Reply With QuoteBought a new laptop last night with this installed. So far, I am gradually getting used to it. I am not in love with it yet, but some of the features are useful, and I think with more getting used to it I'll like it.
At least Windows 8 avoids the skeuomorphism trap. :)
Best wishes,
Bob
Bought a new laptop last night with this installed. So far, I am gradually getting used to it. I am not in love with it yet, but some of the features are useful, and I think with more getting used to it I'll like it.
Partly but even with W8 SKU-proliferation is not gone: The media addon pack adds to complicated and there's still a somewhat confusing mix of what can be bought retail, OEM, enterprise. It's slightly better than W7 was. Only slightly.Originally Posted by rfrazier
From Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeuomorphism
A skeuomorph /ˈskjuːəmɔrf/ [skyoo-uh-mawrf], or skeuomorphism (Greek: skeuos—vessel or tool, morphe—shape) is a design element of a product that imitates design elements functionally necessary in the original product design, but which have become ornamental in the new design.
Best wishes,
Bob
Ubuntu. My favourite OS. Been using it for a good long time now. Love the way you can make the look and feel suit you.
Linux... Isn't it great. by Burbage Photography, on Flickr
I've decided that I'm going to stick with Ubuntu for general use and Win 7 for games / photoshop.
What are those toolbars in your screenshot above ? Is it Cairo dock ?
LOL, and there I was thinking it was a reference to excessive numbers of SKUs. ;-)
its mainly produced for touchscreen,stick with windows 7,so i have been told
Bought a new laptop on Saturday with Win8 installed, I so wish I'd boughtit with win7... It's doing my head in. Clearly meant for tablets. I'm actually quite angry...
Now I am trying to find out how I can downgrade to Win7, apparently Microsoft will let you do that. This in itself shows how much confidence they have in the product!
It is Cairo dock. Really nice to use.
I use The Gimp for photo editing now - just as good as Photoshop in most ways that matter.
Perhaps the ultimate oxymoron........................
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
And so it goes on and on...About 4 years ago I bought a new pc from dell which gave you the choice of the relatively new vista or good old winxp. Due to some well documented network issues with vista, and the fact that the interface was a joke, guess which option I chose?
MS replaced vista fairly quickly (after taking an amazingly long time to develop it) and have spent he last few years trying to make up the lost sales. Winxp is still very popular, much to their annoyance.
And so it goes on and on...About 4 years ago I bought a new pc from dell which gave you the choice of the relatively new vista or good old winxp. Due to some well documented network issues with vista, and the fact that the interface was a joke, guess which option I chose?
MS replaced vista fairly quickly (after taking an amazingly long time to develop it) and have spent he last few years trying to make up the lost sales. Winxp is still very popular, much to their annoyance.
is it really so good?
It works, and is reasonably stable by now. Vista was 'different' to XP, which seemed to put a lot of people off. I'm not sure how many home users had proper "it's a bug, it doesn't work properly" type problems with it. Windows 7 (which to the average home user looks and operates exactly the same as Vista) is acknowledged to be far superior to XP (for home users).
Many businesses are sticking with XP because of the cost and logistics of changing. IT departments don't like change.
I don't like radical, unneeded change.
Last night I spent an hour playing with a new version of Enlightenment window manager + compositor. The default background looks like striped Christmas present wrapping, or the covering of a Victorian chair. The windows vibrate and bounce a bit when the mouse gets focus, desktop icons vibrate, widgets icons at the bottom pulsate, etc. It is almost like the desktop has become a pulsating, heaving life. For me, it was a bit too much like the beginning of something one would have expected in Cronenberg's Videodrome. I felt an immediate urge to pull the power socket out of the wall to save my life and/or my soul. Anti-enlightenment, more like.
In the end, I went back to my minimalist setup. :)
Best wishes,
Bob
Last edited by rfrazier; 1st November 2012 at 11:08.
Try Start8 from Stardock. You shouldn't have to granted but it will give you the best of both worlds.
I've just taken delivery of a very good Dell Outlet machine with Win 7... But I had Win 8 preview on its predecessor. Stick with Win 8 and give it a chance. Remember, the Tiles are basically the Start menu set out as tiles. Access to drives and so on is through the Explorer icon in the Task bar left, though I've no idea why the made shutting down such a multi-press operation.
Win 8 is lightning fast on older tech. Booting in 30s with a four-year-old machine is very good. It's a sound OS but the front end is quirky. I will admit, however, I'm not planning on buying Win 8 for this new one soon.
Others that seem good are StartMenu7, ViStart and Classic Shell. A slightly outdated by now list at http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...=1#post2186834.
I can recommend Classic Shell. I've spent a couple of hours trying to like the Metro interface on my latop but, IMHO, it's simply not suited to productive use of a desktop or laptop.
With Classic Shell it's like a Windows 7 Service Pack and lightning fast but it's just not enough of a difference to warrant an upgrade from Windows 7 - again in my opinion.
I'd put my life savings on the fact that business will not take to Windows 8.
Y'see, I'm starting to think the opposite. The simplicity and functionality of the tile interface is appealing, and with the added bonus of being able to lock out the desktop mode so that it only displays and publishes applications that the administrator decides upon will be vastly important to business users.
From a support persepctive, removing any interaction the user has with "back end" processes, Run command, Accesories, and various other functions and just giving them a predefined tile-set is VERY valuable - very much like the Citrix ICA published application front end that business like so much.
So, don't give away your life savings just yet...
Then, look at the Surface Pro, that can seemlessly interact with your Win8 desktop, and furthermore the valuable enterprise architecture in place behind Win8Phone that way outstrip the dying RIM/Blackberry solutions.
Win 8, Surface Pro and Win8Phone out-do all current offerings from Apple, Rim and Android as a complete enterprise package...
Oh, it's pretty for sure. But just not very suitable or useable on a desktop or laptop. the fact that it is visually and aesthetically appealing does not make it a practical platform in practical use, excpet on a tablet. In actual useability terms I find it just gets in the way, and I'm not a newcomer to it. But then I'm mainly using desktop apps, and that's because the work I do and the way I do it are not suited to the very limtied Metro/tiles/one-or-two-at-a-time paradigm. This paradigm will of course suit many users -- that's why tablets are taking off! Metro is clearly optimised for this mass market. But it's not suitable for more complex working or longer working sessions.
But desktops and applications can be locked down anyway. Metro or Windows 8 aren't needed to do this.
Sure, but that is what security is all about. It's been there in NT since 1993. :-)
I agree about that. This is Microsoft's clear strategic offering, although it seems that Windows 8 will never get much traction in corporates who have settled on Windows 7 for now.
However, whilst Metro offers benefits to certain types of users (and this is going to the majority of users), its advantages are not as ubiquitous as you suggest above. It is severely limited for many types of more complex user from whom the touch/tablet form factor is not suitable and, as I mentioned elsewhere, may never be fully suitable. Tablets and touch ideally suit many users but they are not the be all and end all replacement for keyboard, mouse and more complex UI paradigms.
A bit of searching round the net and it can be very easy to use, once set up properly it is faster than Win 7.
My tuppence:
Installed on my main PC and Macbook air both as upgrades for Windows 7. Cheap as chips at £25. Twice as fast (apparently down to ditching the aero interface although I'm not sure I can believe that made it so slow). Everything works. Easy and quick to install- took me about half an hour for each including downloading the 2.7(?)GB file.
So all in all I'm very pleased and would recommend it. As part of installing it from the net it will tell you what should and shouldn't work so you can be prepared. It also allows you to do a clean install or save your settings and programs.
I'm an OS X man by heart as I've found every version of Windows hopelessly unreliable and complicated until Windows 7 which has always been stable for me. Now I see them as equals.
It's this I don't understand. The UI is a direct replacement for the Start Menu, and you can add anything that was previously on the "Classic" Start Menu onto the UI, so how is it not useable or suitable?
The fact that it "caches" (I'm not sure how it does it, but it's the best description, a la Apple) apps for fast switching without the overhead just makes it more useable than any previous version of Windows. Start up and shutdown are fast, the UI is simpler, it caches apps better for switching, the Windows key can be used to fast switch between apps, UI and desktop mode - it's amazing IMO.
My only realistic complaint, other than it taking me some time to find my way around it, is that it doesn't work well with a laptop touchpad, albeit it's perfect with a mouse. Trying to scroll the UI with a touchpad activates the sidepanel for some reason, wheras the mouse doesn't.
I have a demo version of Windows 8 installed on our media PC and I'm certainly happy with the speed of the thing. The only comparison with Windows 7 I can make is my work laptop and that runs like a dog but I suspect that's more to do with our rubbish corporate build that configures every application to be as chatty as possible to other devices on the network and especially when it's not on the network.
My only observation is that it's unlikely to have any speed wow factor once 16 dozen windows updates and service packs have been installed in a years time. Anytime I rebuild one of my home PCs with Windows XP they are always super fast once you've completed a base-build however once connected to the internet for all of the security patches etc they slow down pretty quickly, as it were.
Well no, it's not a "direct replacement for the Start Menu". It does not have the same functionality. Differences:
a) It requires full screen switching. This is an incredible, headache inducing annoyance and hindrance to smooth usage. The Start Menu does not need this. The Start Screen works with my work, not against it as does the Start Screen.
b) It is incredibly space ineffecient. Using the full screen to replace a smaller menu is functionally unnecessary and harmful to efficient management. I just don't need full screen all the time. That why we have windows.
c) No, it cannot replace "anything that was previously on the Classic Start Menu". It is different and works differently. Check it out in detail: It does not have the configurability options that the Start Menu has (and which I use all the time). I can't put submenus on it like I can on the Start Menu, I can't have it display a list of search results while not taking up the whole screen like I can with the Start Menu, etc. In short, the Start Screen is not compatible with complex working scenarios, which is precisely why I choose desktops and laptops over a tablet. (On a tablet I'd love the Metro Start Screen!).
Thus the Start Screen simply works differently and, for me, as a desktop/laptop user, it works less well. Indeed, this has been the consistent complaint to Microsoft throughout the preview and beta programme from everyone who tried it on desktops and laptops. It's undeniably great on a tablet. Just inappropriate for most users' purposes of desktop or laptops who have have a more than simplistic (i.e. suitable for tablet) use case.
In summary, whilst the Start Screen is clearly a good idea for certain form factos and use cases, it is not a functionally beneficial replacement for the Start Menu where you're not solely using full screen Metro apps.
The Start Screen does not do this. It's nothing to do with it, per se. This is a function of the WinRT API. WinRT apps (which run in the UI formerly known as Metro) simply run in the background and can be brought back to the foreground. They are coded to respond to Windows telling them they need to go to sleep or respond.
It's clever but not that clever. Have you never minimised an app on the Windows desktop? All versions of Windows have what can be referred to as "fast switching" capability between running apps since... well, Windows 3 at least. Whilst such apps don't shut themselves down since the Win32 API does not have that functionality, it is nevertheless identical from a user experience perspective. The 'shut down on command by Windows' functionality in WinRt is only needed because it is predicated on the idea that it will be running on processing-limited and power-limited tablets, which is not such a severe limit on desktops or laptops.
In short, don't get carried away by a new way of doing (introduced due to resource limitations that are not relevant to many users) what Windows has been doing for about two decades. ;-)
Yes, Metro is simpler for simpler use case. As above, that is what makes it a hindrance for more complex use cases.
Regarding speed, I've bought, as I noted above, a new fast i7 laptop with Win 7 Ultimate preinstalled. It's much slower at loading and a little slower at shutting down than my previous four-year-old laptop, with a fair bit of stuff on it and which had a Win8 demo on.
In a shocking development, my company has just announced that they are upgrading from Windows 7 and Office 2010, to Windows 8 and Office 2013 [*]. I think it's a rather bold move, personally.
[*]There is a 'two speed' IT system. The vast majority of physical desktops and laptops run XP and Office 2010. A few have Windows 7. Some users also have access to a virtual desktop over VMware. It is the virtual desktop that is being upgraded to Windows 8. I think they're going roll out the virtual desktop to everyone. They are also starting to push BYOD. Interestingly, the corporate phone and tablet are iPhone and iPad, with no mention of using Windows 8 devices.
Two applications that I use on a daily basis don't work on the virtual desktop, so it's all a bit academic to me.
One thing I've discovered about Office 2013 is that Access 2013 cannot open replicated databases. This has put a hard upgrade limit on Access for our company.
So what do people think of Windows 8 now that they have had a chance to settle with it?
I have a difficult decision to make. Whether to go Macbook or Ultrabook (would be Macbook Retina for me and 13" Macbook for my dad), never had Apple stuff before but I work away and need something very stable for my Dad. Decisions, decisions...
Must also say that Linux Mint 13 has given my netbook a major lease of life too.
Well in the end I bought my dad a nice shiney Sony Laptop with Windows 8 on it.
And to be honest I have been reasonably impressed with Windows 8. It's fast, sharp and the apps are reasonably good, espectially for sports based ones.
What we are now seeing is the touch screen laptops coming out now and this is actually a big plus with windows 8, especially for the occasional user like my dad is. A bit more imporvement in the app side of things will improve the experience no end.
I'll be honest and think apple have missed a trick with not putting touchscreen on their Macbooks, although this may be in the pipeline. Windows 8 undoubtably is improved by a touchscreen. I cannot see businesses adopting it quickly though, as alan2273 says it can be used quickly but just doesn't really have the business feel to it yet and not what a poweruser wants.
Overall I have been impressed with it and think that now plenty of people have had a play with it it will become much more widely liked*
*and I had the early Beta download and disliked it at that point.
Until this week I have been impressed with Windows 8 on my desktop. Perhaps quicker than 7 and no real disadvantage. Hardly use the Apps and stick with the old desktop which is only a key press away.
However, this week it began freezing on the start screen. I restored to an earlier point which then meant I had to reinstall recently purchased Photoshop Elements. This gave an installation error and I ended up having to re-install Windows. Wasted ~2 days on this. Perhaps not entirely Windows fault and the Adobe support is abysmal.
I am happy with Windows 7, it works and I understand it.
Why on earth would I pay to upgrade to software that I neither need nor understand that is NOT desktop or laptop friendly? A no brainer for me, Microsoft can shove it!
I find Windows 8 OK, it seems to pickup my network drives really easily.
With Windows 7 is sometimes did, but most of the time I had to map the drives??
But you must get a 3rd party start button, because normally in desktop mode you can only run something showing on the desktop. Also if you want to shut down/restart you have to go back to the tablet screen and do it from there somehow.
Anyway, the 3rd part start buttom (works exactly as it does in Windows7) is called Vistart, it's free and available from here http://lee-soft.com/vistart/
Thanks for that as can't remember the last time I read a thread that I had LESS understanding of.................
We need an "Idiots guide to Windows 8" thread for some of us
The reason I upgraded to Win8, was the laptop was using Vista, so for £14.99 it was a no brainer.I am happy with Windows 7, it works and I understand it.
Why on earth would I pay to upgrade to software that I neither need nor understand that is NOT desktop or laptop friendly? A no brainer for me, Microsoft can shove it!
I do ctrl+alt+delete which gives the power button.
Been more than happy with win7 been really reliable for me so see no reason to upgrade to 8, although saying that well worth upgrading from vista
Let's face it, would could be worse than Visa :):)
It'll be interesting to see how many Tablet manufacturer's use Windows8. I can't see the point in spending £500+ on the Microsoft Surface as it won't run desktop applications..you'll have to pay almost £900 for that.
One annoying thing with Windows 8 is that a lot of the apps on the mosaic screen are not linked to the desktop equivalents eg explorer amd their associated default apps are different..
What's so bad about Vista? Lots of people slag it off, so what are the specific problems with it that cause all the dislike?
It's pitifully slow & bloated compared with Window7 or 8, driver support no where near as good either. It just shows how good WinXP still is to be honest, probably why they kept it going but now I think Windows7 & 8 are a lot better and more stable.
A chap called Jakob Nielsen runs a company advising on computer usability. He recently did a good piece on the Windows 8 Surface tablet. Not happy ready for Microsoft. http://www.nngroup.com/articles/wind...ing-usability/
His main gripe is that it tries to force the mobile style of interation on the user, even when a desktop metaphor is more appropriate. Like having a multiple windows open together in the Office environment.
That's just the trouble with the Microsoft Surface, it's a bog standard tablet running a mobile style OS relying on apps - it doesn't run proper desktop software - so you might aswell just buy a decent Android tablet or even an ipad and save yourself some money.
If Microsoft really want to grab market share they need to slash the price of their tablets and Nokia mobiles. Relying on Desktop loyalty for people to want the same sort of OS on other devices is asking too much IMHO!
Yay - I've finally managed to get my fingerprint scanner working with Windows 8... no more remembering passwords for me :)
By the time they had got to SP2 with Vista, it was a very good OS, the reason I upgraded was Vista is getting on a bit now.
And Win 8 is much faster than Vista.
What I cannot understand is for the average desktop user, it is only the same as having icons all over your old type desktop, one click and you load the program.
And if you need to get back to the Merto interface you just press the Win key on the keyboard.
I'll stick with W7 for the time being until 8 gets some proper reviews.
Where did you get it £14.99 can only see it for £24.99? tx
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Where did you get it £14.99 can only see it for £24.99? tx
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Where did you get it £14.99 can only see it for £24.99? tx
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Where did you get it £14.99 can only see it for £24.99? tx
Where did you get this for £14.99? Can only find it for £24.99.... tx?
Indeed. This has been the major, overriding complaint about W8's UI style from the beginning of the technical previews. The tiles metaphor is great for touch-centric mobile device but largely out of place of desktops and laptops. With Steven Sinofsky's departure I suspect we'll see an eventual retrenchment from this 'must-impose-touch-metaphor-everywhere' strategy.
I have to say the new Windows OS looks really good on the Lumia phones. I would seriously consider one of those instead of an iphone. I think that that's where Windows 8 might end up, with a new 'desktop' flavour being introduced for non touch-PC users.
I did the upgrade through the Microsoft site and payed using Paypal.
After just checking the details, I had £10.02 in there so the cost showed up as £14.97.
Still worth it though.
Last edited by alan2273; 28th December 2012 at 11:33. Reason: spelling.
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