Found my stolen watch on Chrono

[GC2012]

Believe me, defrauding someone else is not going to help you.

Great that you found the watch, now let the police do their work. The watch is yours, the unfortunate seller will have to chase the person they have bought it from for a refund. Chrono will have the name of the seller, so all will be good if you just calm down and let things fall into place.

Genuine question but how would I be defrauding someone who 'could' potentially be selling my items knowing they are stolen?
Lets say I went down this route and Chrono came after me how would they have a leg to stand on when I can prove its stolen and mine?

My only concern is when this happened I left it to the police and nothing happened, the watch kept bouncing around Europe and I would catch wind of it and the police didn't react. The spanish police wont do anything at all (I have a lawyer too who basically said that is a loss lead over here), the dutch officer is helping me out of kindness for helping him but he is in the major crime unit and really not his line of work plus its on top of his workload. Chrono will apparently contact the police if they see fit but how long could that take?

If the watch is sold this week then its very very unlikely I will see it again.

Fingers crossed it goes to plan but I genuinely dont have much trust in the police from past experience with this.

[Raffe]

Genuine question but how would I be defrauding someone who 'could' potentially be selling my items knowing they are stolen?
Lets say I went down this route and Chrono came after me how would they have a leg to stand on when I can prove its stolen and mine?

My only concern is when this happened I left it to the police and nothing happened, the watch kept bouncing around Europe and I would catch wind of it and the police didn't react. The spanish police wont do anything at all (I have a lawyer too who basically said that is a loss lead over here), the dutch officer is helping me out of kindness for helping him but he is in the major crime unit and really not his line of work plus its on top of his workload. Chrono will apparently contact the police if they see fit but how long could that take?

If the watch is sold this week then its very very unlikely I will see it again.

Fingers crossed it goes to plan but I genuinely dont have much trust in the police from past experience with this.

If you buy the watch via Chrono24, you have a payment obligation to Chrono24. Try to pull a fast one on them at your own risk, it has nothing to do with the fact that the watch is yours.

If you want to have the watch, let the police do their job. Anything else is trouble on yourself for no benefit.

[Mitch]

Genuine question but how would I be defrauding someone who 'could' potentially be selling my items knowing they are stolen?
Lets say I went down this route and Chrono came after me how would they have a leg to stand on when I can prove its stolen and mine?

My only concern is when this happened I left it to the police and nothing happened, the watch kept bouncing around Europe and I would catch wind of it and the police didn't react. The spanish police wont do anything at all (I have a lawyer too who basically said that is a loss lead over here), the dutch officer is helping me out of kindness for helping him but he is in the major crime unit and really not his line of work plus its on top of his workload. Chrono will apparently contact the police if they see fit but how long could that take?

If the watch is sold this week then its very very unlikely I will see it again.

Fingers crossed it goes to plan but I genuinely dont have much trust in the police from past experience with this.

You are right you cannot 'steal' your own property. You most take care though not to commit a different criminal offence in recovering your property (breaking and entering etc).

The person in possession of these goods can not have acquired good title to them (save having purchased them at an approved police auction). Indeed he is currently handling stolen goods, which is an offence and it would be up to him to prove his innocence (no presumption) by showing that he did not and has not subsequently, acted dishonestly in acquiring and keeping them...........................

"If the goods came into a defendant’s possession, and they were not aware that the goods were stolen, an argument for honesty may be presented. Or if a person receives stolen goods intending to return them to the owner, or law enforcement, they would not be charged with handling stolen goods as the offence was not committed dishonestly.

Deciding whether a defendant acted dishonestly can be a difficult case for the court and during trials courts often take into account the facts a defendant knew at the time of the offence and whether the behaviour appropriated compares by the standards of “ordinary people”.



Mitch

[Saint-Just]

Genuine question but how would I be defrauding someone who 'could' potentially be selling my items knowing they are stolen?
Lets say I went down this route and Chrono came after me how would they have a leg to stand on when I can prove its stolen and mine?

The person who holds your watch is probably not the original thief. If he releases the watch against your escrow and you then rescind it, you will have done to someone else exactly what the thief did to you.

[GC2012]

The person who holds your watch is probably not the original thief. If he releases the watch against your escrow and you then rescind it, you will have done to someone else exactly what the thief did to you.

Fair enough, they can then go back to the seller who they bought it from and start legal proceedings like I have been doing for 3 years.

Just cause a seller might not know does not them in any way shape or form a free pass.
Its my watch which I worked and saved for, I lost out. If it comes back to me and they lose out then its a lesson they will learn like I did too and they can try to reclaim the money. At the end of the day someone is going to lose out in this whole cycle one way or another and its been me for 3 years.

[Saint-Just]

Fair enough, they can then go back to the seller who they bought it from and start legal proceedings like I have been doing for 3 years.

Just cause a seller might not know does not them in any way shape or form a free pass.
Its my watch which I worked and saved for, I lost out. If it comes back to me and they lose out then its a lesson they will learn like I did too and they can try to reclaim the money. At the end of the day someone is going to lose out in this whole cycle one way or another and its been me for 3 years.

They will have to do that anyway; the watch is yours but can only be returned to you by a lawful procedure. You would probably end up with your watch back (ultimately) but would have to sell it to pay for your lawyers' fees, and would have a record.

[Swissz]

Perhaps a lawyer will explain it better, but can the watch be considered "stolen" in this situation? To me it sounds like breach of trust. You've handed over the item to a third party willingly. I fear you might have a case to chase the person that scammed you, but recovering the item will be more difficult because it was not forcefully taken out of your ownership?

I might be wrong though.

Really hopeful you get it back. Inserting serial numbers on c24 sales and automatic check with all relevant authorities is a great idea.

[Raffe]

Perhaps a lawyer will explain it better, but can the watch be considered "stolen" in this situation? To me it sounds like breach of trust. You've handed over the item to a third party willingly. I fear you might have a case to chase the person that scammed you, but recovering the item will be more difficult because it was not forcefully taken out of your ownership?

I might be wrong though.

Really hopeful you get it back. Inserting serial numbers on c24 sales and automatic check with all relevant authorities is a great idea.

It's clearly fraud, but whether you have title to the watch is doubtful. You may have a monetary claim against the seller only, as you agreed to sell and the seller defaulted on the payment.

[Mitch]

It's clearly fraud, but whether you have title to the watch is doubtful. You may have a monetary claim against the seller only, as you agreed to sell and the seller defaulted on the payment.

Goods obtained by deception are stolen goods and title remains with the person deceived into parting with them .......



"Under s24 of the Act 1968, stolen goods are any goods acquired through theft, deception, or blackmail"



Mitch

[Rodder]

The person who holds your watch is probably not the original thief. If he releases the watch against your escrow and you then rescind it, you will have done to someone else exactly what the thief did to you.

It’s possible they’re not the original thief but I’m not sure it’s probable. Most adverts on C24 aren’t from individuals which says something. Either they don’t want to go to a dealer as they stole it, or they’ve been to a dealer and realise it’s been stolen.

[Foxy100]

What's the situation if a future buyer sends the watch to Rolex for a service? If the serial number is on their stolen register, will they confiscate it and return it to the OP?

[Mitch]

What's the situation if a future buyer sends the watch to Rolex for a service? If the serial number is on their stolen register, will they confiscate it and return it to the OP?

They should hold the goods and notify the Police they are holding the goods awaiting collection or further instruction from them.

[Speedy2254]

What's the situation if a future buyer sends the watch to Rolex for a service? If the serial number is on their stolen register, will they confiscate it and return it to the OP?

Ask Paul Thorpe, he had a Pepsi stolen which turned up in Italy. It went in for a service, which is how it was discovered. Rolex retained it but, despite the Italian & British police confirming his ownership, Rolex won't return it to him.
He used to talk about it a lot...

[Raffe]

Ask Paul Thorpe, he had a Pepsi stolen which turned up in Italy. It went in for a service, which is how it was discovered. Rolex retained it but, despite the Italian & British police confirming his ownership, Rolex won't return it to him.
He used to talk about it a lot...

Hands up who believes a single word that PT utters.

[GC2012]

A further update after a heated conversation with customer service..
It is a public holiday today so we have to wait another day for a possible update..

I have told them I will be in touch first thing in the morning to speak with someone at management level as the way this has been dealt with is appalling. If we are lucky we will get the info tomorrow, if not then Monday when they re-open, so the seller has had a full week to do as they wish.

If the watch has gone, which I suspect it has then I will not let this drop with Chrono and not only looking to get legal advice I will shame them on every platform possible.

The security know the severity of the case and to not even bother to update us or inform us its a holiday today is ridiculous.

Also just to add.. I know of another guy who was scammed by this same individual, his Breitling ended up on Chrono with a dodgy dealer in Holland and before any action could be taken it was gone. So this is not the first time its happened that I know of.

Their whole 'verified seller' and security etc is BS too as I have proved, they verified a seller and watch which is marked stolen on countless forums, databases etc.
When listing a watch its not mandatory to enter the serial number too (just name, address..) its an optional field, this should be mandatory and if they want to maintain such a high reputation they should be running basic checks (even on an automated basis) to make sure this does not happen.

Chrono used to be a safe place to buy, especially for people with little knowledge but it makes you wonder how many people are wearing stolen watches unknowingly purchased via Chrono.

[Bestofthebest]

What's the situation if a future buyer sends the watch to Rolex for a service? If the serial number is on their stolen register, will they confiscate it and return it to the OP?

I don't think Rolex maintain a stolen register any more.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/just-...eneral-thorpe/

[Saint-Just]

It’s possible they’re not the original thief but I’m not sure it’s probable. Most adverts on C24 aren’t from individuals which says something. Either they don’t want to go to a dealer as they stole it, or they’ve been to a dealer and realise it’s been stolen.

My reason for saying probable is the 2 years gap between the theft and the sale. Not certain by any stretch but for this kind of money they are usually not that patient, and those who are, are usually clever enough to hide the serial number.