The CL Final you wouldn’t have been in without Llorentes handball goal in the QF ? ;)Originally Posted by thfccambs
Yes me and the other 60,000 in the stadium hung our heads in shame, once the final whistle was blown.
Quality day out, couldn't of happened to a better team...... we've had plenty of bad decisions given against us including a non hand ball in CL final.
LOLZ - forgot about that!Yes me and the other 60,000 in the stadium hung our heads in shame, once the final whistle was blown.
Quality day out, couldn't of happened to a better team...... we've had plenty of bad decisions given against us including a non hand ball in CL final.
Had a very long day reffing in Saudi, the VAR line used has been leaked:The Diaz goal was onside too, VAR team failed to use the lines.
Shocking from the ref team, so many poor calls in the game.
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steady on, you got a decent win against a very good side, but no need to rewrite history, you got about 4 decisions in that game that were iffier than the handball awarded against you in the CL final (and the consensus was afterwards it was correctly awarded)Yes me and the other 60,000 in the stadium hung our heads in shame, once the final whistle was blown.
Quality day out, couldn't of happened to a better team...... we've had plenty of bad decisions given against us including a non hand ball in CL final.
Put billions of pounds into Rugby and you’ll start to see more mistakes.
It evened itself out already this season. Arsenal had a dodgy penalty awarded against Spurs last week.
Liverpool fans stop playing the bloody victims again. Stop it. Every team has shoddy decisions from VAR - Arsenal had one last season against Brentford when Toney scored a clearly offside goal to get a point and again the official was 'stood down'.
Every team gets these bad decisions? Why is it always Liverpool fans who are the most vocal about it?
Sorry my point wasn’t about Liverpool it was just using that as example.
If the decision making is so unreliable it becomes pointless. Either they sort it out or stop using it.
I assume the purpose of VAR was not to amplify the lack of common sense within PGOML?
However, and contradicting myself the initial stats suggested it was a force for good. e.g. 82% correct decisions increased to 94% on key decisions using VAR vs not.
The problem is that it should be closer to 99% as using VAR should make it factual and I can’t comprehend how they’re still making such fundamental errors.
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^ because of time pressures. We all want correct decisions, but we also want them quick so the game flows.
I’d honestly rather bin VAR and accept more errors if it means a goal can be celebrated in real time. Maybe more on pitch or pitch side officials is the answer?
Another reason to give up on this this game was the idiots with the Bradley so called banter.
Shame as all this garbage takes away from some great football being played.
Last edited by Middo; 2nd October 2023 at 08:17.
I'd rather get rid VAR too and perhaps have goal line referee's assistants?
Although truth be told nothing will really be acceptable.
I'm old enough to remember amateur referees in the league and people said that because of errors they should become wholly professional which didn't work out any better.... then VAR.
Cheers,
Neil.
Ryan why do you say things like “ playing the victims “ etc ?
As a grown man it’s just bizzare behaviour. It’s the type of thing 14 year olds kids say.
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Probably just a lot more Liverpool fans out there so more voices. Its not just Liverpool fans on about it either. The whole football community are on about it.
And then the club start issuing statements too .
There’s never this amount of angst when they get the decisions though .
VAR has ruined the game for me - it was meant to be clear and obvious - but thats clearly open to interpretation
Ive moaned on multiple occasions about the crazy hand ball interpretation its my biggest bug bear with football and so inconsistent, I also think with VAR and theese slow motions with tackles you are at risk of a red card in every game nowdays especially with the current interpretation of the rules, as for off-side its laughable if they want more entertainment/goals I cant fathom why they dont revert back to the daylight rule its so easy to do and makes it much easier
Everyone gets decisions going against them and fans accepted that and human error - with VAR theyve made a rod for there own back and yet still get it wrong
We spend more time talking about VAR nowdays and decisions than you do about the game
+1
I’m not anti VAR per se. I think there should be a ton of benefits. Unfortunately it’s the numpties operating it are the problem and their apparent lack of understanding of the rules / accountability.
In any other roles they would have been fired for the level of incompetence displayed week in week out.
The audio file that was played on Talksport recently showed they seem to lack the communication skills required to have a conversation succinctly. Talking over each other and not being clear and concise. Then we Mike Dean admitting to not wanting to put pressure on his mate Anthony Taylor last season. The mistake over the offside for Spurs vs Liverpool is the cherry on the cake for incompetence though.
Whether it’s the pressure to do something quickly and make a decision is the reason, lack of training or something more sinister and corrupt. Who knows? But something has to be done and soon.
Ex players aren’t the answer as they cannot seem to agree and interpret the rules correctly either. Jones’s red card harsh according to Gary Neville, Alan Shearer etc yet Gusto’s for Chelsea vs Villa the previous week was absolutely the right decision according to the panel of experts on motd. Yet Gusto clearly got the ball first and got a lot more of the ball than Jones did. So, they are both red cards or they are both wrong.
Hopefully there will be enough pressure to do something as it clearly ain’t working!
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A this stage the result should stand, it’s done now. However something should be done post the event. A law change so interventions can be made for offside as per red card decisions. Some retraining to is in order for all the officials on the day.
Didn’t you know Ryan is actually 14 - just big (and young) for his age :-) And of course nobody more vocal on here than the man himself.
I’m a fan of VAR in principle, but the more mistakes that are made and the more abuse the officials get, the fewer people will want the job and the talent pool dissolves further. It’s a downward spiral.
Serious question Middo.
Why should something be done now ?
Why not last season when Wolves were on the receiving end of a crap call at Anfield ? Why not when City were denied a perfectly legitimate goal at Anfield last time we played you there ? Or when Salah dived for a penalty against us which wasn’t reviewed? Why now ?
Is it because a decision has actually gone against you ?
The squealing from the fans is bewildering but understandable given their online presence but the fact that the club have issued a statement
effectively accusing PGMOL of cheating is genuinely gobsmacking. I can’t wait to see the t shirts they will have printed up for this.
Genuine answer, I’m not fully behind the clubs response. As this has been one of, if not the biggest howler by PGMOL implementation of VAR. If that isn’t a catalyst combined some other VAR debacles so far this season to get something done then what has to happen next. If the officiating staff have no moral courage to speak up we mistakes are made (we are all human) and foster a just culture then it will never happen.
Genuine question, when did you find contentment with VAR?
Liverpool didn't lose out because of VAR. They lost out despite of it. The on field decision was offside so pre -VAR it would still have been disallowed.
Curtis would have still been on the pitch though………..
For me, it wasn’t even the biggest howler this weekend, never mind of all time.
You know my thoughts on VAR . I think it goes deeper than incompetence but I guess we will never know, certainly not whilst people trot out the tired and false narrative of it evening itself out over a season .
What was a bigger howler than the offside decision and the circumstances surrounding how it was made?
Linesmen can flag offside safe in the knowledge var will bail them out of they are wrong, who knows if the same lino flags offside for that pre var, also Jones would not have been sent off.
I'd say there were 2 Villa goals that should have been disallowed vs Brighton that were pretty bad decisions, also Hwang for Wolves should have been red carded before he scored.
Plenty of shoddy decisions at the weekend.
In terms of equally bad decisions this season surely Onana's foul vs Wolves has to be right up there with the non-penalty awarded after VAR intervention? Luckily Wolves got an apology just like Liverpool did so that makes it all OK......
Last edited by ryanb741; 3rd October 2023 at 07:20.
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VAR's ruined the game, you can't even celebrate a goal any more as everyone's waiting to see if they are checking for an infringement 10 seconds earlier, seems to be getting a lot of big decisions wrong and too easy for the ref's and linesmen to basically wait on VAR to make their decision for them.
Bin it and just keep the goal line technology only.
Couldnt agree more - and please lets get back to the daylight rule for offside
Let’s compare the two incidents .
Both teams lost and we are laying the blame squarely at the officials .
The VAR team at Stockley Park admitted they had it wrong as they thought the Liverpool goal had been given . Amateurish and indefensible but you have to take it at face value that it was a genuine mistake .
At Wolves , Hwang made a clumsy tackle and should’ve been shown a second yellow . He knew it as he lay there with his head in his hands . Pawson chose not to book him which directly affected the outcome of the game . That isn’t a mistake .
That’s either incompetence, for which he should be taken to task for , or it’s something murkier . He was actually promoted to cover the VAR in place of Darren England who committed the error at Spurs .
What didn’t happen though was a huge outpouring of grief , abuse and anger at opposition players, the referee of the game and PGMOL in general demanding answers and the game to be replayed .
For Liverpool FC to come out with that statement is pathetic and small time .
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It amuses me to read the arguments regarding VAR, with VAR you are far more likely to get the correct decision according to the laws of the game whether you like it or not. It works in other sports, football has been far too slow to adopt it and the way it is used is questionable, I think the video ref should make the decision, having the ref walking over to look at a screen and rethink his original decision is flawed in my view. I don't see delayed 'celebrations' as such a problem, I'll accept that if the outcome is the correct decision.
Rugby League and Rugby Union have used video technology for several years, it'll never be perfect but I prefer it to seeing obvious refereeing errors where tries are concerned. One flaw with Rugby League is the ref sending up the decision as a try or no try, the video ref then has to find evidence to overturn the original decision, saw one at the weekend where the outcome was incorrect in my opinion. Simply let the video ref make the decision based on what he sees, not influenced by what the ref on the field thinks he's seen.
Back to football, I`d like to see the offside rule changed, it's crazy when a goal is ruled out because a players hand or nose was in front of 'the line'. It should only apply to feet and legs. A more radical solution is to scrap the offside rule completely, or apply it only in the penalty area, the game would change but I think it would change for the better.
I like the sin-bin / yellow approach towards certain tackles in rugby. Both in terms of reducing the number of players one has for a period of time for certain offences to discourage the "tactical" yellow and to give TMO the time to look at something properly to decide if it merits red, so takes the heat out of having to make an immediate decision in certain situations.
Trouble is that adds another layer of complexity to a bunch of officials seemingly incapable of handling the current rules!
Couldn't agree more.
Let's keep football as the free flowing game it used to be.
Cheers,
Neil.
I can see the advantages of going back to the 'old days', but on balance I think having VAR is worthwhile. Whether it's rugby or football I hate to see a wrong refereeing decision that has a major influence on the outcome of a game although I`m the first to accept that refs have a v. difficult job and they will get things wrong.
Murkier you say? One opposition penalty awarded at Old Trafford in eight seasons. Onana not booked and sent off. Man Utd have been ‘lucky’ enough to get twelve home draws in a row across the cups - just think about that one. Foul on Rashford in last year’s League Cup Final wasn’t a foul and the goal that resulted from it was offside but wasn’t given.
Nowt murky about all that surely?
id agree the statement isnt great, not sure what they expect to achieve to be honest, klopp was relatively balanced after the game imo.
i believe the liverpool decision was a bigger f'up as it was utter incompetence rather than a judgement call by a referee who was standing right in front of walker and hwang when the challenge was made.
That’s not a judgement call, that’s cheating .
There wasn’t a soul in the ground ( including the players ) who didn’t think he was sending him off . The incompetence comes down to human error .
The other side of the coin was that the VAR man couldn’t wait to give Liverpool the goal , hence the speed the decision was reached .
You believe the Liverpool decision was bigger because you’re a Liverpool fan , same as I think City’s was bigger .
I think it's 62 matches since the blue half of Glasgow, TRFC, conceded a penalty in a league match, home or away. They've conceded several in European matches & in the Scottish Cup during that blemish-free league run.
BTW, I read somewhere that the currently-managerless TRFC has conceded fewer penalties at home since 2012 than they have had managers (supposedly 11 pens vs. 12 full-time/caretaker managers). I've not fact-checked it, though!
______
Jim.
dermot gallagher disagrees with you....
And the liverpool offside was an obvious lino error, i could see that before the replay, hence the decision was so quick...
Wait, what ?
Dermot Gallagher the ex ref ? The ex PGMOL fella ? That one ?
Shocked I am .
Issue for me is that these PGMOL people have never played football.
Pains me when you have to listen to people in general who have never played at any level just talking absolute waffle about football.
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Sounds a lot like TZ-UK …?
z
Just heard the audio for the VAR decision, what a shambles, no one sounds like they know what they are doing and doesn't sound like anyones in charge?
The audio is brilliant. The techie guy is calling it on side but the other guys are too dim to take in what he's telling them!
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Absolute morons, it’s like listening to kids on the school bus.
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Agreed. Professionals ?? I've $h1t 'em !!
Saka off with hamstring injury against Lens and will for sure miss the City game plus I guess the England games also
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