Reply With QuoteThis is what I was trying to get across in my ramble...Originally Posted by markrlondon
CW are already in the mass market mainstream. They have never sold specifically to WISs. They definitely aren't a fashion watch brand; they are (or were) very much a value-priced luxury watch brand. Although perhaps the new branding is intended to take them into fashion watch territory, albeit as a rather high price for that territory.
This is what I was trying to get across in my ramble...
Ah, gotcha.
We'll see, I guess. If so it's an odd strategy in my opinion but who knows.
Agreed - I love my ancient Smiths with their "Made in England" on the dial - and I wear shoes made the traditional way in Northampton. Crazy idea to lose the British connection when it actively encourages some buyers to purchase.....
Roll it in glitter.
You'd then have a Vulgari not a CW
Luxury, my arse.
The last CW forum limited edition really struggled to sell out, so even when a forum full of WISs design their own watch it's still not a sure fire hit!
I recently bought a CW. I had been considering it a full price, so in a clearance sale it was an easy decision.
The design is one of those which risks being a bit bland, but would be transformed if every detail were done perfectly. Unfortunately, while the execution is almost there, the tiny tiny things stop it from being successful. The balance between the hands, indices and bezel isn't right; the texture of the sunburst is too subtle; the detail of the case needs to be done more sharply; the indices and hands don't quite have enough sense of solidity to gleam. The first impressions of the watch are very good, but the lack of harmony amongst the tiny details gradually erodes that initial impression.
My conclusion, seeing this just missing the target repeated throughout their range, is that there isn't someone at CW HQ who has a sharp enough eye to look at a prototype and see what needs to be done to a design to shift it from acceptable to worthwhile.
One of my favourite sayings in the studio is that good design is usually the product of a dictatorship. Design by committee is terrible. It's terrible to be involved in and it always produces something that fully pleases no one. However, insight into any sector of your target market is invaluable. Agencies have been using focus groups since the year dot. You often end up throwing out most of what those idiots say but it's good to get their opinions before ignoring them and claiming you knew what was right all along.
I don't really understand how CW can expect to shift volume to the mass market given their business model. Ignoring the fact that Mr Nonwis is highly unlikely to spend £500 on a watch (when he can buy a Boss or Armani piece of tinsel on the high street for less than half) I can only see such a person buying a CW watch following a buying pattern that just doesn't seem plausible. ie. Sees a press ad, goes to the website and spends more than they've ever spent on a watch. It's either that or it's reliant on the random search terms of such buyers and despite being an online manufacturer, CWs targeted marketing and SEO seems to be pretty weak.
I don't disagree with the fashion watch non WIS theory. I just don't understand how they can grow in that direction without a big change, mainly in the form of public awareness.
Last edited by mowflow; 10th May 2016 at 23:58.
Dr Sledgehammer to Christopher Ward, Dr Sledgehammer to Christopher Ward, Code Brown.
Yes, it was odd that. Something went wrong there.
Of course, but it's got to be the right focus group. It surely has to be composed of individuals chosen from your target market, people who might actually buy your products. In the case of the forum, they are definitely the wrong individuals to use for guidance.
Forumites do buy the products of course but not the same products that the general market buys. Therefore if you used forumites as your only focus group then you'd end up with a WIS brand/logo and making WIS/boutique watches and not a brand or watches to sell to the mass, luxury watch, market.
As we discussed earlier, it looks to me that the focus group used was the employees of the design agency, so they ended up with a brand and logo that appeals to that group but with products that that group are unlikely to buy (unless they were perhaps 20 years older).
Aren't direct sales a growing and highly successful way of getting to market? Even Jaeger LeCoultre do it now.
Interesting. Allegedly it does seem to have worked for CW so far but, then again, two new logos and a re-brand in a short period of time might suggest it has not worked so well after all.
In my view I think CW's approach can work (and ostensibly it has worked, if we ignore the possible significance of new logos/brand): As far as I can tell, CW do not see themselves competing against Boss or Armani. They have always pitched themselves above that level (at least in their minds, I think). In your paragraph above you left out word of mouth and I think this has been important to them. The buying pattern that you feel is implausible seems plausible to me, especially if you take word of mouth into account.
I agree. I think the fashion watch theory in connection with the new branding is not totally implausible but, as you say, it would require more marketing to the Kickstarter generation and entirely new designs of watches at a much lower price point. Despite the new brand and logo, CW do not appear to be going this way as far as I can see so far.
Which leaves me thinking that the new branding is simply incompatible with their price points and what seems to be their ongoing style of product.
We shall we what comes out of this.
Genius!
But WIS are a strident and uncompromising lot who will scream blue murder at a minute hand 1mm too short. So the idea of a watch that's effectively designed by committee appeasing a forum full of single-issue types with an OCD tendency is fanciful at best.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Hah... To be fair, forum limited editions usually do seem to sell out quickly in my experience (mainly CWF and WUS). The last one at CWF was odd, I think.
It wasn't odd, it was boring! Well, IMO at least. It came down to a choice between a traditional slimline dress watch, slightly tweaked, and a yellow dialed diver, if I recall correctly. I was in the yellow camp but the dress watch won by one or two votes. So straight away that limited the interest, then there were delays in its production, one or two dropped out as they bought other things instead and others didn't take up their option of buying, but I think they've pretty much all gone now, just as the debate on the rebrand is fading like the last embers of a fire....
But on the CW Facebook page, they have said they will be responding to all the criticism in due course - they're taking their time. I personally wouldn't expect change, apart from maybe to the new website which is messy to navigate. The whole package is the issue - the rebrand, advertising, website drivel (some of the text is painful) and I think most importantly, what exactly is the future direction of the company?
Mike France, co-founder of Christopher Ward, discusses the new CW branding in a telephone interview in this youtube vid. He sounds like a nice bloke to be fair!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyIITM8hHRw
Does anyone know if these have been discontinued now? Wouldn't mind trying a CW, they're starting to grow on me.
So they could have put 'France, London' on the dial!
That sounds serious:-)
Are they growing on your limbs or the torso?
May be a visit to a homeopath might be in order:-)
That CR the OP posted has an uninspiring dial, hands, logo, indices. Even the case doesn't try to do anything out of the ordinary.
Not ugly or offensive in any way though, but nothing about it makes me like it.
The quartz model still looks like that.Does anyone know if these have been discontinued now? Wouldn't mind trying a CW, they're starting to grow on me.
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Hopefully just on the one limb but you never know. Robert DJ's Green Money Rolex has made me start hunting for a green watch :)
Cool thanks, I'll send them an email.
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