Reply With QuoteYup, it's a thing. And quite a scary thing. Looks like the only thing they failed on with this is hardening the steel.
I started reading this and my jaw dropped ...
http://blog.tc-sub.com/2012/06/tc-fa...ht-master.html
Yup, it's a thing. And quite a scary thing. Looks like the only thing they failed on with this is hardening the steel.
Scary looking stuff - the glee is palpable at all the people who are going to ripped off as these are passed off as 'Gen' down the line.
Just did a few side-by-side internet image comparisons and the fake looks a little too rounded in places - though that could be passed away as "wear" to the unwary...
That said, its a convincing thing. If it was on my wrist, though, Id know it was fake, and that would really bother me - though there are many who would wear it without a thought - other than the money theyd "saved" on a real rolex...
I couldn't read all of that.
Makes me feel ill!
Mark
poor bugger thats some serious money to be out of pocket
The article is truly scary !!!
That appears to be an old review, they may have improved it further.!
interesting stuff as scary as it is, how little money can buy you a near perfect copy
Ok so what's next? A Star Trek replicator?
Rolex.Yacht-Master.New.
It doesn't appear to have the RRR engraving on the rehaut, or have I missed it?
A bit of a giveaway that not everything is quite right.
In addition to the lack of Rolex on rehaut, no mention of the crown logo in the glass itself which is also a solid indicator of genuine v fake. Also, the fact that the crown in the glass is also not flat, but rather angled, means it's that much harder for the counterfeiters.
True in one sense - no crown logo in the glass, then certainly a rep (unless a vintage lookalike or whatever). But a lot of replicas, or fakes if you prefer, do have the crown logo etched into the glass, and often it's quite well done.Originally Posted by Fas
These are the exact type of fakes I have a real problem with. Designed to deceive.
I have no problem with the more comical fakes. The Turkey Breitling's with a mish-mash of parts.
$600 is a lot of money for a fake too, but then it appears to have a genuine ETA movement.
Why do they stamp up the inner case back with their spurious marks when to see them you'd have to look at the obviously non - Rolex movement?
Cheers,
Neil.
From the same site, a newer one... http://blog.tc-sub.com/2015/08/tc-el...ter-16622.html
I've been able to spot obvious and more recently, medium-effort fakes thanks to the knowledge garnered on this forum. But from you more seasoned guys, how good is this really? Not counting the obvious movement of course.
All, does everyone realise there's a whole world out there of replica (fake) watches and large internet forums dedicated to discussing them ?
I like the look of some of the homage watches (like Tiger Concept and Alpha Watches) but fakes/replicas are not my cup of tea but its a huge interest for thousands of people. A young lad I work with is very active in those forums and he has a collection of fakes, some of them look amazing. I'm afraid this is why I don't really buy second-hand watches.
The lad at work has a replica/fake Navi and there's no way you could spot it until you pop off the back case. It doesn't really bother me as I know he couldn't afford any of the watches he has as fakes and he's really keen on one day owning a good watch, until then he has fake watches, that he's not trying to sell onwards. Also that lad is probably the only person ever that showed any interest at all in my watches so I say fair play to him, its not my business.
Very scary stuff indeed. A guy where I was working few weeks back was selling fake watches and selling lots of them it seems most people will buy them and the 'replica' scene is almost as big as the real watch scene.
Shouldn't really come as any surprise.
$615 is too much for a fake.
Isn't $1 too much to pay for a fake?
Not if you like them :)
So what price are you willing to pay?
I bet zsayub likes those :-(
Yeah.....but nobody would be stupid enough to like fakes would they??
Comes as no surprise to me. I use to take an interest in super reps, before I decided that a fake just isn't quenching my thrist for the real deal.
I owned a few super reps and hate to say it but they come extremely close to the real thing and most comes with Chinese ETA moment which are very accurate. You can even spec your watch with Swiss moment for about $100 extra. But getting a good rep is sometimes pot luck, as they can develop little faults.
Also there is a massive second hand market for fakes. I managed to sell my fakes for the price I paid.
Last edited by smokedog; 28th October 2015 at 12:15.
I guess it's a case (no pun intended) of replicating the original as close as possible.Why do they stamp up the inner case back with their spurious marks when to see them you'd have to look at the obviously non - Rolex movement?
To be honest, I couldn't tell if that was a Rolex or not (although I'd be a little suspicious of the movement if I could see it) and I guess I probably represent those who might be fooled by a replica in that I know nothing about Rolexes really.
Aside from the movement, that looks, to me, like every other YM I've seen photos of.
I suspect a lot of people who buy Rolexes don't really know a lot about them and are fooled into buying fakes simply because it says Rolex on the dial and looks reasonably good.
M.
Fake or replica? a fake to me would be a item that has been copied with very good quality, or not so good, but with no disclosure of the item being a copy, a replica would be a copy of a item, but identified/described as such.
Years ago I was looking at a couple of replica watch sites, at a speedy because I wanted to own one, I didn't have a physical comparison to check it against, but it looked very good, I asked both suppliers numerous questions, and all were answered with no smoke and mirrors, the only reason I didn't buy one was I felt I cheating myself, no one else just me.
So if you buy a replica watch, is that a fake?
Yes (IMHO)
And in the eyes of the law, if it features trademarks.
That's why an Alpha is a 'homage' and this 'Rolex' is a fake.
It's a fine line really...
I've a Panerai 'homage' which has "Marina Militarie" on the dial (no Panerai markings), which I believe infringes Panerai''s TMs, but it doesn't actually purport to be a Panerai, so it would be impossible (ignoring the obvious differences in quality) to pass it off as the real thing.
Personally, I don't feel bad about wearing it - It was a cheap watch, which has the 'look' of a dearer watch, but isn't pretending to be one (as this 'Rolex' is). Whilst I quite like wearing it now and then, I don't like the style enough to ever want a real Panerai, so I don't feel I'm wearing it (on the odd occasion I do) in lieu of the real thing, either.
I think of it as I do the blue dialed Sekonda 'Navitimer-alike' I have - It's a fairly clear 'lookalike', but it stands and falls on its on merits, which are clearly very different to the real thing.
M
Last edited by snowman; 28th October 2015 at 10:29.
Absolute rubbish - seriously, read what you just wrote back to yourself!
If it says Rolex (or whatever brand) on the dial and it hasn't been made by them, it's fake. The whole fake-owner's whining of 'it's not a fake, it's a replica' is just the fakers trying to make it into some kind of grey area. There is no grey area. They are fake.
'Homages' may look very much like the real item but crucially do not carry the brand name. It's an important distinction. Many don't like homages either, but fundamentally no-one is trying to pass anything off as something it's not (IMHO). 'Reps', replicas, fakes exist for one purpose only - to deceive. Who you deceive, (yourself, others) varies, but their purpose remains. They exist to deceive.
Yep - it's a very, very strange culture. Literally a whole bunch of guys who refer to each other as "brothers" all the time and spend their lives comparing their fake watches, even spending USD 2000-3000 (!) making them similar to real ones. I find it profoundly strange.
Very much so TT. A couple of years back I was exposed to the sub culture by a chap on another watch forum and was surprised, shocked and dare I say it, impressed by some of these guys kitchen table fakes. Not so much by the modern Rolexes and the like, where my knowledge base would be seriously lacking, but by some of the vintage Rolexes and others they were knocking up. Some of which were extremely convincing. Including correct movements. These were not cheap to build, in the well over a thousand quid arena. However they turned a collection of so so vintage parts and watches into far more valuable models. One guy had made a Rolex Milsub that I would have sworn was the real deal if I'd seen it on say this forum as a genuine item. The patina was jaw dropping in the accuracy of deceit. At least in photos. It looked "right". He even went to the trouble of welding in fixed springbars and then removing them so it looked like part of the history of the watch when it got into civilian hands. There were a few vintage Omega 300s that were very accurately done and one vintage Panerai with the correct Rolex movement that looked like the real deal. I'd bet that at least some of those kind of watches have shown up in vintage auctions over the years. There have certainly been dodgy redials, missing/swapped parts seen in big ticket auctions.
- - - Updated - - -
+1000Absolute rubbish - seriously, read what you just wrote back to yourself!
If it says Rolex (or whatever brand) on the dial and it hasn't been made by them, it's fake. The whole fake-owner's whining of 'it's not a fake, it's a replica' is just the fakers trying to make it into some kind of grey area. There is no grey area. They are fake.
'Homages' may look very much like the real item but crucially do not carry the brand name. It's an important distinction. Many don't like homages either, but fundamentally no-one is trying to pass anything off as something it's not (IMHO). 'Reps', replicas, fakes exist for one purpose only - to deceive. Who you deceive, (yourself, others) varies, but their purpose remains. They exist to deceive.
I saw fake watches of this standard 5 years ago in Sharm el sheikh, they were not on display with the cheapies but brought out as collectors pieces if the punter seemed to want that bit more. I was gob smacked at the time a vowelled to very becareful what watches I bought in the future and where I bought them.
In the next few years the replicas will only get better, its a sad matter of fact. Its not just watches, clothes and sports equipment ect will also continue to be copied.
I know where the Broadarrow on my wrist today was made...Zeno I hope?
It only goes to show a little bit about the actual costs needed to make a watch like this and margins involved. Of course you'd need to add for higher production costs in Europe, better parts and QC and service. Then again we all now the margin we pay on these kind of watches. Is the same for phones. An EUR 800 iPhone cross ~250 to make as well.
Every time an item is copied and sold, a tiny bit of innovation dies.
So people can convince themselves any which way they like, but ultimately they are stealing something from the world if they purchase these fakes.
They will be the first to complain when Rolex stop developing the Yacht Master line, yet the irony will be lost on them.
It shows what can be done with slave labour if someone has already done the real work, yes.
True. I forgot to add development. Didnt mean to be complete. Advertising and promo is also missing.
Yes. I preferred paying nothing as the new 'Bond nato' that came with my very convincing £10 'DRSD' would gave cost a tenner on its own! It also has an ETA 28xx inside and I love it. Think it'd be over £200 new.
I know its a fake as would anyone who asked the usual. Worn in the same spirit as a pukka £5 RL Polo😊
As is building a new factory every few years, investing in new machines and tools constantly, having your own smelting facilities, R&D, training, staff pensions, a decent canteen, air conditioning, cleaners and paying tax!
I remember on one of the lousier forums some sort of know-it-all tried to estimate the 'actual price of a Rolex', using basic calculations for material costs and labour per hour. I think he got to about $800 and started squealing how we were all being ripped off but completely missed the point of what has been involved in all of the above and decades of developments, innovations and patents.
This is cheap steel, cheaply made into a part resembling a YM, painstakingly polished and finished for virtually nothing by slave labour and assembled without any form of testing or guarantee for $600. Why would you buy this over a Seiko, Steinhart or Helson? Because you want people to think you have a Rolex.
Why? To deceive.
Does anyone really ask whether someone's watch is fake or not? Of course not, not in the real world.
Just so. To deceive.
And yet the MilSub on my wrist right now (sorry, Steinhart Ocean One Vintage Military) is OK?
It is a very fine, strange and wavy line this replica thing.
<edit>
Just taken off the Steinhart and put on one of my Tudors, I can breathe again.
So you've replaced a Rolex rip off, with a Rolex wannabe! Because EVERYBODY knows that you only buy a Tudor if you can’t afford a Rolex J/K ;-)
For me if a watch has the same name, but isn't the same article then it’s a fake, if it’s sterile, has a different name, or is a nod to an original, then it’s a homage which is acceptable in my book.
oooooooh!
I don't think the line is fine or wavy at all. If it's got a manaufacturers name on it and they didn't make or authorise it, it's a fake.
Exactly.
Cheers,
Neil.
Do you really think that?
I bought my Tudor because I like it (yes, it's that simple!), I also like the fact that very few people will recognise my Tudor and no one will think it's fake either...
This is not the replica you are looking for - to me a replica would be something that has been officially sanctioned, so either you own or have purchased the design/rights or have been commissioned by the original maker. So in this case there is only one word and that is fake.
You say that, I'd worn my Pelagos into a small watch boutique in Cardiff when I was in the market for a Speedmaster. The sales guy was interested and asked about it. Let him hold it to get a feel and he asked if it was a fake, and I sh*t you not, "because its pretty light for a diver". Sufficed to say I didn't buy a watch from him that day!
Posting Permissions
