Actually, yes that was well said.Originally Posted by Neil.C
really, if any of us complain about shop staff, we're complaining about shop management and how they are not parepared to let staff have a mind or personality of their own, or pay them properly.
Quite so, but we already established on a recent thread that there is the classical Greek pronunciation (oh-MEG-a), Daniel Craig's pronunciation in 'Casino Royale' (oh-MEEG-a), and the way that OMEGA the company pronounce it in their marketing materials (oh-MAY-ga).
When referring to OMEGA watches, as opposed to Greek letters, Vauxhall cars, or anything else, we can assume that the manufacturer is the ultimate authority.
I've met some amazing and really knowledgeable people in stores, a woman in Cheltenham yesterday (when I was looking at Mont Blanc) spotted my JLC Master Hometime peeping out from under a cuff from the other side of the desk and nailed it (not easy, and they are not JLC stockists). Had a very nice chat and opened my eyes to the current MB line up as well (some stunning VFM there at the moment).
A chap in Cardiff gave me an astonishingly in-depth run down on the Reversos last year, learnt a load (not least of which is that I really want one). If I go new I will go to him.
And to prove the 'a little knowledge is dangerous' point, one put me right in my place (albeit very gently) when I thought I knew a bit about Breguet a few years ago and it turned out that I was pronouncing the name entirely incorrectly having done all my research in written form.
I didn't disagree with you, bitfield
H
I don't expect most salespeople to know as much about watches as I do but . . . . consider this exchange at a local chain jewelry store. I was in there looking at an Omega Planet Ocean.
Her: "With that watch, we offer lifetime battery replacements for a one-time charge of $25.00"
Me: "Uuhhhh, it's an automatic watch. It doesn't need a battery".
Her: "Well, if ever does need one, it's nice insurance to have"
I kid you not.
OK fair dos. That one is a classic.
I will admit I actively avoid browsing for watches in jewellers now, as I have in the past corrected dreadful 'made up on the spot' drivel spouted by the salesman, and I've actually felt like a pompous idiot tbh. On reflection , if I was a 'regular' non WIS customer, I might have been taken in by what is frankly BS/ a lie and it is that element which really irritates me. If they said 'I don't know' when I asked the power reserve or about the movement that would be fine but when they make stuff up, that's just lying to my face, and I don't appreciate that. I take my money somewhere else!
The fora equivalent to Bear baiting or Dog fights look at me I have 1 third or maybe 1 half of your yearly salary on my wrist and I have a little knowledge and some time to waste so let me have some fun at your expense and then me and my fora mates can have a chortle later, what a waste of time and effort if you know what you want go for it and if not then in my experience there are very few "real" experts out there especially in a high street or mall near you.These dealers employ staff with little knowledge and even smaller wages.
From Omega to BreguetI have always said Bruh-gay, but is this incorrect? I am genuinely interested.
I sniggered when I heard one lady assistant say
I want it in my box by Friday
nothing to do with watches mind.
From Omega to Breguet
That's just how I say it....that's a relief.
So if you already knew the answers, why asks the questions in the first place?
- - - Updated - - -
Seems a little sad to go in a shop just to get one upmanship jollies at the expense of another.
I was just standing there minding my own business watching the retrograde seconds hand on one of the newer Tradition models. After the person said her opening piece I simply said something like 'oh I see, thank you, they're very nice'. I then moved on to look at the exhibition cabinets outside the Lange section which by sheer coincidence pointed out the true reason why Breguet are a 'top make'
To lighten the mood, this from last Christmas. Language has been edited, but content completely accurate. Christmas from the front line in Liverpool, a true tale of festive romance :
"Shopkeeper my good man, will you be able to have that ring resized for 10:00 on the morrow?"
"Certainly, sir, though that is a rather pressing schedule."
"I do apologise. I am on day release only today and tomorrow from accommodation provided by Her Majesty. I wish to take your fine accoutrement and hide it at home, so that on Christmas morn I may call my beloved from the place of my incarceration, tell her the location of same and ask if she will take my hand at such time as I am released."
Ah, how sweet. Lucky girl !
H
^^^^^^^
Ahh, love knows no bounds or custodial sentences it seems
a couple of years ago i spoke to a rolex "expert" at an AD and was told that the a submariner watch took a year to make as it was entirely crafted by hand.....couldn't resist and replied "what from a block of metal entirely by hand" and was told that was correct.when i tried to politely correct her i was patronizingly told about her being an expert in the field and rolex trained.kinda wonder how people have been ripped off by phillippe dufour etc...
The epic bulls4!t that has been told in the line of 'training' throughout history knows no bounds. Sales-related training in particular seems to be designed to mislead. When a salesperson truly believes their bulls4it then, sad to say, it does make them a better seller in general.
A long time ago I was a 'technical presales consultant' for a certain technology-related firm. A salesperson got off the phone from a wouldbe client who had just told her that our services were overpriced rubbish. She turned to me in shock and asked "But our services are the best in the industry and our prices are very keen, aren't they?" with a genuinely concerned look on her face. Oh my god, she actually believed it. She had been trained, you see.
Last edited by markrlondon; 13th January 2016 at 16:12.
I was shopping for a watch for the wife recently at Goldsmiths.
Whilst the sales staff clearly didn't all the knowledge, he certainly knew enough & had a interest to learn more.
Cut a long story short after a lot of questions & exchanging numbers I sold him my sterile Getat Pam homage.
Very entertaining and distracting!
I;d not be surprised if a sad WIS had one of these as a ringtone, they are kind of surreal.
When I was trying on the nearest thing to my ideal Reverso in an AD I got in to a decent conversation with the salesman, he was wearing a JLC Compressor and said he had been to the factory for a tour...he also said that only two people in the factory make the 'Reverso movements'....I glossed over it saying that's probably why the service times are so long, but assume he got mixed up with servicing the 101 movement, the Tryptique or the minute repeater Reverso and perhaps will continue to tell people that only two people make the Reverso movements for the rest of his JLC selling career.
I was shopping for a runaround hatchback with my parents for my mother and ventured into the VW garage, wasn't just the young sales guy but he called the manager straight over who sat on the edge of the desk and said, "so how are you guys today"? Errrr. Fine ... (My father is in his late 70s so how are you sir I would venture would be appropriate ,
So what are "we" looking at today, let's see if we can get you into a golf......
It ended up being like therapy on the shrinks couch with all these emotive expressive empathy cobblers they'd been trained in.... Bearing in mind we have a couple of modern cars and also 6 vintage cars already including a 50s R type Bentley and a Turbo as well,
my father was a club racer in his day as well so we aren't clueless when it comes to cars....
We just said...look what have you got ....how much is a 1.6 golf, no contract no add ons..... Just tell us what it will cost and what it has on it....that's it...if we like it we'll buy it we have cash..... Don't think they quite knew what to do really.....
I was idly looking at the beetle while in there and the younger guy sprang back with how great that one was.... I pointed out I had a beetle before and there's something wrong with it as the engine was missing when I opened the boot and he looked very puzzled......
What complete and utter twaddle.
Simon
I was merely speaking from personal knowledge and experience. Maybe your experiences have been different. Good for you, if so.
Do you work in training or a related field? :-)
Well, everyone knows that every Rolex Submariner is in fact hand carved out of a single block of special Swiss submarine steel that was left over when the Swiss figured out that they don't in fact need a submarine.
I've been running a professional business skills training company for 19 years.
The reason for my response is that your comments were such a sweeping generalisation as to be meaningless, and yet they continue to fuel the fire of ignorance about sales as a professional activity. I absolutely agree that there is a frequently low level of expertise and professionalism displayed in retail sales; in most cases that is due to no training or poor training, exacerbated by extreme youth and minimum wages.
Good sales training adds value to the retailers business and adds real value to the customer's experience - in the retail sector one need only look as far as John Lewis for evidence of this. Good professional sales behaviour needs to draw on excellent interpersonal skills, best practice commercial behaviours and a sound understanding of the products and services offered. It has nothing to do with lying, hyperbole, ignorance, 'smoke and mirrors' or high pressure.
Simon
Last edited by mycroft; 16th January 2016 at 10:35.
Not even in Lake Geneva?
Dave
Enforced, mandatory familiarity like that certainly grates. "You guyz..." in a VW dealership is at least as irritating as it is here, or anywhere else where people generally don't know each other personally. I assume that someone in the Training Dept thinks that everyone likes it!I was shopping for a runaround hatchback with my parents for my mother and ventured into the VW garage, wasn't just the young sales guy but he called the manager straight over who sat on the edge of the desk and said, "so how are you guys today"? Errrr. Fine ... (My father is in his late 70s so how are you sir I would venture would be appropriate ,
So what are "we" looking at today, let's see if we can get you into a golf......
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I was told by a sales person recently that the bezel clicks on the Tudor Pelegos were engineered to sound the same as the combination dials on a Swiss safe. as I've now seen similar comments referred to elsewhere maybe it's true though I'd have to ask why?
Kev
Absolutely ... as I said my parents are in their late 70s, unfortunately mathematics means I am no longer in my 20s, (though I am adopted and my natural mother is actually only 14 years older than me)
though that still means "you guys" in what is supposed to be a reasonably prestigious marque is just impolite at best... the whole thing was like therapy...
however, with hindsight maybe it was a Paul McKenna type strategy...
. look into my eyes...there is no emissions problem... you will experience no depreciation from any news stories.... 1 2 3 back in the room..
Ah, I guessed right. ;-)
Well yes, some of it (specifically the second sentence in my first paragraph) was over-generalised hyperbole for the purposes of humour.
For the avoidance of doubt:
(1) The first sentence of the first paragraph was opinion, based upon experience but exaggerated for humour.
(2) The third sentence of the first paragraph was based upon direct personal experience (but certainly should not be taken to refer to all sales people, and in that respect was also a generalisation for the purposes of humour).
(3) The second paragraph was a factual anecdote which was intended to be indicative of very many of my experiences (as a technical consultant) with sales people but, again, should not be taken to apply to all salespeople.
It is worth re-iterating that, despite my humour, I was speaking not from ignorance but from fact and experience. However, I certainly accept that nothing I said should be taken to mean that all training is bad!
Yes, this is the problem which I was humorously generalising about.
Sometimes training is intentionally designed to mislead a trainee who knows no better. The idea being that sales people who genuinely believe their own bulls4it without knowing any better are better at selling certain types of product than ones who know they are bulls4itting. Is this 'good' training? In the short term it definitely boosts sales (on low end items at least) but I doubt it's beneficial in the long term or for higher value items.
I agree that that is how it should be.
Last edited by markrlondon; 16th January 2016 at 20:46.
In my 20+ years in retail, most customers can spot bulls**t from a salesperson a mile off. As mycroft stated, youth and low wages account for a lot of bad salesmanship. I also think life experience counts for a lot. I don't even count myself as a salesperson really. A customer comes to me with their needs, and I sell them what I think will best suit those needs. They are happy, tell friends and family, who come and spend money with me.
It depends on a lot of factors I think. In many fields at certain times, customers know no better so can be successfully misled (but see below for what I mean). I'm not saying this is ethical, only that it happens and can work well for the business (in certain sectors, at certain price levels, and at certain times).
It was the shock of finding a customer who knew better that caused the sales person in my anecdote in #119 to turn to me with such a look of shock and cognitive dissonance on her face. She was genuinely shocked that what she had been told (or led to believe, shall we say) might not be the whole, complete, truth. Yes, she was very young, but had in fact worked in recruitment previously...
I mentioned above about customers being misled but it isn't so overt as lying or actively misleading. It's more that the the sales training is designed to give the sales person complete confidence in their product (where perhaps such confidence might not be completely warranted in terms of features or price compared to the competition). As I said in #119, sad to say this confidence really does make them better sellers, at least for commodity-like products. Higher end products do take more product knowledge and more experience.
Classy response, Mark.
Kind regards, Simon
Completely agree - but most companies simply fall back on the latter, as it's faster, cheaper and drives higher revenues. It's easier to teach someone to use overfamiliarity, attack-dog aggression and a sense of entitlement to win a sale than any of the other attributes you mention. Which is why the likes of Sky, Vodafone, TalkTalk and any of Britain's energy providers are permanently in the dock for their sales tactics, and companies like John Lewis are in the minority!
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Car salesmen who say...we have a £2000 discount for civil servants.
Or teachers, NHS, judges, Bin men.......what ever occupation you have they have a £2000 discount on a new car.
What did you say....you are unemployed....we have a £2000 discount for the jobless. Homeless.....etc etc
The numebr of people who get taken in by this. They leave the shop with glowing praise for the car salesman.
And when he has asked you where you work.....his uncle deffo works there. Rapport established......
I work in watch sales and I generally agree with what some of you say. It doesn't look great when a sales person knows jack about the product or industry etc.
I've seen some people not know how to set the time and date also which their isn't really any excuse for.
Considering we all work on commission too there really is a reason to learn and develop your knowledge! The top sales people in our stores (there are 4-5) all have good knowledge about the products we sell, our competitors and about the brands etc. We have 3-4 of the top 20 sales people in the company in the store I work in and that's because we have all taken time to learn about what we are selling and I'd be embarrassed if someone came in and knew more than me about what I was selling.
But seeing the figures some of us pull in I don't see why anyone else in store wouldn't want to learn and help themselves out, sell more and make more money, which is why you work in sales.
I think many of the complaints here could be leveled at sales people in most industries. It's a common for people to want to appear more knowledgeable about a topic especially in some sectors were sales people are expected to stretch the truth to sell a product.
I worked for a decade in retail (not watches, but with a toe or two in the realm of luxury goods) and one of my least favourite things was colleagues spouting ignorant rubbish. Half the time the customer just enjoyed hearing the confidence flowing from the assistant, but sometimes I could see the on the customer's face that they knew far more than the assistant and was finding the conversation very disagreeable. It was excruciating having to listen the car crash.
This.
From longstanding first hand experience financial services are no better. I say that as someone with a 25 year track record of devising financial and tax planning products...and a 25 year history of occasionally wincing at how they are sold. And that is in a REGULATED a industry, folks :/
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