Thanks for this thread and more importantly the research. Great read.
In the link below... you want the second part, titled:
1952 Rolex Oyster Perpetual – the Everest connection
Professional Diver Nigel Band And The Unusual Rolex Sea-Dweller And Oyster Perpetual Models That Plumbed The Depths And Scaled The Heights
https://quillandpad.com/2020/11/25/p...d-the-heights/
Over the years the Everest team continued to hold regular five-yearly reunions to celebrate the event, sometimes at Pen-Y-Grwyd in Wales, where they had trained for the expedition, so Nigel Band grew up surrounded by family friends and acquaintances who were household names at the time.
On one occasion he took Tenzing Norgay’s wife into London to choose cassettes of “the latest pop music” for her family back home – Status Quo and Queen he remembers. He also recalls his mother turning up to collect him from boarding school one half-term “in a large blue Citroen estate, with Ed Hillary in the passenger seat.” This earned him considerable kudos with his incredulous classmates, but on the way home, “Ed offered to drive and promptly crashed the car while negotiating the slip road onto the M4 motorway.”
From these meetings he recalls Jan Morris (Times reporter on the 1953 expedition who very recently passed away, and James Morris at the time) giving a talk, leaning on the lectern, and intriguingly twirling her spectacles with one hand as she spoke, in stark contrast to the other members’ more formal presentations. And during a talk by Sir Edmund Hillary, one stalwart leaning over to another member and muttering “of course it wasn’t a Rolex he was wearing at the top, it was a Smiths . . . ”.
But that’s a topic for another article.
George Band rations Royal Geographical Society
This looks like a Rollie to me.
Every watch a story.
Agreed. Also I think the strap (especially the stitching) doesn't look like the one on Sir Ed's "Summit Smiths" on display in the musuem but does resemble that on the Rolexes (irrc).
Of course, this assumes that the straps haven't been changed! Pretty certain Hillary's hasn't been.
Yes, Band wore a Rolex 6098 on Everest in '53. ... And actually reading the article demonstrates that better than I ever could. Mind you, the bit about two tranches of Rolex is not bourne out by the RGS archives...
But I'm now absolutely certain that Mallory made it to the summit.
Last edited by M4tt; 26th November 2020 at 17:34.
Oddly, if you go to the Rolex Passion Report website you'll see that Philipp Stahl's most recents posts are about Rolex & Everest.
(Both are actually old posts "bumped" up to the top, seemingly unedited).
Unsurprisingly neither posts mention the fact that Rolex conceded to Smiths in that letter (a copy of which I emailed to Stahl, so I know he has the information!)
Also disappointingly neither article has been revised to include the news of Jan Morris' death.
Stahl leaves his earlier claim unmodified -- "it will always remain a mystery if Rolex was literally on the summit" -- despite new facts emerging.
It's not a mystery. They weren't. At least not for another decade.
Well, that's what you get from an unashamedly biased blog but it's now a matter of record that Smiths were first to the top; Stahl knows it and it is deceitful of him to re-post old material without emending it.
A crime of "passion", I suppose.
Change comes slowly, but it's good to see the wind slowly turning.
Actually, thinking about it I can only conclude it’s a good sign that old posts are being bumped up to the top unedited: any changes or new articles would have to reflect the latest information. So it’s a sign of him conceding to the recent research. It’ll be interesting to see if he puts up anything else on this subject or if the best he can do it repeat outdated and superseded findings.
Smiths did it. Rolex said as much and are now very careful in their advertising. You can bet that had they had a watch on the summit in ‘53 they’d have made as much of it as Omega did with the moon!
From Rolex's official Instagram account
If they'd been on the summit in '53 we'd never have heard the end of it, think Omega and the Moon only a decade and a half earlier.
One thing has been bugging me and it's this:
Stahl writes:
"Tenzings wife back then advised him not to take his Rolex to this 1953 Expedition. So again, after Lambert convinced Tenzing to join the British, he now had to make sure Tenzing was wearing a Rolex. I asked her why her husband was so pertinent… She explained to me that Raymond was in full believe Rolex, as genevan based, deserved it to be worn on top of a succesful ascent!
In honor of his friendship Tenzing decided to please Lambert, and did not take the “schmutz” she continued!
At first I thought, what’s a “schmutz”, so I asked her…she said her husband always said it like this to her. As we where talking german, the coin dropped and from “schmut”(German for dirty;)I explained her it was Smith, lol! 🙂"
Source: http://rolexpassionreport.com/919/th...-norgay-rolex/
See also post #30 here: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...23059-s20.html
This says that Tenzing had a "Smith" (sic) before the 1953 Expedition. He might well have had a Rolex from the Lambert's 1952 attempt, but Smiths had never sponsored or equipped an Everest team before they gifted the 13 watches (and 4 travel alarms clocks!) to the Hunt expedition.
13 wristwatches. Remember that number. Because there were 13 members of the Hunt party (Hunt, Evans, Band, Bourdillon, Gregory, Noyce, Pugh, Stobart, Ward, Westmacott, Wylie, Hillary, Lowe) plus two Sherpas (Sherpa Annullu and Tenzing) who seem to count in the official, i.e. wikipedia, tally .
I reckon that is one Smiths watch per man, given in early 1953 or at a push late '52.
So how Stahl reckons Tenzing had one before he joined the party is a mystery to me. Unless one of the 13 gave or lent him theirs during the expedition he never had one at all.
Stahl is an absolute fruitcake and quite the gammon-infused snowflake to boot. He is as mad as he is rich and has taken on the role of unofficial Rolex oracle in the hope the lies he tells (and believes) become true.
Smart guy with a serious amount of knowledge but he does get carried away and throws an entire Toys R Us out of his pram if ever questioned.
I can testify to that. I sent him a very polite email and got a rude one back.
Maybe he's not getting laid? Being Dutch I think he should roll a fat joint and chill out.
(I'm speaking in a personal capacity. My views may not reflect the official position of the Church of England.)
Thought this might be of interest.
Found this book in Harrods London, but at £700 it stayed there!
£700 for a book that looks secondhand (unless that is fake patina?)
Re the final pic: it wasn't "Sir Edmund Hillary's successful expedition" (1. he wasn't "Sir" then and 2. it was John Hunt's expedition -- and he wasn't a knighted at that point either.)
Also, the watches issued to the expedition were not prototype Explorers.
Still, at least they don't say a Rolex made it to the summit . . . .
Mythbusting: 3 Persistent Patek Philippe And Rolex Myths Debunked (23. 1. 2021)
https://quillandpad.com/2021/01/23/m...yths-debunked/
About a 3rd of the way down the page...
"Myth 3 (also featuring the illustrious coronet): Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay were wearing Rolex watches when they reached the peak of Mount Everest in 1953"
Also check, in the comments below the article...
James Dowling says:
January 24, 2021 at 4:29 pm
I have definitive proof about Tenzing Norway’s watch on Everest. Feel free to drop me a note
Every watch a story.
Thanks and a nice interesting balanced read though it travels much the same path as the OP.
As an agnostic, this is still fascinating, I am always amazed by the amount of material that can still unearthed about an event that has been researched so often. Hats off tp the OP, the enthusiasm is obvious.
"Everything that Rolex subsequently produces in terms of advertising and communications is hamstrung by the fact that although 13 Oyster Perpetuals did go up Everest on that expedition, including two on the wrists of Charles Evans and Tom Bourdillon, who made the first attempt, turning back just 70 meters from the peak due to oxygen problems, none of them made it to the top."
I think that where the photos show a team member wearing two watches the obvious implication is that they were wearing a Rolex and Smiths -- each climber was issued with both, after all.
- - - Updated - - -
Ooh a naughty reply!
"Someone needs to tell Philipp Stahl at Rolex Passion Report about the letters in the BHI. (There are, after all more letters in “BHI” than in “BS”.)"
Well I never!
OK, OK, I did.
His definitive proof is slightly less definitive than one might expect:
https://forums.timezone.com/index.ph...=1487153&rid=0
Sadly, he clearly hasn't been through the RGS pictures. If he had, he'd not be making the claim he is.Originally Posted by Dowling
Mr. Dowling didn't actually say in the comments section that it was a Rolex, he may have changed his mind since his 2010 post on Timezone.
I do hope he replies to Matt's comment with some actual,definitive proof, and not the bumf in his old post...
Wow just read this whole thread from start to the present, I’ll not say finish.
Well done M4tt splendid research and write up.
I’ve been off here for two years or more.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Big business marketing is almost as full of smoke and mirrors as government policy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"Hoewel het altijd een vraag zal blijven of Rolex ook letterlijk op de top was, waren de Oyster Perpetual modellen onderdeel van basisuitrusting destijds; dat staat vast."
("Although it will always remain a question whether Rolex was literally on top, the Oyster Perpetual models were part of basic equipment at the time; that's for sure.")
http://rolexpassionreport.com/5722/t...nzing-edition/
Niet "altijd". Wij hebben het antwoord.
(Not always. We have the answer.)
Last edited by Rev-O; 2nd August 2021 at 17:55.
A thought occurred to me while reading Hillary's account of reaching the summit and his use of the word "carried" ("I carried your watch") rather than the more common "wore" or even "took".
Here's the chapter he wrote in Hunt's book:
"I had carried [sic] my camera, loaded with colour film, inside my shirt to keep it warm, so I now produced it and got Tenzing to pose on top for me, waving his axe on which was string of flags -- United Nations, British, Nepalese and Indian [....] I had a lot of difficulty in holding the camera steady in my clumsy gloves."
I wonder if he "carried" the watch in a shirt or pocket or even attached to the camera. This would keep it warm and be more accessible than looking under thick gloves or mittens.
P.S. even if Norgay was wearing a Rolex we know that Hillary was first on to the summit.
How? Because in his 1955 autobiography ('Tiger of the Snows') Norgay said so:
"A little below the summit Hillary and I stopped. We looked up. Then we went on. The rope that joined us was thirty feet long, but I held most of it in loops in my hand, there was only six feet between us. I was not thinking of “first” and “second”. I did not say to myself, “There is a golden apple up there. I will push Hillary aside and run for it.” We went on slowly, steadily. And then we were there. Hillary stepped on top first. And I stepped up after him.”
And this:
"In an interview with Scotland on Sunday for the 50th anniversary in 2003, Hillary explained what had happened: “We set off at 6.30am, first light, me in the lead, Tenzing behind on a tight rope. We never discussed who would be first up. It really did not matter to me, as the entire expedition was very much a team affair, but I suspect Tenzing was quite deferential to what he saw as the Sahib. So I got to the top first, with him just 10ft or so behind.”
Lots have watches have been to the top but Smiths was the first. Maybe Rolex was second by a few seconds. Maybe not. But Smiths was first.
The "Rolex on Everest" bandwagon continues in yesterday's (10 April 2021) Telegraph newspaper, which has a "Telegraph Time" advertorial:
This piece pointedly does not claim that Rolexes were the first watches on the summit of Everest, or even that anyone on the expedition was actually wearing Rolexes, although the implication is strong.Rolex dubbed the line 'Explorer' because the original is based on the timepieces supplied to the team ascending Everest in 1953. Rolex has always associated itself with those who achieve feats of derring-do and the expedition led by Col. John Hunt, which included Tenzing Norgay and Sir Edmund Hillary, who reached the summit on 29 May 1953, proved that the Rolex Oyster could survive one of the world's toughest challenges.
A nice article by a good friend that links Smiths with the first ascent of Everest. He’s no Smiths fan (or expert) by any means so it’s a great indication this is now the mainstream view.
https://www.thewristorian.com/post/w...-s-dakar-rally
Last edited by HookedSeven; 23rd April 2021 at 18:45.
"Some watches, like the Omega Speedmaster and Seiko “Pogue” have ventured into zero-g territory, while the Rolex Submariner and the Doxa SUB300 handled benthic business in the ocean depths. Heuers and Daytonas dominated racetracks. Explorer IIs went spelunking past stalactites and the humble Smiths conquered Everest. Each of these timepieces is now eternally tied to the history-making event in which it participated, and rightfully so."
Nice turn of phrase there.
Rolex have spent nearly sixty years advertising the fact that their watches were used on the 1953 attempt without actually saying that their watches were the first on the summit.
If they had no intention to let people believe that their watches were the first on the summit, why don’t they make more of the 52 expedition?
I was listening to a very well-known podcast the other day, and the guests were talking about the watch that was worn on the first ascent of Everest. You can guess the rest. I had to skip that bit as it was annoying after reading this thread.
Thank you.
BW,
Mike
OF are getting in on the act too :-)
https://omegaforums.net/threads/what...everest.29349/