembering (particularly with lease or PCP) that it’s not just the monthly cost of the lease to account for; a £500/month EV is likely to work out cheaper than a £400/month ICE when everything is taken into consideration.
See that’s the thing, a nice SUV ICE I could probably look around £30-£35k as there’s so much more choice, hence again the reason that until they come down in price they are impractical for the majority including me.
You could buy a Skoda Enyaq EV for under £35k. Most of the 60kwhr Enyaq models are below £35k rrp in order to benefit from the £2,500 government grant so less than £32,500.
My daughter has an MG ZS EV which cost her £22k new.
Both are nice SUVs
As per my previous post for most private buyers Ev's are a none starter.I looked at the Kia Niro e and it was far cheaper for me to buy a petrol/hybrid than electric due to the ev costing more and that was on 9000 miles per year.
Re your daughter i am glad she got a good deal but that could have been due to extra discount working for the NHS etc.
A MGZS EV Exclusive with PICG is £28595 while the petrol version is £20805 so for most people they are never going to save nearly £8000 pounds in running costs for petrol/servicing etc.
If you are leasing or PCP then the figures may be better.
I have nothing against EV's(apart from how ugly the Tesla is from the front) and i hope in three years time they have come down enough to consider but for most private buyers they are not the answer at the moment.
As for the OP there are some really nice EV's out there for business users and i really like the Audi.
You said that the Kia EV was £3k more than the hybrid but at 9000 miles a year, you’re likely to be saving around £1000 in petrol at today’s prices (and they’re likely to only go up) so the overall cost of ownership is unlikely to be greater over a three year (or greater) period.As per my previous post for most private buyers Ev's are a none starter.I looked at the Kia Niro e and it was far cheaper for me to buy a petrol/hybrid than electric due to the ev costing more and that was on 9000 miles per year.
Re your daughter i am glad she got a good deal but that could have been due to extra discount working for the NHS etc.
A MGZS EV Exclusive with PICG is £28595 while the petrol version is £20805 so for most people they are never going to save nearly £8000 pounds in running costs for petrol/servicing etc.
If you are leasing or PCP then the figures may be better.
I have nothing against EV's(apart from how ugly the Tesla is from the front
As for the OP there are some really nice EV's out there for business users and i really like the Audi.
My daughter didn’t get a discount for NHS etc as she doesn’t work in the NHS. Last year, however, there were some great deals available and she was able to buy a brand new exclusive for £22k. If she’d waited a month or so, she could have saved another £1000. Obviously these deals are unavailable now due to the current state of the car market.
I was hoping to pick up an MG5 for under £20k but obviously that didn’t happen.
I take it back, i never came across that model yesterday on a search for SUV EV's, actually not bad looking or priced and seems to have a range over 250 miles (realistic terms not manufacture's figure's), thanks i'll have a look at that model as well...
Scratch that idea, just did the figures for a 2 year lease deal on a model i liked:
Retail cash price
£ 42,915
Monthly Payment
£ 723.06
Rental in advance
£ 4,338.36
Contract length
24 month(s)
Annual mileage
10 ,000 Miles per year
Excess mileage
16.49 p
£723 a month!!!
I normally pay around £300 ish on a lease deal...
I'll see what they are like in 5 years time...
Last edited by Martylaa; 14th August 2021 at 11:27.
The costs savings are a no brainier. For me to replace like for like when I change next year ( a diesel LR for another diesel LR ) I’d be looking at 40k+ for a similar car which would work out well in excess of my current lease. I seem to remember my current car was £36k.
The payment on the EV car I’m going for will be cheaper than a new like for like diesel anyway....that’s before we start talking about fuel / electric costs.
Most people are dismissing them on a few factors but I think fail to think about the longer term cost implications not only to their pocket but their immediate environment.
It’s clear that everyone here who won’t buy an EV for whatever spurious reason hasn’t actually really looked into EV ownership.
Those that have, or actually own one, only have positive things to say about them.
I would recon its far simpler it's convenience if you have a drive/garage they are viable if you don't have either you will struggle. Also subsidies and the lack of fuel duty on them atm provides large savings. Benifit in kind savings also push them for business atm they are a win/win for a particular demographic . These tend to be higher income households
As with oil and mineral mining the environmental cost is huge.
https://euobserver.com/opinion/151057
I think this is possibley a little one sided but as the battery industry grows and shows huge scope for expansion we must be careful in how we act or like the rain forests or the Great barrier reef signs of wear and tare will start to show in these mining regions but as many have pointed out our air will be clean close to us.
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As usual with these things, the picture is much more complicated and nuanced than the headlines.
The DRC is working hard to formalise the 30% of independent/illegal of cobalt mining that goes on, making it much safer in the process. It’s a tricky thing, this informal mining puts food on the table for many families, but clearly nobody should die due to mining cobalt.
Some manufacturers are for now buying cobalt only from Morocco and Australia, bypassing the DRC completely.
We use cobalt in all kinds of things, including the refining of fossil road fuels, but I think the extra demand being driven by EV manufacture is helping to shine a light on horrible practices which should help benefit everybody longer term.
The FT wrote a good piece on it.
https://www.ft.com/content/c6909812-...6-a4640c9feebb
*quiet voice at the back of the room*
I said I was changing my mind, and I have been reading about them in Evo and Octane for a decade and in the general motoring press since the 80s.
I spent an hour in the Honda dealership yesterday talking about it.
I am listening.
Doesn’t that prove my point?*quiet voice at the back of the room*
I said I was changing my mind, and I have been reading about them in Evo and Octane for a decade and in the general motoring press since the 80s.
I spent an hour in the Honda dealership yesterday talking about it.
I am listening.
You’ve been looking into it fairly seriously (the Honda E is hardly an option as a one car solution though due to it having such a small battery) and you are changing your mind, presumably in favour of the possibility of running an EV.
Going back to your question about a 300mile each way trip to the country (there is countryside closer than the Outer Hebrides though!), my parents live 300 miles away in Halifax and I could do that trip in any one of a number of the newer EVs with one stop for coffee each way which I do anyway. I don’t drive the five hours in one hit any more. That said, I’d probably buy a Tesla as the supercharger network is currently still the most reliable.
Was thinking reading this thread if we had ev's first then someone came along and said I've invented a new form of motive power. It involves a lot of parts that have to be engineered to work together, powered by an on-board electrical system driven from a belt and this engine is fuelled by a volatile, toxic, inflammable liquid that has to be extracted from the ground in deserts, polar wastes or from below the seabed and then refined and shipped around the world and will cause pollution during extraction, refining, shipping and use would we think that sounds fantastic, where do we sign up?
I say let's skip the middle-man, batteries and even hydrogen.......and all just go straight to cars powered by miniature on-board nuclear reactors. Job done, what could go wrong
This....said exactly the same to the wife the other day.👍
From my memory (which isn't always that reliable I grant you), I think that's exactly what happened if you look back in automotive history. Electric powered vehicles are far from a new idea and pre-date the ICE.
This is true, EVs are not a new thing, they failed last time for various reasons. This is an interesting article;
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...droidApp_Other
A comment that dates it, is this one;
In the years that followed, as more people bought private cars, electric vehicles took on a new connotation: they were women’s cars. This association arose because they were suitable for short, local trips, did not require hand cranking to start or gear shifting to operate, and were extremely reliable by virtue of their simple design. As an advertisement for Babcock Electric vehicles put it in 1910, “She who drives a Babcock Electric has nothing to fear”. The implication was that women, unable to cope with the complexities of driving and maintaining petrol vehicles, should buy electric vehicles instead. Men, by contrast, were assumed to be more capable mechanics, for whom greater complexity and lower reliability were prices worth paying for powerful, manly petrol vehicles with superior performance and range.
Never liked the look of Teslas but test drove a 3 this morning. Inside and from a driving perspective it was awesome. The instant and fuss-free oomph is something else, and I recommend the experience even if you’re not in the market.
Our experience of electric cars is that they are truly fabulous to drive. We swapped out of a Discovery 4 and a Volvo XC60 into two Golfs - a seven year old petrol one and a new E-Golf.
Both of us far prefer driving the electric car to the petrol equivalent - the sense of instant power and responsiveness (nothing like as fast as a Tesla of course) is really great.
Obviously the cars we sold have capabilities (space, 4WD) that the Golfs don't have, but we're saving about £5k per annum in fuel/tax/servicing/insurance costs which more than offsets the borrowing required for the capital costs.
Regarding virtue signalling (which seems to have upset some on here) we simply felt we couldn't justify two large, heavy vehicles after the kids had left home and were (mostly!) not coming on holidays with us. Having said that, there's a lot of interest in EVs, and we know of at least two families who have opted for one after hearing of our largely very positive experience.
Best wishes,
Martyn.
There is talk of all new builds having to have facility for charging EVs. My daughters house was built last year and has the wiring for an EV charger (double outdoor socket on it at the moment).
The trouble is the builders don’t have the brains to put the charger point anywhere close to the parking space, her house is double fronted with parking to the left and the charge point under the right hand window!
To fit a charger, the cable will need to go to first floor level, along the length of the house under the hung tiles, round the corner, down the fuse if the house passing round the chimney before dropping down to the best place to put the charger. About 15m in total.
EV's are the equivalent of BetaMax video players...
The idea is great, but in reality they're not fit for general purpose.
I'm happy to hear otherwise from EV drivers who do 350-400 mile days regularly (weekly) though....
Serious question:
Does anyone know of a Police Force or Emergency Service that has gone 100% electric...or has stated they are going to do so?
Under trial......https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...olice-car.html
Dont understand the bit about not being fit for purpose when we’ve heard from a few people on here that they are
So what’s the equivalent of VHS?
So unless they can do 350-400 miles on a charge, they’re not fit for general purpose?
Err, right.
Not yet but as far as I’m aware there are no EV ambulances or fire engines yet. That’s hardly relevant though.
Yep...right.
Great for a 20 or 30 mile commute, or a town car....but I need to do a return journey to Scotland twice a month....my car (BMW 4 Series) has a tank range of over 500 miles and a refuel takes minutes.
Will be happy to change to an EV when they can get anywhere near this.
Had a poke around an ID.3 and an MG5 today. The ID.3 seemed smaller than I thought it would be, it would be pretty snug for three adults across the back.
The MG5 surprised me. It seemed really good value for what you get. It looked packed with toys and with £1500 down it was coming in at £402 over 60 months on HP, so no balloon payment at the end.
The taxi trade has picked back up now so I’ll be going back and if I put my E220 back on as a taxi I would be looking at about £480-£500 a month on fuel for that, so the MG at £402 a month is going to come in cheaper than that even after charging costs.
I wonder how many are like me? I'm a prime candidate for an EV. I can buy or lease one through a company, I can have charging at home and I don't do a lot of long journeys. So why don't I have one? Because the potential cost savings are insignificant, the cars uninspiring, and most importantly I'm just not prepared to swap the potential benefits for the risk of being inconvenienced or stranded and the requirement to think ahead and plan.
I want to be convinced. Is there any hope for me?
Have you done the calculations on what you will save in BIK? That should be sufficient to convince you.
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Quick question hoping you EV owners can help me with:
When you charge the car once it’s fully charged does the charger shut itself down?
Also if you left the car fully charged then went away for say 2 or 3 weeks, the will the battery be fully charged stil?
Thanks.
Yes, the car doesn’t take any more charge once it has reached the level you require.
A small point, but the car battery charger/s are actually on board the car. The box on your wall is actually just an EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) and it’s job is to ‘talk’ to the car and understand what charge rate it can take and also tell the car what power it can supply. They negotiate every time you plug in.
EVs also have a sophisticated Battery Management System (BMS) and that will look after the car battery longer term. In the majority of newer EVs, you can’t actually use the whole battery, it has a buffer to protect the long term health of the battery, so you can’t ever over charge it or run it completely flat. Most also have a DC to DC converter that will trickle charge the 12v ancillary car battery and ensure that doesn’t go flat whilst it’s sitting unused.
Basically, just let the car manage itself.
The onboard systems/computers do use some power when the car is parked, I heard that Teslas have approx 1% per day 'phantom drain', others may obviously vary but are likely to use some power also for the same reasons.
Mine is pretty good but if I have sentry mode activated if can zip the battery 2-3% is not unheard of. Likewise if I keep waking the car up it will use battery whilst parked.
It is worth mentioning that the car is never off like a ICE car, it simply is awake or sleeping but using power all the time managing the battery, it makes some strange strange noises at time.
Pitch
No ones trying to convince anyone to do anything but I fail to see how it won’t pay in the long run if you’re purchasing a comparably priced vehicle.
£10 for 200 miles or £30 for 200 miles.
Of course, but how on earth are we going to generate and distribute sufficient electricity - the gap between now and what the aspirations are seem to be miles out of alignment?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Won’t the majority of charging be done overnight? Purely guesswork here but I’d think that there is more energy being used by households through the day (cooker, washer, tumble dryer, kettle etc) than there would be with the same household charging an electric car overnight.
If the grid can meet the demand through the day, why wouldn’t it meet the demand through the night?
Because everyone will be charging overnight eventually- during the day a lot of houses are empty and need changes throughout the day
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Seems like the government missed an opportunity to gather information about on/off street parking in the last census.....opportunity missed or what?
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