Reply With QuoteI'm a big Zenith fan, it's a slow process but I think they are heading in the right direction following the damage done during the Nadaf years, I'm hoping to pick up the Zenith 410 Moonphase with Silver dial some day.
It appears that LMVH has pulled Zenith from its outlet shops. I wonder which direction it is going? There has not any interesting after its Striking 10 imho. Some of its Pilot watches is simply too big. Maybe they are trying to create a niche place for the El Primero movement.
I'm a big Zenith fan, it's a slow process but I think they are heading in the right direction following the damage done during the Nadaf years, I'm hoping to pick up the Zenith 410 Moonphase with Silver dial some day.
A Zenith 410 Moonphase is also on my list, looking for the grey slate dial.Originally Posted by shalako
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I too have a huge affection for Zenith, I think they have an amazing horological heritage that other higher profile brands would die for. The watches also exude class and they are wonderful to look at in real life.
As per the OPs thoughts; my worry for Zenith would be that they suffer a similar fate to Lemania i.e. - a great respected brand that lies dormant in a wider portfolio.
I totally agree. Given the story behind Mr Vermot and the brands survival of the "quartz crisis", surely nobody would be stupid enough to allow such a decline... Surely...
Another big Zenith fan here. Can I ask what your source for the above is please? Would be interested to read more
Zenith's massive, genuine history, and being the maker of one of the most famous watch movements of all time, should put it in a great place to be a highly successful and respected brand. However, despite a big improvement since the more extreme designs of the Nadaf era I still think they're just getting it wrong. Endless special editions for completely unrelated brands (Cohiba cigars, Rolling Stones, Range Rover, etc) that don't sell out for years despite pretty limited numbers, and a seemingly unquenchable thirst for open heart dials just don't hit the mark. They even do too many versions of the good stuff they make - if Rolex only need two colour ways of SS Submariner, Zenith definitely do not need 5 million variations of the El Primero chrono.
I think with a streamlined product range, the right business plan and marketing strategy they could reposition themselves as a far more understandable, well-respected and ultimately successful business. The HODINKEE limited edition shows just how highly the brand would be revered with the right product.
Last edited by cmcm3; 1st January 2017 at 23:02.
Love Zenith, had a Rainbow Flyback, sold, then an Elite Defy, sold that too, then got this...
Keeping hold of this one.
My perfect modern vintage
Last edited by AlexL; 2nd January 2017 at 18:13.
The 38mm el primero reissue is absolutely a wannabuy gorgeous. Not sure they still make it though...
What do you mean by that ?
Also, newbie question, what damage did he do? (I like Zenith vintage watches but don't know much about the recent history).
Last edited by Plume; 1st January 2017 at 23:58.
The business-for-sale direction?
+1. My second Zenith is the 69 EP reissue...
Manufacturers often get reissues wrong IMHO.
Zenith got it spot on with this one.
...& it's a keeper.
z
Do we have LVMH outlets, that sell from all their ranges, in this country?
The TAG shop in Biscter village used to stock Zenith... The TAG shop I was planning to go to tomorrow to see what Zeniths they had in stock... Typical :)
As some has eluded, you can find Zenith pieces in Tag outlet shops but no more. Obviously there are only selected pieces but they do have a fair range. Did anyone also notice that discount on Zenith is less readily available?
I am just worried where pricing is heading towards. It looks like they want to consolidate their position and reduce discount and this could go either way.
From what I read he encouraged extreme designs, big sizes at 45mm lots of open heart style with very high rrp's. The business almost crashed during the credit crunch. Result was they reduced the range and suffered lay offs. They still go with some open heart models on their El Primero's but have started to go back to more classic and understated.
http://www.ablogtowatch.com/ceo-pres...recious-lover/
I think this is a great example of the hideous tat put out by Nataf- the current CEO is much much more sensible but still focuses on 42mm sized watches when the el Primero was designed for a 38mm case - I think a compromise on 40mm for most models would have been more sensible. I hope they survive and very much look forward to some 2019 historic re-releases
Last edited by IanBear; 2nd January 2017 at 12:23. Reason: Autocorrect
Thanks gents, this makes it much more clear. Gee, that thing is horrid. Also hope they can manage whatever transition they're in.
Do I remember right that the flirtation with Sellita movements was short-lived? Or are the models built around them still in production?
A friend of mine works for an AD is glasgow and she was telling me a few things, one was that they were trying to get rid of Zenith as its wasted space for them, they are not selling. But..Zenith keeps discounting the products for them to sweeten the deals etc. but its not working.,
Wanted a Felix B Striking 10th but couldn't track down anywhere. Iconic couldn't even source at the time. 2nd choice was the Stratos Spindrift which I did buy
That is stunning!Wanted a Felix B Striking 10th but couldn't track down anywhere. Iconic couldn't even source at the time. 2nd choice was the Stratos Spindrift which I did buy
I am a Zenith fan too, in particular the vintage el primero range.
I think they have made quite a few good moves recently. I guess the deals with unrelated brands are perhaps aimed at building awareness and positive associations in the minds of those who are relatively new to the brand. Not so much the connoisseurs. That may be key to the brand's future growth.
While Zenith has vastly improved from their Nataf-era atrocities, they ought to act more like a legitimate watchmaker by nurturing a distinctive style that works and sticking with it, instead of tarnishing the range with so many naff fashion watches and poorly-thought-out limited editions.
Their watches are occasionally fantastic — the lovely Vintage 1969 example pictured a few posts ago shows them at their best, though the A385 and A386 originals immediately above remain unbeatable — but they would still benefit by continuing to cut the crap, as a regrettable amount of it still remains.
They're blessed with a great name and logo, one of the very best and with history to back it up. They also have a range of almost lovely watches that are just slightly wide of the mark, they just need a little tweak. Hodinkee showed them the way with their special edition, which looked every inch a Zenith, but somehow they hadn't managed on their own to get the magic combination of size and dial in spite of all the variations on the theme. Just a tiny tweak to the details here and there and a greater choice of size and they would have a great range.
it's brand awareness isn't it. Ask watch nerds who made the El Primero and 99% are going to give you the right answer. Ask general members of the public and it will be 1%. When you get the balance moving more towards halfway you end up with a successful brand like Rolex or Omega.
Zenith would be probably better to be under Swatch ownership who despite their initial underwhelming support of Longine would probably niche them better and tell the story better. ( Zenith do have a lot to say )
Maybe the big players could do a transfer, Zenith in , Jaquet Droz out.
Like many, I have a great deal of time and affection for Zenith and would like to see the brand being more successful. Interestingly, Fraser Hart in Cambridge took Zenith on late last year at the expense of B&M, but the manager quietly admitted to me last time we talked that stock turns are slow and it's a tricky brand for the high street. Shame, because it's got the heritage and some very lovely models (albeit too many variants, as others have noted).
With the right kind of CEO and some care and attention, you can imagine Zenith being up there (in popularity stakes, I mean) with Breitling and maybe even Omega.
SGR
I'm not sure the general public really knows about watch brands beyond Rolex, Omega, Seiko and Swatch.... (maybe Tag Heuer and Breitling?).
B&M appears to register more in the jewelery type, a few notches beneath Cartier.
They'll know all about Micheal Kors, or one of them Wellingtons, or, I want an Armani!
Zenith appear to have been a bit lost for a while now. I wonder if being a true independent might be best for them.
I like Zenith a lot but there is very little in their present range that grabs me. I wish they can concentrate on more mainstream pieces rather than all the fancy collaboration.
Anyway this has been a grail of mine for some time. I had great difficulty tracking one down but found this one when I was travelling in Europe this Summer. It has been sitting in a safe and despite not having the paperwork, I simply can't resist. I like the fact it is a faithful tribute to the original.
Wearing my Captain Winsor today and just wondering whether lack of knowledge/perception of the Zenith brand is peculiar to the UK?
A short film from an event they sponsored last summer.
I appreciate the Range Rover collaboration did not get much love but I have just purchased the strap and installed it onto my Striking 10th and it seems to work!
2017 will be a big year for Zenith I feel, It is on record that Biver is dedicating more time to the brand so will be interesting to see which way it goes. Will it go Blancpain or will it go Hublot? :)
If you think Zenith is little known in the UK I believe there are around 14 or so retailers in the whole of the US!
Wow, that's lovely.Anyway this has been a grail of mine for some time. I had great difficulty tracking one down but found this one when I was travelling in Europe this Summer. It has been sitting in a safe and despite not having the paperwork, I simply can't resist. I like the fact it is a faithful tribute to the original.
I have a thing for square watches and that's an excellent implementation of one.
Any idea why not?
I only recently became aware of the collaboration and it seems fine to me -- the brand images certainly don't seem to clash, at the very least.
Current direction of travel in industry is failure and consolidation - I'd expect to see more independents go the other way.
After seeing one on the wrist of a certain watch industry CEO I was quite taken aback by the watch, they are quite lovely in the flesh and as a rule I am personally not that keen on black watches. It managed to balance a classic Zenith look with the PVD twist without coming across as too brash or sporty. I initially thought it was some form of vintage watch or vintage replica prototype.
My comment refereed to most of the coverage on the interweb seems to see the WIS bash the watch because it states Ranger Rover on the dial but from my vantage point it was almost imperceptible. Would it appeal to a wider market without this on the dial? Maybe.
Interestingly Revolution have just posted that the current CEO has just resigned, with a suggestion that Biver is looking to take them in a new direction...
I think that Aldo Magada has done a solid if unspectacular job at the helm so it will be interesting to see where the brand goes...
This is a really interesting thread to me.
I am not a Zenith expert although I do really like my vintage Zenith and I would be seriously interested in an El Primero 1969. However, this stands out like the company's shining star amongst a load of similar watches with skeleton dials and sub-dials which look just weird. Not sure what the tie-in with the Rolling Stones is all about either ! The cost of an El Primero 1969 is quite a lot and I would like a company to be around to service/provide spares if need-be for some time to come.
A lack of confidence in this is making me reluctant to purchase at this moment in time.
I will definitely keep an eye on this thread.
Regards
Gary
Really strange thread.
The company is around for 150 years, why it should vanish?
Would Biver giving them his especial attention be anything other than good news?
Its a fine looking watch but as a non-Range Rover owner I wouldn't want the branding and realistically how many Range Rover owners want the watch? Its daft.
It would if he applies the Hublot logic again. I think it works for Tag but not for Zenith.
I think Zenith with its El Primero movement is too big to fail but it is a brand that is stuck and not heading in any direction. I don't think its recent collaborations help its appeal. Maybe Mr Biver can inject some of his magic to the brand but not in the direction of Hublot imo.
Interesting, thanks.
It does seem to work for Bentley and Breitling. ;-)
Forgot to share this interview with Biver. The focus is on how he changed TAG, but behind the detail the principles are clear:
http://watchesbysjx.com/2016/11/inte...tag-heuer.html
Quote from article published last year -
TAG Heuer is awake, as is Hublot. Zenith, by comparison is, in Biver’s words, “suffering.” The traditional brand was guilty of placing too many eggs in one basket during the years of plenty at the beginning of this decade. “From 2011 to 2013, Zenith was so strong; but it did 67 per cent of its turnover in Asia. They have lost probably 30 per cent [of their Chinese customers] due to the Chinese slow-down. This is why Zenith is doing minus 8 per cent, like the Swiss watch industry.”
Biver has recently begun focusing his attentions on the old brand. Few would bet against him turning it around. “You can safely count Jean-Claude among the giants in the industry,” says Solca. “His vision and competence in watches can be compared to that of the best entrepreneurs we have seen in this business in the past 30 years.”
https://www.businessoffashion.com/ar...e-the-world-is
Very interesting!
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