Reply With QuoteThought that might happen. Good, despite the rule being ridiculous.Originally Posted by langtoft lad
Link:
Having considered the matter extensively, the Stewards determined that the team gave some instructions to the driver that were specifically permitted under Technical Directive 014-16. However, the Stewards determined that the team then went further and gave instructions to the driver that were not permitted under the Technical Directive, and were in Breach of Art. 27.1 of the Sporting Regulations, that the driver must drive the car alone and unaided.
It will be interesting to find out where they have determined that the boundary lies.
Link: Official Classification
Thought that might happen. Good, despite the rule being ridiculous.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
And Verstappen moving up to second! Nice. Surely, without the help of the pit crew, NR would have been in serious trouble and MV would have overtaken NR.
In fairness it was not really Nico's fault. He was complaining about something and his garage told him to alt-con-Del. However it was interesting that Lewis had problems a couple of races ago, the garage were much more careful about the information.
My view is that he should have been disqualified last week for driving a dangerous car (bits hanging off) and this week for getting help from the garage (which if he had not got, would have caused him to stop).
Lewis drive very well as did young Max.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
They should have been disqualified (maybe the whole team) Mercedes cheated, all the other teams have respected this rule to the letter, last week they claimed that they couldn't tell NR his brakes had failed, then there is LH steering wheel issue, other teams have had DNF's and crashes because of this rule. it is a stupid rule but MB cheated.
I don't know what has happened to McLaren on the strategy front.
I think a dire qualy for Jenson and Alonso getting in a few scraps before a long trip across the gravel put paid to the relevance of any strategy to be honest!
Given Williams rely on Merc power, I wonder if Hulkenberg or Wehrlein will replace him for 2017? Not convinced Hulk is much of an upgrade right now but Pascal has already shown in DTM and now in F1 that he has the race craft.
Link; Mercedes considers appeal:
Mercedes has lodged its intention to appeal against the penalty handed to Nico Rosberg by the British Grand Prix stewards regarding its breach of Formula 1's radio communications restrictions.
The champion team now has 96 hours to determine whether it will follow through with an official appeal via its ASN, the Deutschen Motorsport Bund (DMSB).
Link:
Race stewards found Mercedes were allowed to give Rosberg instructions on the settings he needed to resolve the problem.
But they should not have responded to his subsequent question on whether he should then change gear so the car went straight through seventh gear.
Last edited by PickleB; 11th July 2016 at 10:52.
The one part of the message that I thought was totally redundant. You can just use the bottom 6 if you like Nico, or yes, obviously, change through it.
Maybe the issue was that normally with sequential gearboxes the loss of a gear can prevent you shifting through it, because that gear has to be selected before moving to the next and if it's badly damaged you may not be able to shift past it (Martin Brundle expressed his surprise in the commentary that you could actually shift through a damaged gear). Nico was instructed by the pit wall to avoid using 7th, he then asked how and the pit wall confirmed that he was to shift though it.
I guess the debate is about whether that is aiding the driver. Nico may have figured it out, but he specifically asked for and received confirmation.
Yeah that's a fair point. The whole thing did make me realise that they've been using an 8 speed 'box for a couple of years now. I thought they still all had 7.
It's possible the control electronics might recognise a double shift and go straight to 8.
Nico isn't really very good in the wet is he? A weakness for someone with championship ambitions.
AFAIK Its a cassette box like a motorbike, except the gears are all straight cut, by shifting through, the the gear cog is still attached to the shaft, if the cog breaks up or moves about it will go bang. unless they have changed this season!
I agree.
The team instruction did rob us of that. Verstappen was well n course to overtake Rosberg when they told him not to bother.
All in all I am ever more convinced that the WHOLE radio contact should be banned.
For the rest a very entertaining race for a change.
I agree, certainly in qualifying and the race itself.
It is too easy to have coded messages and too vague regarding what is/isn't acceptable so it should be open comms or none. Of the two, I prefer radio silence.
Maybe - if the TV coverage demands it - we could have one way radio with the drivers mic open. Other than that, the only message to the drivers could be from race control.
Can anyone tell me why the FIA needs offices in both Paris and Geneva?
Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile
Chemin de Blandonnet 2
1214 Vernier
Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile
8 Place de la Concorde
75008 Paris
Well I guess that sums up the race today. 8 hours after the GP, there are no new comments. Pretty dull race I thought, although qualifying was interesting yesterday.
Anyway, a couple of pics from the British GP as I was there a couple of weeks back...
Poor race but it's good to see the Championship lead now reflects skill rather than pure luck.
I fear the second half of the season may be a damp squib like the end of 2013 was, with one driver in the best team having clear superiority over his team mate and the other teams falling further behind as they give up on 2016 to focus on the significant rule changes in 2017.
The team radio restrictions were shown again today to be utterly ridiculous and a complete embarrassment for the sport. For me it's the worst rule change since double points for the last race in 2014.
Let the drivers drive and the teams worry about the car. Banning team radio all together isn't the answer either and would rob fans of a key insight into the racing.
Last edited by watchcollector1; 25th July 2016 at 00:52.
I can think of several (well, at least two) possible reasons.
There was too much radio comms, The geordie was pretty much driving for Massa in their Ferrari days. The rules and their interpretation do need more work though. If Button's was an offence (and as he said, how is a brake problem not safety related) how was it worth a 20+ second drive through when Kvyat speeding in the pitlane was only worth 5.
I think it was telling Button not to change gear that was the reason for the penalty. It could also be considered safety related as a gearbox blow up and oil spill in the braking area for a corner could have significant consequences.
The radio communication issue will take time to resolve but it will sort itself out eventually.
Did anyone else think that Verstappen should have been penalised for weaving when Kimi was trying to pass him? It certainly looked like weaving to me!
He definitely moved right, and then back to the left. However, if he was returning to the racing line then that's permitted I believe. I'd love to see an overlay of the line he took on the previous lap to compare them because I suspect he moved to a different line to block Kimi, but I might be wrong.
As Coulthard said, bring back all radio comms. No amount of radio communication is going to turn a good driver into a great one.
The cars are simply too complicated now to have none at all, and as yesterday's race proved, it's getting complicated for the teams to know where the line is drawn.
RE Button, didn't Coulthard say something about both the gearbox and brakes using hydraulics and that they told him not to change gear for fear of the brakes failing completely if he does?
No, sadly it sums up the dismal state that threads like this have been reduced to by the posts made by a very small number of members. There are several very knowledgeable people who used to post who no longer do. Go back a couple of seasons & there used to be a thread for every race.
Agreed, largely due to one poster in particular who follows a scorched earth policy. I miss the expert knowledge and discussion previously imparted on this thread, especially a couple of posters who are extremely knowledgeable (Backward Point being one poster of note)
He's looked close to weaving a few times.
I'm wondering if it's because he is a bit canny about it and blocks by turning away from the racing line near to the corner, that way he can make two more legal moves, once back to the racing line and one more into the corner which makes him extra wide but fits the rules.
Yesterday's race wasn't great, the track isn't fit for purpose, I think there was one on track overtake, F! has outgrown it (if it ever did fit)
MV jiggling to defend against KR should not go unpunished.
The Yellow flag fiasco in qualifying was a joke, if NR committed no breach (which obviously he did) then the flag marshal did. this will now mean that all drivers will ignore double waved yellows and claim they lifted for a nanosecond
It was boring and the stewards were on drugs.
I didn't watch the race, but I can recall people saying it was a deadly dull track with no overtaking opportunities when it first came on the calendar.
It's a bit strange that it's hung around for so long really. Is Hungary a HUGE market for F1?
M.
It seems to be relatively well attended, even when compared to some of the European races such as Hockenheim and Spa. They also recently extended the contract until 2026, so Bernie must have a reason for going there (other than money).
The 2014 & 2015 races in Hungary were fantastic with loads of action. I think it's one of the few tracks where DRS has helped improve the spectacle. Passes with DRS into turn 1 often end up with further battles into turns 2 & 3.
I think Hungary has scored quite highly in fan's rate the race polls in recent years. A good race track can still have a bad race (e.g. Canada) so I wouldn't judge it based only on this year.
Last edited by watchcollector1; 25th July 2016 at 21:58.
Or make the cars a little simpler in terms of driver's input so that coms are not necessary. We have already seen the refuelling banned [the engines became more efficient], the aerodynamics restricted to eliminate ground effect [cars are still going faster than they did at the time], driving aids [did make it more interesting but not slower], and made a tyre change compulsory [to add to the show, allegedly]. I did not mention the constant restriction on engine size.
None of those restrictions brought a durable reduction in performance: it is therefore not unreasonable to believe that if coms were totally banned, manufacturers would find a way to simplify the level of non-driving stuff a pilot must do to optimise his car during the race.
Yep agreed - I have the main offender on ignore and it pains me when people quote him.
Maybe it's a case of the cars being SO technical now that they can't make the steering wheels/controls any simpler without falling foul of some rule or making the steering wheels simpler would perhaps limit the driving modes available to the driver.
I tend to follow the F1 on C4 and while I wont swear by it, I can't recall any pundit asking for total radio bans in F1 and it's not as if they have an agenda.
Here's the F1 Fanatic rate the race results by circuit based on polls completed over the last 8 seasons. Hungary has the 4th highest average rating (admittedly this year's race poll isn't included yet and will bring the average down).
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/rate-the-...rcuit-ratings/
You and me both. Why do people insist on feeding trolls?
Seems that one member provokes more emotion than the F1 races. Maybe Bernie should contract him :-)
Anyway, 2016 looks to be a formality and the 2017 specs look to be a step in the more boring direction and with the two Merc boys behaving even that is no longer fun.
Imo Hamilton was spot on in his opinion that the cars should be designed for more overtaking and that the drivers should be consulted about that. Alas, a station passed.
All resting for 2016 is the battle between Ferrari and Red Bull, especially Verstappen versus Kimi. Should be some fireworks there.
James Allison, Ferrari Technical Director, has left the team. Whatever the reason, it can't be good for Ferrari. https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016...-with-allison/
Full radio comms are back, and just in time for the German GP – phew!
No comms during the parade lap, but once the lights go out, it’s open mics from thereon in.
Apparently, it’s to improve viewer entertainment – so the FIA say, along with Bernie’s approval.
The F1 spectacle has become a complete spectacle, what with making changes on the hoof – first it was the double points last race farce, then it was the new qualifying fiasco, and now it’s the cessation of the banning of radio chatter.
I’m beginning to think that F1 needs its version of the House of Lords, to make sure only sensible and practicable rules get implemented, rather than the suck-it-and-see approach.
I'm very happy that the radio restrictions have been lifted, it's a team sport after all and the idea of splitting the driver from the rest of the team during the race was contrary to that notion. It also removed a layer of interaction with the fans.
I also read that *all* radio messages should be free to air and that the privacy button, something that was used when comms were deemed to be not fit for others to hear, will be banned. I didn't even know it existed!
Common sense has prevailed, which isn't something you can say too often these days about F1.
All in the interest of maximum entertainment.
Marchionne meddling......
Hope James ends up somewhere good and soon. He's a very talented engineer.
James's wife died suddenly a few months ago, I suspect he needs to be back in England to look after the kids.
Agreed. Does the rumour about Brawn coming back into the Maranello fold have any substance to it?
Pretty sure that he's on record as saying that there hasn't even been any contact let alone discussions with Ferrari. Whilst Ross Brawn vs Adrian Newly vs Paddy Lowe would be pretty awesome I can't see it happening.
I don't see him coming to an F1 team that he doesn't have an equity share in....
Ferrari have stated that they want someone from within the factory.
Who?
The trainee tea boy?!
According to Mark Hughes in Motorsport Brawn wants total control like he had before and Marchione (sp?) is afraid to give it to him.
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