RESOLVED - problems with new watch from Omega Boutique

[gcleminson]

Guys
I could do with a little advice on the best way to proceed here.

I'll try and be brief :-) : I saw some pics recently of one of the Ltd Ed Speedmasters released last year - the Apollo 11 45th anniversary version (titanium ans sedna gold case), and despite the obvious shortcomings (price for what it is in comparison with other speedmasters; lack of bracelet) I was pretty smitten - seemed to tick all the right boxes for me: Titanium (my preference).. Could easily be dressed up or down.. Appealed to the inner geek with the clever (and stunning) laser-cut dial..

It seems to have been one of the more sought-after of the recent Ltd Ed speedy models and there was nothing much doing on the used market (Chrono 24, WatchRecon, etc), so I made enquiries with local WOS and Goldsmiths, but the same story from both - unavailable.

So then last week I dropped into Bluewater briefly and poked my nose into the Omega Boutique. I didn't even bother asking about the speedy as I know they're part of the Goldsmiths group too, but lo and behold there was one sat in a cabinet in the middle of the store, which apparently they weren't expecting in and didn't even know where it had come from. Believe it or not after 8 years of being a member on here this is the first time I've ever bought a brand new watch from an AD so it was slightly unfamiliar territory, but long story short I bought it there & then. The following morning I took it out for a proper look over and noticed to my absolute horror that there was some damage to the gold bezel which I (and the sales chap) hadn't spotted. I immediately emailed the store, as it was early a.m. before they'd opened. An hour or two later I had a call from the same sales chap, who was quite non-commital but suggested I bring it it for them to take a look. I took some photos which I emailed him, then the following morning drove over to the store with the watch.

I met the store manager who was great and I felt immediately reassured - after looking at the damage I was told he would refund me £100 there and then for the inconvenience, and was also promised a free-of-charge case refurb at any time in the future. We discussed my options, which were a full refund; for them to try to source a new replacement; an attempted fix by them of the damage (which he'd need to take advice on); or the option of me keeping it with a suitable adjustment on price which he'd need to agree with their management. He mentioned a previous instance where they'd significantly discounted a watch after it picked up 'shop-floor' damage, so although this wasn't my preferred option at least I knew that if they couldn't turn up a replacement and I decided I really wanted one there was some scope for negotiation.

At this point I guess I should stress that the damage is quite minor in the great scheme of things (only just visible when looking at the side of the case), but then it was supposed to be a brand new watch.. Pics below, cos I know you'll lynch me if I don't.. :-)

Having asked them to try to find another watch for me, they kept hold of the first one and a couple of days later I had an email saying that they'd found one in their Newcastle store which was on it's way down to them. I phoned the following day to check their Easter opening times and spoke to Darren the manager again, who then informed me that the watch had arrived but was in an unsaleable condition, having much worse damage than the first one; and they definitely wouldn't be able to find another.

He'd since taken advice on the repair, and basically what he was offering was that they could attempt to polish out that part of the bezel to smooth off the damage, but they couldn't guarantee it would be 100% back to new. He offered me another case refurb in the future, and a £200 refund. When I clarified if this was in addition to the £100 goodwill he'd already promised I was told that no, that included the £100 he'd already offered, so that basically amounted to a £100 discount for damage to a 4.5k watch, which I was less pleased about as the 'no-strings' goodwill gesture had now been amalgamated into the reduction offer if I chose to keep it. I pressed on this but he was pretty firm about the level of price reduction. He told me that it would just be sold to a member of staff if I didn't want it..

I've left it that I'll have a think and come back to them, but it feels their stance has become slightly more bullish now, having been unable to get me a replacement.

Between the 300 - 275 on the Tachy scale - not visible from the front.








this one shows the damage to pusher and bezel. Shot with macro, so looks more noticeable than it is.



So my thoughts/questions are these:

Is the amount they've offered to refund me reasonable should I choose to keep it?

What happens if I let them try to fix it and they stuff it up, or I'm not happy with the result?

I'm feeling a bit wary now on how easily this model seem to pick up damage, particularly as the sedna gold is a new material for them, and they've confirmed the gold bezel is not independantly replaceable and is integral to the case. I'm used to Titanium, but not all Ti watches are the same - is this model particularly susceptible to marks? Any input from anyone who owns one of these specific models would be gratefully received.

Thanks for listening
Graham

[aldfort]

To be clear it seems the store are offering:

1) full refund and they take the watch back.
2) £200 off agreed price plus "help" with the cost of future servicing by way of picking up the cost of refurbishing the case.

Not sure there is much more they can do. I think you have 3 options.

1) accept option 1 above.
2) accept option 2 above.
3) go into the store face to face and see if you can improve the deal.

Oh yes - be careful about buyers remorse. If you wear a watch it'll pick up damage sooner or later, it's a fact of life. So this watch would have acquired some damage while in your ownership anyway if you choose to keep it. It become a part of the watch and it's history. As to when the damage is too much, well that's a personal thing, only you can decide.
My Zenith, bought in a sale, has v minor shop damage, most of which I polished out with a cape cod. I got a further £100 knocked off when I bought the watch and I'm totally happy with it but again it's simply a personal thing.

[Archduke]

Ask them to order you a new one still in its stickers, or ask for a full refund.

[gshort67]

I don't know what to suggest, but that doesn't seem enough off for the price of the watch. By the way that would drive me mad

[andybaird22]

I think I would ask for a full refund as that seems like too little compensation for the price of the watch

[walkerwek1958]

Gold (or whatever Omega call it) bezels do mark easily, that's one of the drawbacks. I`m amazed that the bezel can`t be replaced separately; frankly I don`t believe it.

This damage looks slight, but in my opinion it will not be possible to completely remove it. It's right on the edge, and there's little scope for taking metal off in both horizontal and vertical planes (the usual trick) to 'lose' the damage on the edge. Can`t be certain without seeing it in the metal, it's hard to get a sense of scale from the pics, but I wouldn`t be optimistic. Sometimes you don`t know till you try with dings like this, but if I was tackling this one I wouldn`t raise the owner's expectations too high.

Personally, I`d be asking for a replacement watch. This has had a knock in my pinion, and the damage has been caused by impact rather than abrasion. At the very least I`d insist on a replacement bezel; I remain unconvinced that it can`t be replaced separately.

This is embarrassing for the store. The damage has happened whilst one of the staff has been handling it. Easiest answer for them is to persuade you to accept a discount.

Moral of the story is to inspect every new watch very carefully; shop-soiled watches are all too common, I turned one down a few years ago in a sale.

Paul

[adesmith]

Ask them to order you a new one still in its stickers, or ask for a full refund.

This!!!!

I wouldn't be paying anywhere near the full amount for that. Its quite a significant mark (dent!).

And as for it being offered to a member of staff......erm can they really afford to buy it on a store workers salary? I smell something in the air!

[diver527]

Get a full refund and walk away. There are plenty more watches around and the whole experience may taint what people look for buying from a AD.

[GrandS]

Full refund. Simple. If they can not offer you an acceptable replacement, then I don't see any other way. They can fix the defective watch but it should then be their property, not yours. The 200 pounds they are offering is a joke. Don't even think about accepting that.

[sundial]

Mandy Rice Davies summed it up nicely. Ask for a full refund and put an end to your worry. Anyone who thinks the damage will polish out satisfactorily needs their bumps feeling.

dunk

[chrisparker]

Given that the bezel isn't replaceable unless the whole case is replaced I'd ask for a refund.

If worn, the bezel will get knocked and if it's made from a soft metal it'll mark, which is fine, if either it can be replaced easily or you can live with scuffs. It seems an impractical watch with a poor design, nice to look at but ultimately not fit for purpose. The Speedmaster is supposed to be a durable and dependable watch, this one isn't.

[DB9yeti]

Doesn't sound like they can order a new one and it doesn't look like that could be removed without compromising the bezel shape.

Full refund and walk away. There will be one on Chrono24 within a few months.

[snowman]

I certainly wouldn't pretend to match Walkerwek's knowledge, but I agree, it looks like that's been knocked or dropped, which might have done other damage not visible externally.

Either get a refund or ask for a full service to correct any damage done internally as well as the dented bezel.

It's easy to get overly precious about watches, but if you buy brand new, you expect brand new.

However, I guess from the AD's POV, you might have dropped the watch on your tiled kitchen floor the day you took it home, so it's tricky for them to be TOO generous. They seem to have been very fair imo.

M

[Petewon]

Not a chance would I accept that at the discount being offered. I'm sure one will pop up soon.

[marksh]

For me its an absolute no brainer , ask for a refund and walk away and then do a bit of research regards getting another one if you really want one as you ll be able to source an EU one at a lot less cash I would have thought .

My advice would be to look at some of the Grey Dealers or start a thread on WT as some on here have saved plenty going this route .

Definitely would get a refund though as it will bug you every time you look at it .

[stateless]

Full refund or better generous discount. 200 pounds is not even 5%. They should give something around 15-20% as whatever they do, the watch will not be in the factory state.

2nd option. If you like the watch, leave it as it is and accept free polishing service in the future. In this case you have a watch you can enjoy. Every watch will pick up scratches so after 2-3 years you can ask them to polish that bezel off.

[Onelasttime]

Personally, I'd return for a full refund. Although the ding is small, knowing it was there on a brand new watch would tip my OCD over the edge.

However, as someone else has said, you will ding it yourself at some point and the offer of £200 and full refurb is £500+ worth, possibly more if they throw in a free movement service with the refurb, so, if you can live with it, and they guarantee a full refurb service including parts and everything else, then that's not a terrible deal.

I'm still finding it astonishing that the second one was even more badly damaged. What's going on with these? Is this new gold just a special type of Omega butter?

[markrlondon]

Watch goes back for full refund. Forget it.

[gcleminson]

If you wear a watch it'll pick up damage sooner or later, it's a fact of life. So this watch would have acquired some damage while in your ownership anyway if you choose to keep it. It become a part of the watch and it's history.

Yep absolutely, I get that. That's how I've tried to rationalise it to myself, but I think it's different when you've done it yourself - there's no-one else to blame, so to speak.

Gold (or whatever Omega call it) bezels do mark easily, that's one of the drawbacks. I`m amazed that the bezel can`t be replaced separately; frankly I don`t believe it.

This damage looks slight, but in my opinion it will not be possible to completely remove it. It's right on the edge, and there's little scope for taking metal off in both horizontal and vertical planes (the usual trick) to 'lose' the damage on the edge. Can`t be certain without seeing it in the metal, it's hard to get a sense of scale from the pics, but I wouldn`t be optimistic. Sometimes you don`t know till you try with dings like this, but if I was tackling this one I wouldn`t raise the owner's expectations too high.

Paul - thanks for your thoughts. I guess being a proprietory blend of gold to get that deep rose colour (ie - gold alloy) then laser-welding becomes much trickier, to match the colour? I'm not thinking so much about this damage, but further down the line when it DOES pick up the inevitable knock..

[walkerwek1958]

The more I look at this the more I find it hard to believe that someone at the AD didn`t know it was there. They've kept quiet about this in the hope that a customer won`t notice.

Speedmaster bezels do pick up marks on the edge, it's the first place to look when checking condition.

And as for the bezel not being replaceable separately, that sounds like bullshit to me. They don`t want to go down that path because it'll be far too costly.

Ask for your money back or a new watch in perfect condition. The AD will have to soak this up, it's their problem. However, the difficulty arises if they try to claim the watch was perfect when it left the store, it then becomes your word against theirs.

Paul

[stateless]

I wouldn't exercise the route of full refund as this is not watch easy to find. However, i find it astonishing that they don't show any flexibility at all at boutique.

You spent on one watch more majority of people earn a month and you expect with item of such high value excellent customer service.

[gcleminson]

The more I look at this the more I find it hard to believe that someone at the AD didn`t know it was there. They've kept quiet about this in the hope that a customer won`t notice.

Speedmaster bezels do pick up marks on the edge, it's the first place to look when checking condition.

And as for the bezel not being replaceable separately, that sounds like bullshit to me. They don`t want to go down that path because it'll be far too costly.

Ask for your money back or a new watch in perfect condition. The AD will have to soak this up, it's their problem. However, the difficulty arises if they try to claim the watch was perfect when it left the store, it then becomes your word against theirs.

Paul

If what they told me is true then they'd only received it that day or the day before and they hadn't been expecting it, so who knows.

As for the question of where/when the damaged occurred this is what panicked me initially that I couldn't prove it wasn't me, but when I took it back in and the store manager looked at it he immediately said he knew exactly what had happened to it or words to that effect, and was sure it had been done within the company. I don't have this in writing though thinking about it..

Any idea of where I could get a quick answer on whether the bezel can be removed or not? My experience of emailing Omega directly in the past has been mixed. If it turned out it could be replaced I think that might change my mind about things. Stupid question, but is the bezel on a 'normal' speedy replaceable?

As to the % refund, I did negotiate a discount at the time of purchase which equated to around 7% of RRP, so I know that should have no bearing now, but for the shop I think they do have that in mind - perhaps when looking at their margin etc.

[Hammond]

A real tough one. If one is likely to come up for sale privately, at any point, in an unworn condition then I would say take the full refund. But if they're mainly going to be worn examples then they're equally likely to have similar knocks.

I think if the AD was offering an appropriate discount and not the pretty awful token amount that they are then we wouldn't be having this discussion as you'd be sitting pretty with your watch and a nice chunk of change in your pocket. Bit disappointed with their reluctance to discount - this isn't a dead pixel on a Dell monitor, it's a premium watch in relatively exotic materials.

[sundial]

You are digging yourself further into the hole. Best to ask for a full refund and move on.

dunk

[markrlondon]

Any idea of where I could get a quick answer on whether the bezel can be removed or not? My experience of emailing Omega directly in the past has been mixed. If it turned out it could be replaced I think that might change my mind about things. Stupid question, but is the bezel on a 'normal' speedy replaceable?

It seems to me that if you need to rely on this sort of difficult to find information, it's already become too risky. In your position I'd only go with a full refund now.

[midgetda]

Drop me a PM if you like. I am working through an issue with Omega at the moment and would be happy to advise on the route I am taking as it seems to be getting somewhere.

[PickleB]

Can you live with the watch as it is? If you can, only then does it make sense even to consider the discount they're offering. It's up to you whether or not you find it acceptable. I wouldn't. Nor would I factor in the refurbs on offer. Are you a regular customer...no...so how will you be assured of their continued service? How long will the manager be at that store?

I'd have my money back and put the angst and nausea it's caused you down as the price of a lesson learned.

[bitfield]

Ask for your money back or a new watch in perfect condition.

Absolutely this, but if that's the way they handle their stock, I'd be inclined to take the money and go to another shop.

[mart broad]

Full refund and walk away as this will always bug you then start your research on a replacement.

[UKMike]

Full refund! No amount of discount will change the fact that the watch has been dropped at some stage in it's life. I'm not as enamoured of the design as you are though and your view may differ .............. but to me, the watch would remain "tainted" and the pleasure of ownership would be ruined. You could go and buy a Citizen in Argos in better condition than that, at a fraction of the price and equal or better timekeeping! The pursuit of "perfection" and "luxury" is the main reason for buying Omega, and this one doesn't fit the bill.

EDIT: PS, that bezel does look particularly vulnerable to damage, which doesn't bode well for long term ownership.

[uwtc]

There's one in the window of the Regent Street boutique.

[trisdg]

Agree with the comments here... get the refund

It might be hard as you've got the watch in your hands, but I'm sure you'll be glad you did in a few weeks/months down the line.

[PJ S]

In case you opt for just handing it back for a refund...

http://www.chrono24.com/en/omega/spe...-id3179577.htm
http://www.chrono24.com/en/omega/spe...-id2930386.htm
http://www.chrono24.com/en/omega/spe...-id3235815.htm
http://www.chrono24.com/en/omega/spe...-id2906114.htm - private seller
http://www.chrono24.com/en/omega/spe...-id3197326.htm - private seller

You could use the commercial sellers' prices to negotiate against the private sellers'.

You could contact Omega to ascertain the actual cost or a ballpark figure for fixing it, and then seeing if they'll refund you that amount.
At least that way, you'll know it's been fixed and returned to how it was when it originally left the factory.

[sundial]

As only 1969 were officially released the chances of sourcing a replacement bezel are probably slim - and even if sourced would still be a fragile liability with another 'ding' waiting to happen.

dunk

[Riley]

It may be worth bearing in mind that if it goes back to Omega for a service you could be waiting around 12 weeks to get it back during which time you could have found a replacement.

[beechcustom]

FWIW the damage to this bezel is identical to the damage that occurred to a watch that I accidentally dropped onto a concrete floor at waist hight a while ago. Full refund please chief.

[andrew]

FWIW the damage to this bezel is identical to the damage that occurred to a watch that I accidentally dropped onto a concrete floor at waist hight a while ago. Full refund please chief.

+many more - don't even know why this is up for consideration; full price watch from a fragrant boutique and there's a chunk out of the solid gold bezel. Take it back so fast and ignore their ministrations so far it makes your head spin!

[gcleminson]

A real tough one. If one is likely to come up for sale privately, at any point, in an unworn condition then I would say take the full refund. But if they're mainly going to be worn examples then they're equally likely to have similar knocks.

I think if the AD was offering an appropriate discount and not the pretty awful token amount that they are then we wouldn't be having this discussion as you'd be sitting pretty with your watch and a nice chunk of change in your pocket. Bit disappointed with their reluctance to discount - this isn't a dead pixel on a Dell monitor, it's a premium watch in relatively exotic materials.

Nail on the head.

I think I can see where the advice is going. It's just killing me, as I thought I'd finally found the perfect watch (pun absolutely not intended..)

EDIT: PJ S - thanks for doing some legwork on Chrono24 for me - I swear I looked the other day and only saw one, well over RRP..

[markrlondon]

It's just killing me, as I thought I'd finally found the perfect watch (pun absolutely not intended..)

Did you see this?

There's one in the window of the Regent Street boutique.

[Rodder]

Every time you look at it you'll notice the ding. You pay a premium to buy new for a perfect condition watch, more than 100 quid ( 100 is just for the ball ache). Take it back.

[gcleminson]

Did you see this?

Thanks yes, just phoned them - must have been last week - it's gone.

[markrlondon]

Thanks yes, just phoned them - must have been last week - it's gone.

:-(

[gcleminson]

It may be worth bearing in mind that if it goes back to Omega for a service you could be waiting around 12 weeks to get it back during which time you could have found a replacement.

That was another thing - they were proposing that the repair be done 'in-house'. He said they have someone who is omega-approved, but this is Goldsmiths at the end of the day not Omega themselves so I don't know how much to trust them with that. I guess that's another reason against taking the risk.

[logan2z]

There's a brand new one at an AD here in California, but I'm not sure how practical that is for you considering the potential import costs. PM me if you're interested.

[stateless]

That was another thing - they were proposing that the repair be done 'in-house'. He said they have someone who is omega-approved, but this is Goldsmiths at the end of the day not Omega themselves so I don't know how much to trust them with that. I guess that's another reason against taking the risk.

That means full refund to me. if they do something wrong and try to return it to you, what can you do? they are always able to say that you asked for that.

[gcleminson]

I've emailed asking them to refund me.

Thanks for the advice and wise words everyone. Much appreciated, as always.

[dandanthewatchman]

I've emailed asking them to refund me.

Thanks for the advice and wise words everyone. Much appreciated, as always.

good decision

you would never be able to look at it and have anything but remorse

[soundood]

I've emailed asking them to refund me.

Thanks for the advice and wise words everyone. Much appreciated, as always.

and once you receive that refund, go round there and,





Poo through their Letterbox
Poo through their Letterbox
Poo through their Letterbox
Poo through their Letterbox
Poo through their Letterbox
Poo through their Letterbox
Poo through their Letterbox

[webvan]

Well done! The fact that the manager said he knew exactly what had happened would have seriously non-plussed me! Did you ask him for details?

[Tomaitch]

Refund , refund refund . More than likely the AD will put the watch back in the cabinet for sale as they did before . It needs to go back to Omega for a full check up and bezel replacement regardless as it has quite obviously been dropped . I do not believe the bezel is part of the case either .
Lucky you spotted the damage early on !