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Hardly a justification for them to suffer in that way. 'Oh well we're killing them anyway so it doesn't matter?'Originally Posted by adg31
We have a responsibility of care for animals, even if they are raised for food.
Told you they were very intelligent, didn't I?
Hardly a justification for them to suffer in that way. 'Oh well we're killing them anyway so it doesn't matter?'
We have a responsibility of care for animals, even if they are raised for food.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Personally wouldn't want a garden full of them. It I wouldn't have a clue how to stop them coming back
I'm not sure whether anything can be "completely decimated" given that decimate means kill one in ten
Life of the party.
My point was that rooks do not generally, if ever, attack lambs therefore the slaughter of rooks is equally unjustified given how we then treat lambs within our food chain.
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Last edited by adg31; 30th July 2019 at 18:46.
How do we treat lambs in our food chain precisely?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
If you want to kill & eat a Magpie go right ahead.
Grown as a food source, herded into a transport and slaughtered. It may be done humanely, I may be a meat eater but it doesn't mean that I like the thought of what is done on my behalf.
The truth is that if I had to kill to feed myself I may well be joining rooks with a vegetarian diet.
If you want more detail please visit your local abattoir and let me know if you would be happy to treat humans in the same way.
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I've been to an abattoir many a time as a kid and I have vivid memories of animals being herded to their deaths. Pigs, which are a very intelligent animal, eyes bulging as they watch the other members of their team meet a violent & bloody death. Cows taking a captive bolt to the head, throats cut, then being skinned almost before they hit the floor, the steaming flayed corpses being winched high to join the rest of the herd. Put me off killing a bit.
Magpies.....
No comment
Usually with a bit of Rosemary and a bit of mint sauce
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Are you a vegan, or do you just want someone other than yourself to kill your animal?
mike
You’re happy for it to happen as long as someone does it for you.
I don’t need to visit an abattoir, if necessary I can and have killed for food.
I don’t see the fact that we raise animals for food having anything to do with vermin control, especially if said vermin are causing unnecessary suffering to the animals in our care.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
So back to my original point, I do not recall much evidence that rooks attack lambs causing unnecessary suffering and they seem to manage just fine as a species without being controlled by humans.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...newborn-lambs/
flying rats, they dont have any natural predators afaik and the population seems to be growing well - myself and a neighbour counted over 20 of the bloody things on the front lawns one morning.
Your original point was that controlling rooks was unjustified ‘given how we then treat lambs within our food chain’.
Which you could apply to any predators attacking lambs or livestock.
So lambs should not be protected from predators simply because they would eventually be slaughtered. Nah.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Rooks are not predators:)
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I salute them. Literally.
Weirdly, up here in rural Norfolk I rarely see a Magpie, in fact since moving from London 4 years ago I’m amazed how many more bird species there are here - reminds my of my youth in the 70’s. Same with foxes - my London street was awash with them, not seen a single one in Norfolk. Having made a few farming friends up here it’s apparent how little I understand the countryside, I think it’s a lot more complicated than I ever understood as a ‘townie’. They also seem far more aware of the natural world with a real respect for nature that I wasn’t really expecting. Quite an eye opener
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I never said they were.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Slight tangent but on the wasp thing...
I had a wasps nest in my garden, it’s a small garden and you’d think from all the fuss people make getting rid of them we’d have been constantly attacked by them. Quite interestingly I never had them come near me either in the garden or in the house. I left them to it and used to go stand by the nest and just watch them in action, they’d come out and instantly fly in one direction along a set path. I often wondered if they had a ‘don’t crap on your own doorstep’ instinct?
I went out one day to see them and the nest was dead, no movement at all. I’d assumed they’d moved on. I decided to cut the nest in half to see the genius of their construction only to find many headless bodies and just two very dopey looking hornets that were all but dead yet just still alive.
doesn't sound any more humane than halal to me
Can’t be bothered to read all the posts but the ones I have so far lead me to believe-
Too many people feel they have god like powers of decision to kill for the sake of old wives tales.
Too many people talk about wielding air weapons like its normal to walk around your suburbia garden shooting at Magpies, bring on a section 5 firearms charge to yourself why not.
I have several Airguns and would not step out of my house with one unless it was bagged.
As you said, you never read the posts.
Rarely see a magpie around here.
A lot of Rooks/Carrion crows on the freshly cut field behind me though but rarely see them in the garden, although we do get the occasional Jay.
Cheers,
Neil.
As far as I understand it, you can shoot paper targets in your garden as long as you’re away from any roads or pathways, and there’s no danger of pellets leaving your land. As for pigeons - I’d rather shoot paper targets
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Rooks are not Ravens are not Rooks.
Justifying the killing of Rooks (or Magpies) because some Ravens in Scotland have developed a successful method of getting a meal seems a bit desperate.
Maybe the lambs need to be in sheds for a bit longer, it’s what we used to do. But you can make more cash breeding more lambs than you have proper space for I suppose.
But anyway, kill Magpies in your garden if the fancy takes you, but be prepared to answer in court as to why you felt it necessary should one of your neighbours complain.
Lol.. as a Man U fan had a few great days and nights in Sam plats think it was called and a few others on the street
One of the best nights out for a Scotsman
Totally agree. What is it with people who always want to shoot and kill everything? No wonder species go extinct at a daily basis if you look at all the reactions here that automatically treat those birds as vermin and 'get out the (air)guns'. They are just birds, intelligent ones at that. Highly regarded in Asian countries. National symbol of (South) Korea.
Pesonally I lke them as well. We have one or two pairs frequently foraging in our yard. Beautiful birds. (OK, it's a 1.5 acre yard in the French countryside and nature is running wild here anyway, they have no reason to try and survive in a concreted-over environment because they can choose from a million trees to live in).
I don’t think many species are ‘going extinct’ because of shooting, apart from some notable exceptions in Africa due to poaching.
The influence of man is far more stealthy and insidious, in the name of progress.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Magpies can’t be that clever as they keep thinking my golf balls are eggs and flying off with them after swooping down on the 9th fairway. Probably the only way I’d get a birdie on that hole😀
It's ridiculously easy to understand.
Fixed that for you...
I just think that anyone who shoots a thing dead because he "doesn't like" it, or for "fun", or "sport", is very messed up.
Get yourself into a sport where you actually experience opposition from someone or something that in some way intentionally challenges you.
There are words for people who deliberately harm things in a weaker position than themselves... "coward" and "bully" being two l can use in this part of the forum. Weak people.
Runts given power.
a good wide opinion base is good to read...
My update being one of the little blighters had a punch up with a seagull this sweetened - some scrap I can tell you - seemed to initially be over some spilled crisps in the street - 30 mins later and the magpie's mates turned up - give them their dues - the seagull got smashed. proper seen off the area too.
Is this normal behaviour?
I struggle to eat a pie full of them
RIAC
I can't abide football though I used to like the owls.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Excellent, and yes very normal. Corvids are even cleverer than seagulls, and gulls are no slouches.
My dog loves them, she used to hunt the crows in our back garden but as they have been supplanted by magpies this year she has turned her attention to these new flavoured visitors.
Only two so far this summer (she got eight crows last year) but the it's made the noisey buggers far less eager to strut about and show off.
They are handsome but pernicious birds and I completely understand peoples dislike of them, I haven't seen our regular jays since the magpies turned up in force either (mind you that could be the dogs doing as well)...
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