Fellows Auction Birmingham

[JFW]

Does anyone have any experience with Fellows Auctions in Birmingham UK.

I have my eye on a Heuer in their upcoming sale and I was wondering what anyone thought of their descriptions ?

Cheers

JW


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[Haywood_Milton]

Decent company which tries to point out salient matters of authenticity and uses photographs to indicate general condition. If you have a specific question about a watch you can contact them, as they have a designated Watch Team.

For this level of watch it is difficult to think of a better auction house in the UK, though Gardiner Houlgate is also worthy of your consideration.

One (of several) that you should avoid is Humbert & Ellis, more about which you can read here if you find the thread about a “£2k DRSD” (which wasn’t).

[IanV]

I've sold a few items through them in the past. I found them very professional and great customer service

[g40steve]

Stephen’s so funny when he does his talks.

[Haywood_Milton]

Stephen’s so funny when he does his talks.

Indeed, quite naughty. I’ve heard him speak maybe a dozen times and shared a platform or even done a joint talk with him on several occasions. He is a friend.

[gcleminson]

Decent company which tries to point out salient matters of authenticity and uses photographs to indicate general condition. If you have a specific question about a watch you can contact them, as they have a designated Watch Team.

For this level of watch it is difficult to think of a better auction house in the UK, though Gardiner Houlgate is also worthy of your consideration.

One (of several) that you should avoid is Humbert & Ellis, more about which you can read here if you find the thread about a “£2k DRSD” (which wasn’t).

I'd be interested to hear your view on this Haywood, from the same sale:

"Dial is a third-party aftermarket item"

https://www.fellows.co.uk/2551-lot-2...bracelet-watch

[RS404]

Remember to factor in buyer's commission which is a very substantial 23%+VAT.

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[Haywood_Milton]

I'd be interested to hear your view on this Haywood, from the same sale:

"Dial is a third-party aftermarket item"

https://www.fellows.co.uk/2551-lot-2...bracelet-watch

I believe that statement is correct. Inter alia, the coronet's mouth gapes like an American's when one uses phrases like "inter alia."

Remember to factor in buyer's commission which is a very substantial 23%+VAT.

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That's sensible advice which it seems many bidders don't follow. Fellows' commission is a fair bit more at many other auction houses.

Writing in general terms, I do find it hard to support the increase in buyer's commission in the last twenty years. What was once 15% + VAT is now 25% + VAT or more, while generally the items themselves have increased dramatically in value. All businesses have faced a great increase in compliance and employment costs in recent decades, but when your fees are a percentage and the transaction values themselves have increased it does seem fruity.

[gcleminson]

I believe that statement is correct. Inter alia, the coronet's mouth gapes like an American's when one uses phrases like "inter alia."

I've no doubt, I was thinking more from the POV of them openly selling a fake. Or at least, a watch with some faked elements.

[sweets]

Writing in general terms, I do find it hard to support the increase in buyer's commission in the last twenty years. What was once 15% + VAT is now 25% + VAT or more, while generally the items themselves have increased dramatically in value. All businesses have faced a great increase in compliance and employment costs in recent decades, but when your fees are a percentage and the transaction values themselves have increased it does seem fruity.

Not only that but the advent of collected searching facilities like The Saleroom mean that anything which is correctly described can be found in an instant by a much larger audience, so the days of many valuable lots slipping through the net are long gone.
The prices are higher, the realisation of values is higher and still the fees are higher. Good times for people like them.
Dave

[Haywood_Milton]

I've no doubt, I was thinking more from the POV of them openly selling a fake. Or at least, a watch with some faked elements.

Would it be fair to call it a fake if the case, movement and bracelet are genuine, but just an original dial plate re-painted?

When a MOMO steering wheel is fitted to a Nova 1.2, may it no longer be considered the Vauxhall classic that 17 year olds in reclined seats and a cannabis stupor race around city centres with pride?

Third party / customised / after-market parts are everywhere and I have a lot more sympathy for sellers who identify them with full disclosure.....unlike many of the "respectable" jewellers selling BQW-sourced watches without any explicit indication that their watches bear major components of perceived high value that are not of Rolex manufacture.

[gcleminson]

Would it be fair to call it a fake if the case, movement and bracelet are genuine, but just an original dial plate re-painted?

When a MOMO steering wheel is fitted to a Nova 1.2, may it no longer be considered the Vauxhall classic that 17 year olds in reclined seats and a cannabis stupor race around city centres with pride?

Third party / customised / after-market parts are everywhere and I have a lot more sympathy for sellers who identify them with full disclosure.....unlike many of the "respectable" jewellers selling BQW-sourced watches without any explicit indication that their watches bear major components of perceived high value that are not of Rolex manufacture.

Your posts never fail to entertain Haywood, thank you. Terrible analogy though :-) If the dial said MOMO I'd agree with you, but the dial bears the Rolex logo and as declared by Fellows, this is not an original Rolex part. It's not an aftermarket dial, or a third party dial, but a fake dial. I'm sure their lot description is accurate and they're clearly being open about it, but I'm just surprised they would agree sell it is all.

[Sean89]

I have never purchased from fellows but I have found their descriptions basic but good.

If they haven’t been able to open the watch they will state that, if it’s Franken they state unsigned quartz etc.

For less desirable models (non Rolex!) even with the steep commission the prices are reasonable and then you takes your chances on timekeeping and needing a service etc.

[Haywood_Milton]

Terrible analogy though :-) If the dial said MOMO I'd agree with you....

Ok, let's tweak it. If the chromed "NOVA" badge falls off my purple banger and I replace it with a tasteful matt-black "NOVA" sticker from "VinylDecals2go.com", have I then made it fake?

[gcleminson]

Ok, let's tweak it. If the chromed "NOVA" badge falls off my purple banger and I replace it with a tasteful matt-black "NOVA" sticker from "VinylDecals2go.com", have I then made it fake?

Do your friends at VinylDecals2go.com have a licencing agreement with Vauxhall?

[Haywood_Milton]

Do your friends at VinylDecals2go.com have a licencing agreement with Vauxhall?

I would imagine not, but the question is whether the car itself is still a Nova, or if it is rendered a fake by the sticker.

Would Vauxhall service it? Of course.

To be clear, I am no fan of aftermarket or custom parts and won’t source them for clients, but I have a lot more time for people selling with full disclosure than those who don’t say anything and offer a Rolex with all sorts of third party elements —- typically priced as if original.

[gcleminson]

I would imagine not, but the question is whether the car itself is still a Nova, or a fake ?

To be clear, I am no fan of aftermarket or custom parts and won’t source them for clients, but I have a lot more time for people selling with full disclosure than those who don’t say anything and offer a Rolex with all sorts of third party elements —- typically priced as if original.

It's a Nova with a fake steering wheel.

I know your views, and I know you know I'm having a bit of fun. Just a touch surprised they were auctioning it, full disclosure or not.

[Padders]

Would it be fair to assume, Haywood, that you aren’t speaking from personal experience here? Your ‘boy racer’ days surely involved a Gorgon Keeble or similar stylish Gentleman's conveyance. Or so one would hope.

[pugster]

ive purchased from fellows several times and found their descriptions to be good (though as always and if possible take a look at it yourself) , that said over the last few years with the amount they added to sales percentage when you add everything on top of your bid most things seem to be selling close to retail now.

*in the general area we have

fellows (jewelry quarter)
biddle and webb
fieldings (stourbridge)
astons (dudley)
cuttlestones (wolvo)

[oconnorp]

Bought a few watches from them over the years. Yes the premiums are steep, but you get high quality photos and decent descriptions / authentications, the team is quite responsive, access to archives, and they will post RMSD which is always a consideration.

If anything the commission is on the sellers take home as it doesn’t effect a bidders total amount willing to pay! (If you do your sums right)


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[Padders]

Bought a few watches from them over the years. Yes the premiums are steep, but you get high quality photos and decent descriptions / authentications, the team is quite responsive, access to archives, and they will post RMSD which is always a consideration.

If anything the commission is on the sellers take home as it doesn’t effect a bidders total amount willing to pay! (If you do your sums right)


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Not sure if I understand your point here. Fellow charge both the seller and buyer a hefty commission, something of the order of 20% of the hammer price to the seller and ~25-30% to the buyer. They clear something approaching 50% of the hammer price on every sale, nice work if you can get it.

Ah I get it, you mean that a canny buyer will simply add on 30% mentally when bidding? Understood.

[AKM]

I saw a strange looking Fortis Flieger a couple of months back, the dial and hands appeared to be after market, (white hand set was odd, serifs on the dial too strong) though fakes of these are common place and complete kits are available on eBay.

It was also incorrectly described as being titanium on a titanium bracelet whereas these were to my knowledge only available in bead blasted steel. I'd say it was perhaps it was 'a piece unique', but their picture of the case back showed it to clearly have 'stainless steel' stamped on it.

Just one example, but I'd say buyer beware. I lose confidence quickly, particularly if the description is inaccurate.

lot 334, model ref 595.10.46.1

You can't view their past auctions without subscribing, but the description and one picture are on a third party site. Here's a link:
https://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots...7.11.18-fellow

[aaf1982]

Does anyone have any experience with Fellows Auctions in Birmingham UK.

I have my eye on a Heuer in their upcoming sale and I was wondering what anyone thought of their descriptions ?

Cheers

JW


Sent from my iPad using TZ-UK mobile app

Yes the commission is steep as others have pointed out, but I would also rank them as one of the top watch auction places. Give good detailed descriptions and pics and have a good watch team.

How'd you get on bidding for the Heuer?

[farmkid]

I sold a watch with them once- very professional to deal with.......but nothing could have prepared me for the chunk of cash they took from me
in return for selling the watch! Even knowing the commission rates up front I just couldn’t quite rationalise them making so much money from both buyer and seller.
In future I would definitely stick with enthusiast sales forums

[oconnorp]

Not sure if I understand your point here. Fellow charge both the seller and buyer a hefty commission, something of the order of 20% of the hammer price to the seller and ~25-30% to the buyer. They clear something approaching 50% of the hammer price on every sale, nice work if you can get it.

Ah I get it, you mean that a canny buyer will simply add on 30% mentally when bidding? Understood.

Exactly - essentially the seller is ‘paying’ for this, the buyer should have a max price and shouldn’t care how the pie is split!

I am fairly eBay savvy so it sounds crazy to me, but I’d imagine they have a healthy book of clients who don’t want anything to do with selling and are happy to pay 50% for the reach Fellows has.


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[ac11111]

I sold a watch with them once- very professional to deal with.......but nothing could have prepared me for the chunk of cash they took from me
in return for selling the watch! Even knowing the commission rates up front I just couldn’t quite rationalise them making so much money from both buyer and seller.
In future I would definitely stick with enthusiast sales forums

Auctions do make a ton of money for not much value add IMO.

Absent of fourms, asking a well known dealer to sell on commission much better hassle free alternative to auctions, plenty of dealers provides this service now also. Seller sets net proceeds they are happy to sell for, buyer gets guarantee from dealer and may get a better price also, dealer does not need to provide upfront capital, seems a win for all.

[Mark lowman]

Not sure if I understand your point here. Fellow charge both the seller and buyer a hefty commission, something of the order of 20% of the hammer price to the seller and ~25-30% to the buyer. They clear something approaching 50% of the hammer price on every sale, nice work if you can get it.

Ah I get it, you mean that a canny buyer will simply add on 30% mentally when bidding? Understood.

I got my sale commission knocked when I sold ( might depend on the watch I suppose )Worth asking when selling as the buyer always had to pay commission so they have a guaranteed income flow
When the world returns to normal you could always handle the watches in the Mayfair show rooms which is excellent for anyone south based

[Padders]

I got my sale commission knocked when I sold ( might depend on the watch I suppose )Worth asking when selling as the buyer always had to pay commission so they have a guaranteed income flow
When the world returns to normal you could always handle the watches in the Mayfair show rooms which is excellent for anyone south based

I know Stephen in a professional capacity, I work about 100 yards from his B'ham hq so I have experience and a little success in talking the seller fees down. Having asked around it seems they wont take them lower than 10% even for trade, which is mad when you think that the London tier 1 houses will sell at zero seller fee if the item is interesting. Selling a high value watch? Don't consign it to Fellows as if you go to Sotherbys, Phillips etc it'll cost you nowt and you'll be fishing in a much larger pond. Or so I hear from the likes of William Roberts, who buys and sells rare Speedmasters for fun

[Mark lowman]

I know Stephen in a professional capacity, I work about 100 yards from his B'ham hq so I have experience and a little success in talking the seller fees down. Having asked around it seems they wont take them lower than 10% even for trade, which is mad when you think that the London tier 1 houses will sell at zero seller fee if the item is interesting. Selling a high value watch? Don't consign it to Fellows as if you go to Sotherbys, Phillips etc it'll cost you nowt and you'll be fishing in a much larger pond. Or so I hear from the likes of William Roberts, who buys and sells rare Speedmasters for fun

I’ll take your point . I must have got lucky either way i didn’t get charged commission.
I’d bought a few previously through them so maybe that helped