I think the foreman may already be knocking on the door with a verdict. It'd take quite a turnaround from the current reaction.Originally Posted by W124
I think the foreman may already be knocking on the door with a verdict. It'd take quite a turnaround from the current reaction.
Funnily enough I'm waiting on a fella today to view a 2021 Martin Baker and his reasoning being before they 'destroy the design'
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On the face of it supportive but keen to make the point they are not behind the designs!
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Plus the fact that this is posted Saturday afternoon when the show and launch happened at the very start of the week.On the face of it supportive but keen to make the point they are not behind the designs!
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Too little and too late to be anything other than damning with faint praise.
Foxy has also posted to ask people to handle the new watches before they make their minds up.
This is clearly firefighting in the face of adverse reaction to the range
I have been reflecting on what most consider a worrying change of direction.
B&R could be considered on of Bremonts peers, around a bit longer, similar aviation / military / adventure focus, and one of the weaker luxury watch brands. They have a very strong sense of self, and their watches, the square ones in particular are uncompromising. That isn’t an approach for the masses, but it gives them a niche, and they seem pretty stable in it. Being yourself isn’t always popular, but that authenticity makes good business sense. Generic me-too will end in tears.
I hope it doesn’t, I’ve always liked the company.
D
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I can think of some things that get more interesting when you handle them, but they wouldn’t include watches.
You can argue all you want, but buying those new models for RRP is utter madness.
I'd rather put my money towards a Zelos to name but a micro brand, it's utter madness what they charge for a blown up non-story and a generic watch.
Last edited by Daddelvirks; 15th April 2024 at 09:53.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Never been on my radar, and now even less so, look to be heading to the CW market segment!
Seem to have stolen the logo from the crown on the Chopard Alpine Eagle.
Should we let time tell?
Excuse the pun. Lets see where they are in 3 years.
RIAC
Agreed you never know wish them all the best no easy task getting as far as they have.
I seem to buy into a brand when all the smart money moves out. Maybe I should get a a first generation orange barrel MB2 while I can.
D
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Haha exactly the same here, always late to the party.
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II remember back when the forums Bremont fan boys had a falling out over a golden propeller freebie. Used to have quite a strong following . These new offerings look a bit generic. Not sure if the younger market they are aiming for will really buy into the new branding and models.
Thats alot of investment for a rental!
But to be honest, that’s the majority of the luxury watch world they’re all fur coat and no knickers. guys cutting about in big fancy watches and cars that are leased and houses they don’ not own. All false fame and fortune
RIAC
depends on how it's been arranged. Who paid for the build and how is the lease arranged? Might well be better financially for a business to lease a building rather than buy it outright. It's been designed and built with Bremont in mind from the outset. The machining area within the building is actually quite small given Bremonts original aspirations and it was mentioned that there was land behind the Wing for a secondary manufacturing premises when needed. I presume that won't be happening now.
what's curious to me, regardless of the rebrand or the aesthetics of the new releases is that right up until Cerratos appearance and the investment from Ackman, Bremont were pushing the manufacturing angle in a big way. The new movement, case manufacturing - in fact I believe that both the case and bracelet for the Supernova were Bremont manufactured (?), rotor manufacturing etc. It seems that's all been thrown by the wayside which is a very odd move.
Well, Ackman insisted he invested personally, and on a long term basis, having privately bought some of their watches in the Mayfair Store.
It strikes me as more likely that Hellcat LP, the other major investor (and larger than Ackman) is the one pushing in this new direction, as they seem to be more of a short horizon VC group.
The fact that they have between 50-75% of voting rights, whilst holding 25-50% of shares means they have the most significant control.
It will be interesting to see how they get on going forward
I think this is the investment organisation?
https://clark-group.com/our-team/
I never fully understood how ‘Share Premium’ account is utilised in valuations but it does play a large part
Balance sheet values of many companies invested in ?
Can anyone elaborate? Is it ‘goodwill’ in another form ?
The other thing that people are missing is that Bremont is a British company with a mainly British market and it is only recently that the company has made a consolidated effort to project into Asia and America so I do think that whilst we all have opinions and desires as to how the business will end up. You do need to wait, if it fails it fails at least they tried, which is more than can be said for many who are negative Nelly on here.
RIAC
Written like a man with some skin in the game...Pretty hard to miss their Britishyness, it used to be one of their main USP's after all, the plucky maverick underdog trope, better to try and fail than never to have tried before etc, etc...hadn't realised they never made a profit though until someone mentioned it on the thread...isn't that in itself confirmation of failure, now the undeniable fact the Brothers English have had to/ chose to sell out to a venture cap and ceded their positions of authority just hammers the point home I'd have thought...plus of course the new fella disparaging features like the Trip tick case, change of direction, logo, etc...Though heck be of good cheer maybe the 'authentic' pre sell out Bremont's will rise in value.
Last edited by Passenger; 18th April 2024 at 08:45.
Very British to prefer the previous version of something before they mucked it up. The brand has reached its destiny.
And the glorious failure narrative that's been floated by monkey there, does have a strong British military, historic, cultural/poetic theme ''Forward, the light brigade''...fit's the former BREMONT, all that gimmicky putting literal historical bit's and bobs in watches...marvellous, destiny done.
Yup, for a while it had a USP, now it hasn't - another brand in a field full of brands.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
what is it about people on internet forums who think that a company not showing a profit is a sign of failure. In the financial world it's actually the company ideal as then there are no taxes to be paid. A quick example, Manchester United football club didn't make a profit for the last four financial years with a gross debt of £990 million! Well that's the end of them according to the internet.
Quite so, silly me.
I know nothing of the football business
Profit or no profit, good business model or not, the new models look shite and are way to expensive.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
But if you don't make a profit, your investors need to be convinced that the profit they are chasing will be realised at some stage otherwise they'll pull the plug. For me, bringing in a new CEO and appearing to change the brand direction completely against a backdrop of a cooling down of the luxury watch market isn't a great sign...but then again, I'm dreadful at investing so I'm probably wrong!
on the face of it I would agree. There again, there can be ulterior motives for investors that the general public might not know about. Then of course, we really don't have a clue what Bremonts future might be. The watches might sell like hot cakes to the average clueless high street watch buyer.
I'm hoping for the opposite. Quite fancy a half price Fury.
Not my bag as watches, reckon you could do alright though, with the romance, the dream gone...can the watches themselves justify, hold their prices, seems doubtful.
Last edited by Passenger; 18th April 2024 at 10:11.
The old watches can at half price. I've never bought a Bremont at full RRP.
To be fair very few watches hold their value. Will be interesting to see what happens on the used market.
you're kidding me? really? I've had to take a moment there it was such a shock.
I can’t believe there’s so many marketing geniuses on here, I am
Amazed the Swiss watch world hasn’t been taken over by one of you !
RIAC
Hardly anyone has said they will definitely do badly. Their saturation marketing might well see them do well.
And they have been saturating all of the (admittedly few) Social Media that I use.
No-one's claiming marketing genius here.
What most here are complaining about is the dumbing down of the spec, the withdrawal from commitments to bring watchmaking and assembly here to the UK, the generic nature of many of the new watches, etc etc.
Everything to do with the offer and the company, rather than the marketing.
And people are expressing personal taste when it comes to the re-bland.
And it is not just people here, lots of others elsewhere are similarly bemused.
Cerrato may be the man who credits himself with the genius launch of the Black Bay, but that always looked like a popular move. This doesn't.
But you can be sure he will use his own marketing genius to make the most of this move.
TBH, I'd rather take style advice from someone in an XXL Belstaff & size 6 shoes than somebody who looks like this.
I'd even go as far to say that I'd equally prefer to take the same advice from the pair of public school wideboys that are the English brothers.
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
Better make sure your watch matches your lightsaber.
You made it sound a tawdry, unpleasant, unappealing place to be, in an earlier post tbh, why bother
''But to be honest, that’s the majority of the luxury watch world they’re all fur coat and no knickers. guys cutting about in big fancy watches and cars that are leased and houses they don’ not own. All false fame and fortune''
Last edited by Passenger; 18th April 2024 at 19:57.
Its not unpleasant but if it projects a image of superiority which others aspire to at all costs in some cases it can be unpleasant or toxic. The late great Bob Marley sums it up perfectly when he is asked what its like to be a rich manYou made it sound a tawdry, unpleasant place to be in an earlier post tbh, why bother
''But to be honest, that’s the majority of the luxury watch world they’re all fur coat and no knickers. guys cutting about in big fancy watches and cars that are leased and houses they don’ not own. All false fame and fortune''
RIAC
Possibly a bit drafty too, absence of nik naks...
Gotta say you're still not selling it.,'' unpleasant or toxic'', no ta, had me fill.
It may expand the reach of the typically UK brand to a wider market. Personally I like the brand. I know the exec and have always been well supported by them, they offered me a job a couple of years ago! Looks like I made the right decision not going but I want them to do well and give something to the market, sadly thats not our market anymore but another generation might embrace it we will see.
RIAC
To be fair TAM has always jumped on anything negative that was said about Bremont, to the point I believed at one time he was working for them in a non-technical capacity.
It’s interesting he has even taking the fight to former employees. Even if they are (both?) disgruntled, there is usually a reason if 2 watch enthusiasts leave a company.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I've addressed this already. I joined after 15 years in oil and gas for a new challenge. Took a big pay cut, enjoyed my time there, had input into a lot of things as a WIS I never imagined I would, didn't like the direction things were going during covid, left to go back to my previous employer.
The only thing I am disgruntled about is how former employees (excluding me) were treated by new management and the direction the company is now taking.
I agree with you on TAM, I'm almost sure that he and possibly some others on different forums were paid by Bremont to keep a clean image on internet forums.
Last edited by MrBanks; 25th April 2024 at 11:46.
Interesting perspective. As 'sweets' has just commented, for some unknown reason there have been a lot of Bremont haters on here and as I like the brand, yes, for the most part I would defend them. I liked the fact that they were British, supported a British workforce, I liked quite a number of their watches and I liked that they were pushing the idea of bringing more manufacturing into the UK. That was primarily under the lead of the founders. Unfortunately things seem to have now changed and if you watch my posts as you purport to do then you will have seen that I'm less supportive of the current brand direction and range.
as it happens there are a number of other watches I like from other brands. Christopher Ward (JasH Bel Canto in particular, just a shame it was so limited), UN, Breguet, Farer etc.
as far as I'm aware, I haven't 'taken the fight' to any former employees and commented on MrBanks posts for reasons that I've explained in this thread.
MrBanks doesn't come across as disgruntled, much less as bitter, but more as someone who has seen how the sausage is made.
If it's any consolation Smiths watches were a loss-making operation all through the 1950s and '60s. Plus ca change.
And look how that worked out for them…
What, in 50 years' time Timefactors will be making them? Well, I guess that's kind of already happened: the new Bremonts carry the name but not much, if any, of the DNA. Perhaps Eddie's Smiths are closer to originals, at least in spirit, than these
I never much cared for Bremont's actual offerings but I wished them well in their aim of bringing watchmaking back to the UK. Seems like that ain't gonna happen now.
What's happened at Bremont is a symptom of a wider malaise. Things have changed since 2010 -- heck, since 2020. The watch market is definitely softening. It's not a South Sea bubble bursting, nor Tulip Fever breaking -- I'm not expecting a crash -- but unsustainable prices and, in the longer term, dodgy demographics, mean that the high has peaked.
Imho the days of watches as good investments are over. Buy what what you like and will wear but don't expect them to be appreciating assets.
It was probably poorly worded. What I meant was that TAM had implied before that he was disgruntled and I was making the point that even if both him and Gary were, the fact that 2 obvious watch enthusiasts had left was a sign in itself.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Wouldn’t surprise me. The regular posts on social media a few years back from Craniotes when Red Bar was in its infancy would make even Hodinkee blush.
Ah well, how sad, never mind, enough to choose from when it all goes pear shaped.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
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